How should I organize my updates?

  • Year-by-year covering all of Europe (or at least what is relevant to the TL at the moment)

    Votes: 11 73.3%
  • Decade by decade but only covering a certain geographic area (i.e. 1510s in Iberian Peninsula)

    Votes: 4 26.7%

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
XXIX: A death at Ludlow and stuff
“Prince Arthur’s last few years were spent mostly in the sickbed. He seems to have contracted what was probably tuberculosis sometime after the birth of his sons in 1510, but the disease would not truly begin to ail him until 1512.”
From The Tudors: Part II by Beverley McClain​



“In this year fifteen hundred and thirteen died the most noble and gracious Lord Arthur, Prince of Wales, at the castle at Ludlow. He was a sound and Godly man to the end, in his last hours calling forth his wife and children and bestowing on them his blessing.”
Contemporary account of the death of Arthur Tudor, Prince​
of Wales in June 1513.​



“Katherine must have mourned her husband deeply. She and Arthur had no doubt been drawn together over the years of their marriage by their shared intellectual interests, and their shared grief over the many child losses that they experienced. Notably, Arthur never openly kept a mistress nor did he leave any known illegitimate children. Still, Arthur’s letters to Katherine were simply cordial rather than affectionate and Katherine characterized their relationship as one of minds rather than hearts or bodies, though the frequency of her pregnancies might hint otherwise. When Arthur died, he left his entire library of books and manuscripts to Katherine [1] and she, by all accounts, seems to have treasured and preserved these until the end of her own days.”
From The Pomegranate Princess by Sonya Burris​

[1] In addition to what was left to Katherine as a widow per her and Arthur’s marriage contract, which certainly wouldn’t include personal items like books and manuscripts.



“Henry VII was heartbroken to learn of his eldest son’s death. He had pinned all his hopes for the future of the Tudor dynasty on Arthur, and once Arthur was gone the hope for the dynasty seemed to be gone as well. It was only the presence of Arthur’s children, his twin sons Edward and Edmund and his infant daughter Mary, that comforted the King in his final year.”
From The Red and White Rose: A History of the House of
Tudor by Shane Rooney​



“King Henry had been suffering from seasonal complaints of ‘ague’ since 1505. After Prince Arthur died, this affliction increased sharply in severity. Elizabeth seems to have been a devoted nurse to her husband, being constantly at his side from spring 1513 onwards. She was no doubt herself devastated by the loss of her eldest son and found much joy in her grandchildren, through both Arthur and Henry of York, as well as her relationship with her daughters-in-law. Elizabeth was especially close with Katherine, Princess of Wales and Anne, Duchess of York after her youngest daughter and child Mary departed for her marriage in France in autumn 1514.”
From Mother of the Dynasty by Marian Price​



“Following his father’s death, no time was wasted in proclaiming the three year old Edward to be the new Prince of Wales. Henry VII had not just ended nearly thirty years of civil war only for such to break out again on his death, and he wanted to be sure that the Duke of York accepted the ascension of his nephew to the throne. Henry of York did, of course, accept Edward’s status as Prince of Wales, likely not in small part due to the important role that he expected to play in Edward’s regency.

Traditionally the Prince of Wales had resided at Ludlow Castle, but with it having seen the recent death of his father Edward was kept in London with his mother and siblings. He and Edmund, who had been titled Duke of Richmond when his brother became Prince of Wales, spent their days running about the halls and courtyards of Richmond Palace, trailed by their nursemaids and their mother and, usually, their grandmother Elizabeth of York as well. Princess Katherine, now called the Dowager Princess of Wales, occupied herself much with her children, especially her two sons, in the aftermath of her husband’s death. The court that she and Arthur had held at Ludlow was disbanded, and so she found herself with little role or responsibility, at least until her father-in-law died and her son became king. Even then, Katherine continued to take a hands-on approach to rearing her three children, personally assisting them in their translations of Latin and Greek and possibly commissioning a treatise on education, De instructionae personae christianae [1], from renowned Spanish scholar and humanist Juan Luis Vives.”
From The Red and White Rose: A History of the House of
Tudor by Shane Rooney​

[1] Dedicated IOTL and ITTL to Katherine.



