Maria Therese fall from power

Could Therese fall from power if Prussia had won more from the war of Austrian succession.
No, probably not. However, if the Austrian Succession goes differently we could end up with Saxony and Bavaria controlling a large portion of the Austrian lands with France taking the lower Netherlands and an Independent Hungary. This would leave Prussia weaker and the Habsburgs in control of not even all of Modern day Austria+the Czech Republic.
 
I roughly agree with PoeFacedKilla, maybe with some small changes in details.

The position of Maria Theresia was quite strong in Hungary (-Croatia), she probably would be allowed to retain the hereditary Austrian lands too.

Bavaria could gain The Lands of the Bohemian Crown.

Saxony could be rewarded with the Southern Netherlands (won't be French).

France gains Lorraine & Bar directly and a Spanish Bourbon (Bourbon-Parma) in Tuscany too. Maria Theresia now will have too compensate Francis Stephen from her own lands (joint monarchs?), unless either Saxony or Savoy receive nothing, then that could go to Francis Stephen.

Savoy might pitch in too and could realize their longtime ambition of gaining the duchy of Milan.
 
Wasn't Saxony primarily interested in Silesian lands to gain a corridor to Poland?

Probably, but IIRC Prussia already controlled most of Silesia and/or had designs on the same territory; and weren't they fighting on the same side.

Otherwise, if Saxony would receive the desired Silesian gains, then this might also solve the compensation for Francis Stephen issue, he might be assigned the Southern Netherlands.
 
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Razgriz 2K9

Banned
I can't find sources proving or disproving this Kuld. But in my opinion, in both the First and Second Silesian Wars, Saxony supported Prussia (in 1) and Austria (in 2), both of which anted Silesia...I don't see Saxony gaining Silesia in this war I'm afraid.

In the case of Janprimus...I doubt Maria Theresa would even get Austria, since Charles Albert, as HRE, laid claim to all of the Hapsburg lands within the HRE. While he may be willing to part with the Austrian Netherlands, I doubt he would be willing to let Bohemia and Austria out of his grasp. Still, amusingly, Hungary would still be ruled by Maria Theresa, at least that's what I assume...despite it probably making a donkey out of me.
 
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@ Razgriz 2K9: regarding Hungary(-Croatia) Maria Theresia had a claim on the throne of Hungary and was accepted by the Hungarian magnates.
Even in a worst case scenario Austria would have had allies and even the allies of Bavaria, like France, wouldn't want to replace Austria by a too powerful Bavaria. Heck the other princes in the Empire, including Prussia, Saxony, Hanover etc. all wouldn't want Bavaria to gain too much too, so ironically they might ensure the Austrian Hereditary lands for Maria Theresia and Francis Stephen, however in this scenario the later house of Habsburg-Lorraine will probably become more focused on Hungary.

I still forgot one territory controlled by the Habsburgs at the start of the war the duchy of Parma and Piacenza. IOTL at the end of the war of the Austrian succession, it was ceded to the Spanish Bourbon Philip, count of Chinchón, however ITTL he will succeed in Tuscany.

Well if the Southern Netherlands end up with one of the victors, then Francis Stephen could get Parma & Piacenza instead. Either way in a worse scenario for the Habsburgs, they might be forced to compensate Francis Stephen with one of their own territories.
Also I doubt that any of the Powers would want Sardinia-Savoy to get Milan and Parma & Piacenza, or to have Spanish Bourbons in Naples-Sicily, Tuscany and Parma & Piacenza. However if they also want to prevent a French Southern Netherlands, then they might have to accept another Bourbon candidate in Parma & Piacenza. Initially Philip would get Parma & Piacenza, until he succeeds in Tuscany, at which point his younger brother Louis (OTL cardinal-infante Luis) gets Parma & Piacenza. Elisabeth Farnese would be very pleased with her sons, Charles as king of Naples & Sicily, Philip as grand duke of Tuscany and Louis as duke of Parma & Piacenza.

Finally this would open up a spot for a Prince-Elector, since though the number of Electors is brought down, but at the same time the problem of two Wittelsbach electors persists.
Candidates for an electorate could be the duke of Württemberg or ironically the Austrian Habsburgs or, if Francis Stephen gets the Southern Netherlands, it could first be granted to him.
Anyway others like Prussia, Saxony, Hanover etc. will want a new balance of power in the Empire and they all won't welcome Bavaria becoming more powerful than Austria was before the war.
 
