Maritime Republics in Northern Europe circa 800 CE

Would have been possible to have established any powerful maritime city-states from anywhere between Ireland and Scandinavia? Places like Swedish trading centre of Birka located in Lake Malaren?
 

PhilippeO

Banned
in the age of Vikings ? Vikings would certainly disturb trade, so it difficult to create city-states.


Kingdom of Dublin might be considered city-states, its quite small.
 
I suspect the cities were simply too small to play an analogous role. If you ggavve a place like Birka, Dublin, York or Hedeby the opportunity to dominate its surrounding countryside without being a royal residence, then you could get somewhere. That would giove you the requisite population numbers.
 
Kingdom of Dublin might be considered city-states, its quite small.
Don't see why not, Venice one of the major city states ended up owning large swathes of land inland and along the Adriatic coast. To keep it a true city state and from expanding into Ireland though you'd probably need some strongish neighbouring states to balance things out by being strong enough to avoid annexation themselves but weak enough to not be able to annex Dublin.
 
Would have been possible to have established any powerful maritime city-states from anywhere between Ireland and Scandinavia? Places like Swedish trading centre of Birka located in Lake Malaren?

This is gonna require an early point of divergence. I'm thinking Roman times. The Scandinavians were pretty much savages up until the time period you're talking about. If you want maritime republics in Scandinavia by that point, you'll need to have the Romans come up there, colonize the place and then remaining there long enough to make a significant impact. Now, unless I am mistaken, Scandinavia does appear in Roman chronicles, so I guess you could start there. Them Roman Emperor weren't precisely the most rational actors, so you could very well have one of them decide to go North, as to speak. Once Western Rome collapses, a much earlier Christian civilization can then arise among the Roman ruins in Scandinavia.

That would be awesome.
 
in the age of Vikings ? Vikings would certainly disturb trade, so it difficult to create city-states.


Kingdom of Dublin might be considered city-states, its quite small.

And yet, they would settle in places Dublin and York and turn them into interregional centres of trade. Let's not forget a lot of cities Scandinavia, the Baltic and northern Russia owe their very existence to the Vikings.
 
This is gonna require an early point of divergence. I'm thinking Roman times. The Scandinavians were pretty much savages up until the time period you're talking about. If you want maritime republics in Scandinavia by that point, you'll need to have the Romans come up there, colonize the place and then remaining there long enough to make a significant impact. Now, unless I am mistaken, Scandinavia does appear in Roman chronicles, so I guess you could start there. Them Roman Emperor weren't precisely the most rational actors, so you could very well have one of them decide to go North, as to speak. Once Western Rome collapses, a much earlier Christian civilization can then arise among the Roman ruins in Scandinavia.

That would be awesome.

I think its doable on the Scandinavian's own terms. By the 700-800's, the Norse were looking for places that could support their numbers better than the soil of their own homeland. They certainly need an early POD, but rather some regional centre would need to have an earlier stranglehold on outside trade before they begin colonising other parts of northern Europe. Maybe a century or two before the Viking Age. Then they could exert influence over the other Aettr of Scandinavia.
 
I think its doable on the Scandinavian's own terms. By the 700-800's, the Norse were looking for places that could support their numbers better than the soil of their own homeland. They certainly need an early POD, but rather some regional centre would need to have an earlier stranglehold on outside trade before they begin colonising other parts of northern Europe. Maybe a century or two before the Viking Age. Then they could exert influence over the other Aettr of Scandinavia.

Perhaps the Pommeranian coast and Saxony?
 
Ireland and Mann are no gos. They're remote from any worthwhile traderoutes. In Britain it would have to be something on the east coast of England and even there it isn't ideal.
I'd place such a place most ideally in Frisia maybe. Or yeah, maybe a Gotland state develops- such a small island would count as a city state right? Or on the Danish isles, Copenhagen or somesuch.
 
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