“This year died at Richmond Palace Henry Tudor, King of England and France and Lord of Ireland.”
Entry in an anonymous Tudor chronicle recording the death​
of King Henry VII in May 1514.​



“The King is to be crowned at Westminster before the end of summer. I knew this day would come and yet I find myself unprepared. Edward is of such a tender age yet. It pains me to think of what his days will be like, growing into a man with the weight of the crown on his head. This throne [1] has not been kind to child kings in the past [2]. Pray for your grandson, my father. Pray that he may grow into a just and Christian ruler in the mold of his grandsire.”
Letter from Katherine of Aragon to her father King Ferdinand​
II, dated 27 May 1514.​

[1] The English throne.
[2] Henry III, Richard II, Henry VI...Katherine’s not wrong here.



Henry VIII in Parliament.jpg

Page from the so-called Wriothesley Psalter. The psalter was commissioned by a courtier
in the later half of the 1510s to celebrate the ascension of Edward VI to the throne and was
given as a gift to the young king. In typical medieval fashion, this scene shows Edward as a
grown man enthroned before Parliament, though he was only 4 years old when he became king.​
 
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Katherine is not wrong indeed. Henry of York had better marry - if he hasn't already - for the sake of the dynasty, given how long it's going to be before Edward and Edmund can father children of their own..
 
Katherine is not wrong indeed. Henry of York had better marry - if he hasn't already - for the sake of the dynasty, given how long it's going to be before Edward and Edmund can father children of their own..
Henry is married! He married Anne de La Tour d’Auvergne in...1507? I’ll have to consult my notes but they’ve been married for some time now and have a daughter, Margaret, who was born in 1512.
 
XXX: Family Trees circa 1515
Thought it would be appropriate to update family trees...I've changed things up in the Jagiellon and Aviz lines a little bit.



HOUSE OF HABSBURG
Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1459, r. 1483-1501, d. 1501) m. a) Mary, Duchess of Burgundy (b. 1457, r. 1477-1482, d. 1482) in 1476, had issue; b) Bianca Maria Sforza (b. 1473) in 1494, had no issue
1a) Philip of Austria, Duke of Burgundy (b. 1478, r. 1482-1495, d. 1495)​
2a) Margaret of Austria, Duchess of Burgundy and Queen of the Romans (b. July 1480, r. from 1495) m. Charles of Guelders, King of the Romans (previously Duke of Guelders; b. 1467) in 1497, has issue​
1) Mary of Burgundy, Princess of Portugal (b. September 1498) m. Infante João, Prince of Portugal (b. 1497) in 1515, has no issue​
2) Philip of Burgundy, Count of Charolais (b. April 1500) eng. Catherine of the Palatinate (b. 1499)​
3) Catherine of Burgundy (b. February 1502) eng. Stephen Jagiellon of Hungary and Bohemia (b. September 1502)​
4) Isabelle of Burgundy (b. August 1503)​
5) John of Burgundy, Count of Hainaut (b. October 1504)​
6) Agnes of Burgundy (b. March 1507)​
3a) Francis of Austria (b. 1481, d. 1481)​

