Maritime Republics with a foothold in Spain

The Italian Maritime Republics, especially Venice and Genoa, managed to establish colonies and trading posts throughout the Eastern Mediterranean in the 12th and 13th centuries.

My question: Was there any chance that such bridgeheads could have been gained in Moorish Spain and/or Maghreb?
I am referring to a scenario where the political situation in the East is much more stable, thus taking much of the opportunity to pocket islands and cities with impunity.
I know that there have been actions of Genoa in this area, but they seem rather short-lived in hindsight.

So do you think this only did not happen because the much more tasty treats in the East were up for grabs; or was there a deeper reason preventing this?
 
While it is possible for perhaps Pisa or Genoa to set up trading colonies in North Africa and Al-Andalus (perhaps in the location where Gibraltar is now would be the best), sooner or later the Iberian powers such as Castile, Aragon or Portugal are going to expel them out once the Muslims are emasculated.
 
Wasn't a big part of the reason the Italians established trading posts in the east because there was a lot more trade going on in the east? Remember the Italians were basically the European terminus of the Silk Roads, and a lot of their trade was in goods from much further afield than the Eastern Mediterranean, that was just where they got ahold of them.

Unfortunately, while the Iberian peninsula is rich in natural resources, there's no extremely lucrative luxury goods... Is there anything produced in the Western Mediterranean that could be as profitable? Especially considering that any raw natural resources, etc, must be shipped in huge quantities, whereas the spices and silk and other luxuries from the east were hugely profitable, even if you only had a single ship loaded with them.

It doesn't seem that there's much need for "Spain" (I use the title collectively) as a trading hub until after the discovery of the new world -- which is historically when the balance of lucrative trade switched from the eastern Mediterranean to the western Mediterranean. But the problem is, OTL, by the time the New World was discovered, Castile was already pretty centralized.

So a possible scenario comes to mind wherein the Iberian Peninsula continues to be severely politically disunited. Maybe the Reconquista is much, much less successful (what if the Pope required Spanish knights to join the Crusades in the Holy Land, saying "Jerusalem is more important than Granada!"? Would any of the Spanish knights even go? It seems like the same kind of knights that would go on any crusade, which is to say lord's 2nd and 3rd sons, etc, would join whatever crusade was on regardless of "nationalist" feelings which may not even exist) -- so Columbus's expedition is done in the name of another country. After trade with the new world begins, the Iberian peninsula becomes a sort of "Caribbean in Europe," by which I mean that lots of foreign powers use it as a stopoff place for their trade goods, and their navies. It's the closest part of Europe to the New World, so it's a perfect place to stop off, and it's ruled by all these small little insignificant kingdoms, and the Christians are still squabbling with the Muslims (it also might become sort of like the Balkans if the Christians are unable to get the Muslims out for the foreseeable future) (also the Reformation ITTL, if it even happens, would be something crazy -- no Hapsburg Spain).

So all the major powers (England, France, and also the Italians/Germans to a lesser extent -- what happens to the Netherlands ITTL? Scandinavia? If it's easier for further-east countries to have a neutral stopover point in Spain, will there be more colonizers?) have the local kings make them concessions to use their ports, and over time these "concessions" become more like territories of the "Mother Empire." Whenever the major powers go to war, there is significant proxy fighting in the Spanish mainland as allied kingdoms go to war.

On the whole it would basically be like the rest of Europe colonizing Spain. When allying with Christians, they could use the excuse that they're helping their brothers of the faith against the Muslim threat. When they're allying with the Muslims, they can say that the economic realities of the situation demand allying with Muslims against their fellow Christians.

Anyway, I've got to go, but there's a few ideas, hope they're interesting...
 
The Italian Maritime Republics, especially Venice and Genoa, managed to establish colonies and trading posts throughout the Eastern Mediterranean in the 12th and 13th centuries.

My question: Was there any chance that such bridgeheads could have been gained in Moorish Spain and/or Maghreb?
I am referring to a scenario where the political situation in the East is much more stable, thus taking much of the opportunity to pocket islands and cities with impunity.
I know that there have been actions of Genoa in this area, but they seem rather short-lived in hindsight.

So do you think this only did not happen because the much more tasty treats in the East were up for grabs; or was there a deeper reason preventing this?
As i remember genoese is very similar to lengua d'oc i think genoa and aragon can have peaceful coexistence in iberia but not with the northern iberian kingdoms,i think.
 
As i remember genoese is very similar to lengua d'oc i think genoa and aragon can have peaceful coexistence in iberia but not with the northern iberian kingdoms,i think.

Not if they have competing interests over the islands although I might seem them cooperating should the islands remain under Muslim control.
 

Art

Monthly Donor
I just had a thought...

i wonder if you could get a history in which El Cid Campeador survived, and made Valencia into a "Maritime Republic"/trading power in it's own right. I REALLY like El Cid, in that he could get Muslims as well as christians on his side. I personally HATE that you get Castille as the dominate power and uniter of Spain, they were the Normans of their area, and I really, REALLY hate Normans. Anything to get a gentler, kinder, and wiser Spain would be GREAT!!!:D
 
One of the only ways this is possible really is if 'Spain' is divided and weak, and the Merchant Republics get treaty ports. Consider India or China in the 18-19th centuries. Central authority was weak, and so the colonial powers nabbed whatever they could to ensuer their interests.

However, the question here is what interests? As has already been pointed out, medieval Spain was pretty worthless to the Eastern Mediterranean powers. If Columbus sails west in the name of, say, Genoa or Venice, then they'd have a reason to colonise Iberia.

This, however, would require Spain to be fragmented for far longer, and probably far poorer. A fragmented Spain, however, would be unsuitable to a nascent French royalty. They'd probably try and invade or put a puppet king on the throne. Think Francis I's invasion of Italy- he didn't want so many disparate states on his doorstep so he tried to solidify them and get them under French hegemony.

A divided Spain, therefore, is almost impossible because of its proximity to Central Europe, and any power vacuum would be seized upon by the other kings and princes.

If, however, a divided Spain is needed for the Maritime Republics to etablish a presense there, and a divided Spain is either very unlikely or impossible, then they most likely won't obtain any lastnig presense. They'll either be blocked by a unified Spain or blocked out by a larger por such as France.
 
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