Maria Theresa Marries Fredrick the Great

what i was going at when i started this was that Theresa's husband Francis I dies during the course of the War of Austrian Succession say around 1743. The wars goes worse than normal and is forced to marry Fredrick. lets say her first son Joesph dies from some childhood illness which was common back then. This way France has been involved in some of the War and most likely the 7yrs war will happen between Britain and France. Which will as a result bankrupt France causing the Revolution and Napoleon

I think what we're saying is that a marriage between MT and FtG is not possible due to the reasons described at length. It would be a little bit like marrying Queen Victoria to Napoleon III.
 
got it. Can anyone think of any important Heiress in Northern Germany during FtG reign?? I want to have a timeline where a very powerful Prussia faces of against Napoleon and the Prussia that he faced was way to small to be much of a challenge
 

General Zod

Banned
I started a thread about this a few months ago, but Susano shot down my idea pretty quickly. :p

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=1658367#post1658367

I think this is an interesting idea, and in my mind I had it roughly leading to a struggle for balance of dynastic power in Europe. :D Prussia-Austria, France-Spain, Saxony-Poland, Great Britain-Hanover, etc.

Ah, but that particular shootdown by Susano is groundless, as I replied in that thread. An Emperor/King or Empress/Queen Regnant is the fount of honor and is perfectly empowered to rename his or her House and/or rearrange its titles in whatever form he or she has a barely plausible claim to, as he or she damn pleases, notwithstanding normal heraldic rules for the transmission of titles and noble surnames. Maria Teresa and Frederick sign a joint decree by which all their descendants shall hold the surname "Hapsburg-Hohenzollern" and everyone is fine.
 

Susano

Banned
Ah, but that particular shootdown by Susano is groundless, as I replied in that thread. An Emperor/King or Empress/Queen Regnant is the fount of honor and is perfectly empowered to rename his or her House and/or rearrange its titles as he or she damn pleases, notwithstanding normal heraldic rules for the transmission of titles and noble surnames. Maria Teresa and Frederick sign a joint decree by which all their descendants shall hold the surname "Hapsburg-Hohenzollern" and everyone is fine.

It doesnt really work that way, though. Sure, they could draw up an act saying so, but what matters is publcic perception. Given the difference in standing between Lorraine and Habsburg, Habsburg-Lorraine (and with the -Lorriane part mostly ovelrooked, too) worked, but I dont think it would with Hohenzollern. For that matter, why would Frederick agree to it?
 

General Zod

Banned
It doesnt really work that way, though. Sure, they could draw up an act saying so, but what matters is publcic perception. Given the difference in standing between Lorraine and Habsburg, Habsburg-Lorraine (and with the -Lorriane part mostly ovelrooked, too) worked, but I dont think it would with Hohenzollern. For that matter, why would Frederick agree to it?

In order to get a better claim to the Imperial throne for their descendents.

It worked fine for the British regnant House in 1917. Saxe-Coburgo-Gotha = Windsor by decree and everybody accepted it. This shall be the by far most powerful House in the Empire and one of the most premiment in Europe. Sure they can make public perception in Europe accept it, esp. if the Maria Theresa/Frederick couple are perceived as successful charismatic monarchs.
 
In order to get a better claim to the Imperial throne for their descendents.

It worked fine for the British regnant House in 1917. Saxe-Coburgo-Gotha = Windsor by decree and everybody accepted it. This shall be the by far most powerful House in the Empire and one of the most premiment in Europe. Sure they can make public perception in Europe accept it, esp. if the Maria Theresa/Frederick couple are perceived as successful charismatic monarchs.

But that's irrelevant. Frederick would have to give up succession to the Prussian Throne, would be hated and reviled by the Prussians, and would spend the rest of his days playing with toy soldiers in some palace in Vienna. It does nothing for him, and really does nothing for Maria Theresa either. It certainly doesn't merge Prussia and the Austrian domains. All it means is that Maria Theresa has removed a talented prince from the Prussian succession which makes things easier for her.
 
what if they have two sons one becomes king of Prussia and the other takes up the Hapsburg name and rules Austria. it would kind of be similar to when Charles V split his realm between his son and brother. This way they enter an alliance and potentialy the Prussian and Austrian families merge at a later date.
 

General Zod

Banned
It would. Its just unlikely to happen. I cant see Frederick being willing to have the House of Hohenzollern be absorbed by the House of Habsburg...

It depends. Frederick might just as easily think of his House taking over the Habsburg domain without firing a shot. After all, it shall be HIS children who sat on the throne. Maria Teresa gets to think the same from her PoV, so it's a win-win situation. The only real difficulty is the religious issue.
 
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