---

HOUSE OF TRASTÁMARA
Isabella I, Queen of Castile (b. 1451, r. from 1474, d. 1507) m. Ferdinand II, King of Aragon (b. 1453, r. from 1479) in 1469, has issue
1) Isabel of Aragon and Castile, Princess of Portugal (b. 1470, d. 1503) m. Afonso, Prince of Portugal (b. 1475, d. 1491) in 1490, had no issue​
2) Juan of Aragon and Castile, Prince of Asturias and Girona (b. 1478, d. 1499) m. Giovanna III, Queen of Naples (b. 1478, d. 1504) in 1497, had issue​
1) Ferdinand VI, King of Castile (b. 1498) m. Magdalena of Navarre (b. 1494) in 1512, has issue​
1) Carlos, Prince of Viana (b. and d. 1514)​
2) Charles IV, King of Naples (b. 1500) eng. Leonor of Portugal (b. 1498)​
3) Juana of Aragon and Castile, Queen of Portugal (b. 1479) m. Manuel I, King of Portugal (b. 1469) in 1496, has issue​
See House of Aviz for issue​
4) Maria of Aragon and Castile, Queen of Hungary and Bohemia (twin of stillborn child; b. 1482) m. Vladislaus II, King of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1467) in 1499, has issue​
See House of Jagiellon (Hungary and Bohemia) for issue​
5) Stillborn child (twin of Maria; b. and d. 1482)​
6) Catalina of Aragon and Castile, Princess of Wales (b. 1485) m. Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b. 1486) in 1502, has issue​
See House of Tudor for issue​

---

HOUSE OF AVIZ
King Manuel I of Portugal (formerly Duke of Viseu; b. 1469, r. from 1495) m. Juana of Aragon and Castile (b. 1479) in 1496, has issue
1) João, Prince of Portugal (b. 1497) m. Mary of Burgundy (b. 1498) in 1515, has no issue​
2) Leonor of Portugal (b. 1498) eng. Charles IV, King of Naples (b. 1500)​
3) Afonso of Portugal (b. 1500, d. 1501)​
4) Isabel of Portugal (b. 1503)​
5) Beatrice of Portugal (b. 1504)​
6) Fernando of Portugal, Duke of Beja (b. 1506)​
7) Antonio of Portugal (b. and d. 1507)​
8) Henrique of Portugal (b. 1512)​
9) Duarte of Portugal (b. 1514)​

---

HOUSE OF TUDOR
Henry VII Tudor, King of England (formerly earl of Richmond; b. 1458, r. from 1485, d. 1514) m. Elizabeth of York (b. 1466) in 1485, has issue
1) Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b. 1486, d. 1513) m. Catalina of Aragon and Castile (b. 1485) in 1502, has issue​
1) Stillborn daughter (b. and d. 1503)​
2) Henry Tudor (b. and d. 1504)​
3) Stillborn son (b. and d. 1507)​
4) Stillborn son (b. and d. 1508)​
5) Edward VI Tudor, King of England (twin of Edmund; b. 1510)​
6) Edmund Tudor, Duke of Richmond (twin of Edward; b. 1510)​
7) Mary Tudor (b. 1513)​
2) Margaret Tudor, Queen of Scots (b. 1489) m. James IV Stewart, King of Scots (b. 1473) in 1503, has issue​
See House of Stewart for issue​
3) Henry Tudor, Duke of York (b. 1491, d. 1551) m. Anne de La Tour d’Auvergne (b. 1494) in 1506, has issue​
1) Margaret Tudor (b. 1512)​
2) Stillborn son (b. and d. 1514)​
4) Elizabeth Tudor (b. 1492, d. 1495)​
5) Mary Tudor (b. 1496) m. Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470) in 1514, has no issue​
6) Edmund Tudor, Duke of Somerset (b. 1499, d. 1500)​

---

HOUSE OF VALOIS
Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470, r. from 1477) m. Anne, Duchess of Brittany (b. 1477, r. 1488-1514, d. 1514) in 1491, has issue (a); Mary Tudor (b. 1496) in 1514, has no issue (b)
1a) Charles Orland, Dauphin of France (b. 1492, d. 1495)​
2a) François of France, Duke of Normandy (b. and d. 1493)​
3a) Stillborn daughter (b. and d. 1494)​
4a) Stillborn daughter (b. and d. 1495)​
5a) Charles, Dauphin of France (b. and d. 1496)​
6a) François, Dauphin of France (b. and d. 1497)​
7a) Louise of France (b. and d. 1498)​
8a) Charlotte of France, Duchess of Brittany (b. 1499) m. Charles, Duke of Orléans (b. 1501) in 1515, has no issue​
9a) Louis, Dauphin of France (b. and d. 1503)​
10a) Anne of France (b. 1510)​