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Razgriz 2K9

Banned
@ Razgriz 2K9: regarding Hungary(-Croatia) Maria Theresia had a claim on the throne of Hungary and was accepted by the Hungarian magnates.
Even in a worst case scenario Austria would have had allies and even the allies of Bavaria, like France, wouldn't want to replace Austria by a too powerful Bavaria. Heck the other princes in the Empire, including Prussia, Saxony, Hanover etc. all wouldn't want Bavaria to gain too much too, so ironically they might ensure the Austrian Hereditary lands for Maria Theresia and Francis Stephen, however in this scenario the later house of Habsburg-Lorraine will probably become more focused on Hungary.

I still forgot one territory controlled by the Habsburgs at the start of the war the duchy of Parma and Piacenza. IOTL at the end of the war of the Austrian succession, it was ceded to the Spanish Bourbon Philip, count of Chinchón, however ITTL he will succeed in Tuscany.

Well if the Southern Netherlands end up with one of the victors, then Francis Stephen could get Parma & Piacenza instead. Either way in a worse scenario for the Habsburgs, they might be forced to compensate Francis Stephen with one of their own territories.
Also I doubt that any of the Powers would want Sardinia-Savoy to get Milan and Parma & Piacenza, or to have Spanish Bourbons in Naples-Sicily, Tuscany and Parma & Piacenza.

Finally this would open up a spot for a Prince-Elector, since though the number of Electors is brought down, but at the same time the problem of two Wittelsbach electors persists.
Candidates for an electorate could be the duke of Württemberg or ironically the Austrian Habsburgs or, if Francis Stephen gets the Southern Netherlands, it could first be granted to him.
Anyway others like Prussia, Saxony, Hanover etc. will want a new balance of power in the Empire and they all won't welcome Bavaria becoming more powerful than Austria was before the war.

Perhaps so, but even then, I doubt they would allow Maria to be Queen Regnant though...Probably me thinking that these rulers were quite sexist.
 
Perhaps so, but even then, I doubt they would allow Maria to be Queen Regnant though...Probably me thinking that these rulers were quite sexist.

IOTL Maria Theresia was Queen Regnant, well technically she was King of Hungary and later Bohemia.
In fact though she was devoted wife, she only tolerated a supportive role of her husband in state affairs (in some cases, like finances, much needed); in some ways you could compare Maria Theresia with Victoria (in terms of separating the role of a monarch and her position as a wife within her marriage).
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
Ah, but we digress...

So, assuming a total Prussian-allied victory, Bavaria gets Bohemia, Prussia gets Silesia, Saxony gets...the Southern Netherlands...and Sardinia-Piedmont gets Milan, how would this affect the powers that be long term?

France would still be gunning to gain the Southern Netherlands, which of course would piss off the British. At the same time, with that Personal Union between Saxony & Poland-Lithuania hanging over their heads, I can imagine Prussia would want to break that union. Austria would want revenge on all who crossed her. And what of the colonial game and that of the Mughals and Marathas, the latter of which was on the rise.
 
Probably, but IIRC Prussia already controlled most of Silesia and/or had designs on the same territory; and weren't they fighting on the same side.
They were fighting on the same side, i read once that one of the reasons Fredrick II launched his preemptive attack towards Breslau was to grab it before their Saxon allies did and surpassed them permanently.
 
Ah, but we digress...

So, assuming a total Prussian-allied victory, Bavaria gets Bohemia, Prussia gets Silesia, Saxony gets...the Southern Netherlands...and Sardinia-Piedmont gets Milan, how would this affect the powers that be long term?

France would still be gunning to gain the Southern Netherlands, which of course would piss off the British. At the same time, with that Personal Union between Saxony & Poland-Lithuania hanging over their heads, I can imagine Prussia would want to break that union. Austria would want revenge on all who crossed her. And what of the colonial game and that of the Mughals and Marathas, the latter of which was on the rise.

How about a deal between Saxony and Prussia?

Prussia gets Netherlands and Saxony Silesia. In exchange Saxony votes for Prussian ruler as HREmperor.

Could it pass?
 
How about a deal between Saxony and Prussia?

Prussia gets Netherlands and Saxony Silesia. In exchange Saxony votes for Prussian ruler as HREmperor.

Could it pass?

What would Prussia do with the Netherlands?:confused:

And even if Saxony gets Silesia instead of Prussia, why would they vote for the Margrave of Brandenburg as HRE? I should think the Saxon Elector would vote for Karl VII rather (it is his brother in law [their wives were both daughters of Josef I]).
 
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