---

HOUSE OF SAVOY and VALOIS-ANGOULÊME/VALOIS-ORLÉANS:
Philip II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1438, r. 1496-1497, d. 1497) m. Marguerite of Bourbon (b. 1438, d. 1483) in 1472, had issue (a); Claudine de Brosse (b. 1450, d. 1513) in 1485, had issue (b)
1a) Louise of Savoy (b. 1476) m. Charles of Valois, Duke d’Angoulême (b. 1459, d. 1496) in 1489, has issue (a); Louis of Valois, Duke of Orléans and Milan (b. 1464, d. 1515) in 1499, has issue (b)​
1a) Marguerite d’Angoulême, Duchess of Nemours (b. 1492) m. Gaston de Foix, Duke of Nemours (b. 1489) in 1509, has issue​
1) Françoise de Foix (b. 1511)​
2) Jean de Foix (b. and d. 1513)​
2a) François, Duke d’Angoulême (b. 1494) m. Catherine of Navarre (b. 1495) in 1513, has issue​
1) Charles d’Angoulême (b. 1514, d. 1515)​
3b) Charles, Duke of Orléans (b. 1501, d. 1535) m. Charlotte of France, Duchess of Brittany (b. 1499) in 1515, has no issue​
4b) Jeanne d’Orléans (b. 1502) [1] eng. Louis II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1502)​
5b) Louis d’Orléans (b. and d. 1506)​
6b) Philippe d’Orléans (b. 1509, d. 1512)​
7b) Marie d’Orléans (b. 1510)​
8b) Anne d'Orléans (b. and d. 1512)​
9b) Isabelle d’Orléans (b. 1514)​
2a) Girolamo of Savoy (b. and d. 1478)​
3a) Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1480, r. 1497-1504, d. 1504) m. Yolande Louise of Savoy (b. 1487, d. 1499) in 1496, had no issue (a); Charlotte of Naples, Princess of Taranto (b. 1479/1480, d. 1513) in 1500, has issue (b)​
1b) Philippa of Savoy (b. 1501)​
2b) Louis II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1502) [2] eng. Jeanne d’Orléans (b. 1502)​
3b) Anne of Savoy (b. 1504)​
1b) Charles of Savoy, Count of Geneva (b. 1486)​
2b) Louis of Savoy (b. 1488, d. 1502)​
3b) Philip of Savoy (b. 1490)​
4b) Assolone of Savoy (b. and d. 1494)​
5b) Giovanni of Savoy (b. and d. 1495)​
6b) Philiberta of Savoy (b. 1498)​

[1] Named after her father’s ex-wife, Jeanne of France, who was also named her godmother as an act of good feeling between her parents and Jeanne.
[2] Louis is named for his godfather, the Duke of Milan and Orléans
---

HOUSE OF JAGIELLON (Hungary-Bohemia)
Vladislaus II Jagiellon, King of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1456, r. from 1471) m. Maria of Aragon and Castile (b. 1482) in 1500, has issue
1) Elisabeth Jagiellonica of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1501)​
2) Stephen Jagiellon of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1502) eng. Catherine of Burgundy (b. 1502)​
3) Anna Jagiellonica of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1503)​
4) Louis Jagiellon of Hungary and Bohemia, Duke of Slavonia (b. 1505)​
5) Catherine Jagiellonica of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1506)​
6) Andrew Jagiellon of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1509)​
7) Sophia Jagiellonica of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1512)​
8) Barbara Jagiellonica of Hungary and Bohemia (b. and d. 1513)​
9) Ladislaus Jagiellon of Hungary and Bohemia (b. and d. 1515)​

---

HOUSE OF JAGIELLON (Poland-Lithuania)
Sigismund I Jagiellon, King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania (b. 1467) m. Catherine of Mecklenburg (b. 1487) in 1507, has issue
1) Sigismund Jagiellon (b. 1509, d. 1512)​
2) Alexander Jagiellon (b. and d. 1511)​
3) Hedwig Jagiellonica (b. 1513)​
4) Sophia Jagiellonica (b. 1515)​

---

HOUSE OF OLDENBURG
Christian I, King of Denmark, Sweden, and Norway (b. 1426, d. 1481) m. Dorothea of Brandenburg (b. 1430/1431, d. 1495) in 1449, had issue
1) Olaf of Denmark (b. 1450, d. 1451)​
2) Canute of Denmark (b. 1451, d. 1455)​
3) John, King of Denmark, Sweden, and Norway (b. 1455, r. from 1481, d. 1513) m. Christina of Saxony (b. 1461) in 1478, has issue​
1) Hans of Denmark and Norway (b. 1479, d. 1480)​
2) Ernst of Denmark and Norway (b. 1480, d. 1500)​
3) Christian II, King of Denmark and Norway (b. 1481) m. Anna of Brandenburg (b. 1487, d. 1514) in 1502, has issue​
1) John, Crown Prince of Denmark and Norway (b. 1503)​
2) Francis of Denmark (b. and d. 1505)​
3) Dorothea of Denmark (b. 1507)​
4) Jacob? (b. 1484?)​
5) Elisabeth of Denmark and Norway, Electress of Brandenburg (b. 1485, d. 1555) m. Joachim I Nestor, Elector of Brandenburg (b. 1484) in 1502, has issue​
Issue as IOTL​
6) Francis of Denmark and Norway (b. 1497, d. 1499)​
4) Margaret of Denmark, Queen of Scots (b. 1456, d. 1486) m. James III Stewart, King of Scots (b. 1451/1452, d. 1488) in 1469, had issue​
See House of Stewart for issue​
5) Frederick of Denmark, Duke of Schleswig-Holstein (b. 1471) m. Dorothea of Mecklenburg (b. 1480) in 1498, has issue​
1) Sophia of Schleswig-Holstein (b. 1501)​
2) Dorothea of Schleswig-Holstein (b. 1505)​

---

HOUSE OF STEWART
James III Stewart, King of Scots (b. 1451/1452, d. 1488) m. Margaret of Denmark (b. 1456, d. 1486) in 1469, had issue
1) James IV Stewart, King of Scots (b. 1473) m. Margaret Tudor (b. 1489) in 1502, has issue​
1) James Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (b. 1507, d. 1508)​
2) Stillborn daughter (b. and d. 1508)​
3) Arthur Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (b. 1509, d. 1510)​
4) James Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (b. 1512)​
5) Stillborn daughter (b. and d. 1512)​
6) Alexander Stewart, Duke of Ross (b. 1514, d. 1515)​
7) Margaret Stewart (b. 1515)​
2) James Stewart, Duke of Ross (b. 1476, d. 1504)​
3) John Stewart, earl of Mar (b. 1479, d. 1503)​

---

HOUSE OF BORGIA
Pope Alexander VI (born Rodrigo de Borja; b. 1431, d. 1503) never married, had illegitimate issue w/Vannozza dei Cattanei (b. 1442, d. 1518)
1) Cesare Borgia, Duke of Florence, Siena, Urbino, and the Romagna (b. 1475, d. 1512) m. Giovanna of Savoy (b. 1482) in 1500, had issue​
1) Lucrezia Borgia (b. 1501)​
2) Rodrigo Borgia (b. 1503, d. 1512)​
3) Filippo Borgia (b. 1504, d. 1512)​
4) Girolama Borgia (b. 1507)​
2) Juan/Giovanni Borgia, 2nd Duke of Gandia (b. 1474/1476, d. 1497) m. María Enriquez de Luna (b. 1474) in 1493, had issue​
1) Juan de Borja y Enriquez, 3rd Duke of Gandia​
2) Francisca de Jesús de Borja y Enriquez​
3) Isabel de Borja y Enriquez​
3) Lucrezia Borgia, Duchess of Ferrara (b. 1480, d. 1508) m. Giovanni Sforza, Lord of Pesaro and Gradara (b. 1466, d. 1510) in 1493, ann. 1497, had no issue (a); Alfonso d’Aragona, Duke of Bisceglie and Prince of Salerno (b. 1481, d. 1500) in 1498, had issue (b); Alfonso d’Este, Duke of Ferrara (b. 1476) in 1502, had issue (c)​
1b) Rodrigo d’Aragona, Duke of Bisceglie and Prince of Salerno (b. 1499, d. 1511)​
1c) Stillborn daughter (b. and d. 1502)​
2c) Alessandro d’Este (b. and d. 1505)​
3c) Ercole II d’Este, Duke of Ferrara (b. 1508)​
4) Gioffre Borgia, Prince of Squillace (b. 1481/1482) m. Sancha d’Aragona, Princess of Squillace (b. 1478, d. 1506) in 1493, had no issue (a); Clarice de’Medici (b. 1493) in 1508, had issue (b)​
1) Piero Borgia (b. 1510)​
2) Lucrezia Borgia (b. 1512)​
3) Alfonso Borgia (b. 1514)​
4) Isabella Borgia (b. 1515)​
 
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Hang on. The Tudor tree has Mary Tudor and Charles of France having had no issue, but they had a dauphin in 1515, didn't they? Where's little Henri gone?

Also, I love that the Borgias are surviving ITTL, if I haven't already told you so.
 
Also, I love that the Borgias are surviving ITTL, if I haven't already told you so.
Please retcon the end of the Borgias. Cant have them fail so badly x.x
I find the Borgias to be endlessly intriguing but...Cesare and his sons surviving just wasn't in the cards ITTL. Thankfully Lucrezia and Girolama are still around and have the protection of the Pope. They will both make good marriages and the Borgia blood will proliferate, don't worry.
Hang on. The Tudor tree has Mary Tudor and Charles of France having had no issue, but they had a dauphin in 1515, didn't they? Where's little Henri gone?
Ah, Henri was born in March 1516 so he's not on there yet, though I considered saying that Mary and Charles had unborn issue because Mary's pregnancy is pretty far along by the end of 1515.
 
Excellent updates, hopefully Edward Vi has a good reign, though as you already pointed out England isn't kind to child rulers. Still, with the protection of his mother and uncle he should do fairly well.
 
Excellent updates, hopefully Edward Vi has a good reign, though as you already pointed out England isn't kind to child rulers. Still, with the protection of his mother and uncle he should do fairly well.
Oh yes, with Katherine and Henry around to raise him and keep his kingdom, young Edward will definitely be in a good position when he assumes his majority.
 
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I foresee major tensions between Katherine and Henry soon enough
Oh they are on a collision course for sure. France isn’t as antagonistic towards Spain as IOTL but Katherine still stoutly dislikes the French, meanwhile Henry’s beloved sister Mary is queen of France with a much secure position than IOTL. It’s a hot mess.
 
Oh they are on a collision course for sure. France isn’t as antagonistic towards Spain as IOTL but Katherine still stoutly dislikes the French, meanwhile Henry’s beloved sister Mary is queen of France with a much secure position than IOTL. It’s a hot mess.
Plus his wife is a French heiress with an estate that can actually be inherited by a woman. He’s probably gonna want to stay on the Valois’s good side until he has a son to protect little Margaret’s inheritance. Speaking of which, if she doesn’t have a brother soon there’s gonna be a concerted interest both in England and France for her. Henry might end up with a bidding war on his hands.
 
Plus his wife is a French heiress with an estate that can actually be inherited by a woman. He’s probably gonna want to stay on the Valois’s good side until he has a son to protect little Margaret’s inheritance. Speaking of which, if she doesn’t have a brother soon there’s gonna be a concerted interest both in England and France for her. Henry might end up with a bidding war on his hands.
Gosh...I didn’t even think of that because I know how things will turn out but yes, Henry will definitely need to be careful if he wants to protect his children’s inheritance.
 
XXXI: A new kid on the Milanese block and stuff
“In ignominity, Louis d’Orléans retreated from the besieged Milan in May 1513, with only his family and the most loyal of his French forces. As he and Louise of Savoy traveled back to France, Louis was determined to regroup and relieve Milan of the Sforza usurper as soon as he could. He knew how his retreat would look, to the Milanese and the rest of Christendom, and it ate away at him. Louis’s health was never the same after he was turned out from Milan and he died on the second anniversary of his departure, in May 1515.”
From War and Peace: The French in Italy, 1494-1537 by Harper Bishop​



“Would God that I were a man...the Sforza bastard would have rotted alongside his father.”
Supposed quote from Louise of Savoy in reference to Francesco Sforza on the occasion of her husband’s expulsion from Milan.​



“Charles d’Orléans, Duke of Valois was, on the eve of his father’s death, a young man brimming with possibility. He was showing signs of being an effective military leader, no doubt influenced by his closeness with his cousin Gaston de Foix, one of the most respected French commanders of the Renaissance era. Only two aging men stood between him and the throne of France, and his future wife was the daughter of the King and heiress of Brittany. He was cultured and intelligent as well, having been carefully educated by his mother in the humanist tradition during his childhood in Italy.”
From Sword and State : A Political History of Renaissance Italy by Hugh Burris​



“But is there no way that the rule of magistrates might be made tolerable to a people prone towards hostility? For in certain cases, does a lord not have any choice but to appoint a deputy?”
From a letter from Charles d’Orléans to Florentine. philosopher and diplomat Niccolò Machiavelli, dated 21 March 1514.​
Charles was one of the recipients in 1513 of one of the first copies of what would later be published as The Prince.​



“Charles seems to have reconsidered the match between Charlotte and Charles d’Orléans in the aftermath of his remarriage to Queen Mary. But Mary wasn’t pregnant yet, and Charles had always been disturbingly prone to illness, so he ultimately decided that Charles d’Orléans and Charlotte would be his ‘contingency plan’ if he failed to produce a male heir. It was a decision that Charles later regretted.”
From The Affable: A Life of Charles VIII, King of France by Leslie Johnson​



"In the month of August were married the Duke of Orléans and the Duchess of Brittany at the Château de Blois. The occasion was suitably grand, with the King and Queen in attendance, yet held a solemn air in light of the recent demise of the Duke's father."
From an anonymous French chronicle describing the marriage of Charles d'Orléans and Charlotte of France in August 1515.​



"Under the guidance of his mother, the young Duke of Orléans had no sooner succeeded his father than he began planning for the reconquest of Milan. Louise of Savoy even went so far as to direct her still underage son in the appropriation of funds from his wife’s lands in Brittany. If she even knew of this, Duchess Charlotte was far too docile to raise any objections. She was also occupied consistently with pregnancy and childbirth from the earliest days of her marriage [1].

King Charles, however, was another story.”
From Pavane: A History of Renaissance France by Courtney Patrick​
[1] Charlotte and Charles d'Orléans welcome their first child in 1516 and it keeps going from there.



“Charles’s son-in-law would prove to be a persistent thorn in his side. It started not soon after Charles d’Orléans became duke, even before his marriage to Charlotte of France. In the fashion of an overconfident adolescent boy, the almost fourteen year old Charles d’Orléans demanded from Charles an army, and the funds to pay that army, in order to retake Milan. Charles laughed the boy out of his court but once Charles d’Orléans married Charlotte, he and his mother began appropriating the money and men of his new wife’s land to mount an invasion of Milan. Charles was livid. A nobleman raising his own standing army, especially one from a potentially hostile territory like Brittany, smacked of the tumultuous early years of Charles’s reign. However, he tolerated such under the thinking that Charles d’Orleans was the dauphin-in-waiting, being next in line for the throne at the time.”
From The Affable: A Life of Charles VIII, King of France by Leslie Johnson​



“Louise of Savoy and her second husband had essentially built up a family that rivaled that of the French royal family in power, resources, and connections. Their son Charles, through his marriage to the suo jure Duchess of Brittany, had the money and manpower to field his own army when his father-in-law King Charles refused him the use of royal forces. The army was to be led by Louise’s son-in-law, the husband of her daughter Marguerite, Gaston de Foix, Duke of Nemours.”
From Malicious Madames and Dastardly Demoiselles: Women and Political Power in 16th and 17th Century France by Taylor McManus​



“The Duke of Nemours and the Duke of Orléans led their troops to Italy in the spring of 1517. They stopped briefly in Savoy to celebrate the marriage of the Duke of Orleans’s sister, Jeanne, to the Duke Louis [1], who subsequently joined their campaign, then continued on their way. By the end of April, they were within a day’s march of Milan.”
From War and Peace: The French in Italy, 1494-1537 by Harper Bishop​

[1] If you'll recall, said marriage has been planned since Jeanne and Louis were infants. About time that it happened.



“The Duke has ridden out to give battle to the dastardly French. The Duchess [1] commands the defense of [Milan] and declares that she will be run through with a sword rather than see [the French] occupy it again.”
From a letter from the Imperial envoy to Milan to Emperor Frederick IV, dated 8 April 1517.​
[1] To be clear, the Duke and Duchess in this excerpt are Francesco and Bona Sforza.



Clouet, School of Jean - Louise of Savoy - Toulouse.jpg

Portrait of Louise of Savoy, Duchess of Orléans and Milan as a widow circa
1520-1522 by Jean Clouet. Louise was briefly regent of the duchy of Orléans for her son
Charles in 1515-1516. He was declared to be of age on his 15th birthday in September
1516. Her influence allowed him to eventually regain the duchy of Milan as well.
 
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Pretty interesting. just one thing: while the reference to Gaston of Foix as son-in-law is the most likely to be used for Louise of Savoy, that of brother-in-law is pretty unlikely when talking about Charles d’Orleans as Gaston is his first cousin before being the husband of his half-sister.
I hope who the poor Charlotte will be able to recover the control of her lands... and Milan belong to the Sforza (and I hope they will be able to keep it in the end)
 
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It will be interesting to see who comes out on top in Milan... I hope it's the Sforza's but the situation dosen't look good for them. I also assume that the Duke of Orleans and his progeny will like cause plenty of headaches to the French king and his successors. Excellent update!
 
I'm rooting for an Orléans Milan, just because I've never seen an Orléans Milan that isn't also part of France.

That said, all this talk of unrealized potential smells like a death flag, so Charles is probably gonna die in battle.
 
Pretty interesting. just one thing: while the reference to Gaston of Foix as son-in-law is the most likely to be used for Louise of Savoy, that of brother-in-law is pretty unlikely when talking about Charles d’Orleans as Gaston is his first cousin before being the husband of his half-sister.
I hope who the poor Charlotte will be able to recover the control of her lands... and Milan belong to the Sforza (and I hope they will be able to keep it in the end)
Noted, in regards to your comment about Gaston. Charlotte unfortunately is in a similar position to her OTL counterpart Claude of France, with a domineering mother-in-law and a husband with an agenda of his own, but anything can happen...And no comment about the Sforzas holding Milan ;)
It will be interesting to see who comes out on top in Milan... I hope it's the Sforza's but the situation dosen't look good for them. I also assume that the Duke of Orleans and his progeny will like cause plenty of headaches to the French king and his successors. Excellent update!
Thank you! Don't despair about the chances of the Sforzas, they have an uphill battle this time around but they also have the backing of the HRE and there's another generation around to inherit the fight.
That said, all this talk of unrealized potential smells like a death flag, so Charles is probably gonna die in battle.
Ah, but it was never said that Charles's potential was realized or unrealized, just that it was there...
 
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