I feel that everyone is forgetting we also have Jeanne, who later became recognised as Queen of Navarre, and Jeanne the Duchess of Burgundy who has a son.
Margaret, The Maid of Norway Survives - Butterflies???
- Thread starter Sārthākā
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Her son would still be a foreigner for the French IMO the Valois get the Crown no matter who's Isabella's husband bad luck 4 her
Yeah I don't see the French accepting a Neopolitan or Aragonese.
krieger
Banned
Yes, but I meant that maybe succesion would be not disputed at all with Isabella being married to Philip.
The first Jeanne is the daughter of Louis X, she was John I's sister.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_II_of_Navarre
Whilst she was initially overruled on the basis of being a female minor, actual Salic Law did recognise women as heirs in the absence of close male relatives. Hence why she should have inherited Champagne and other counties straight off. And Navarre did recognise female succession so she should have had that too.
The second Jeanne is the daughter of Philip V (the one who "usurped" the first Jeanne).
Joan III, Countess of Burgundy - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
She married Duke Eudes of Burgundy, maternal uncle of the first who initially supported his niece's claim.
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In their letter of confirmation of the terms of the Treaty of Salisbury the Scots made it clear that Margaret was to rule and enjoy Scotland "as other Kings do in their Kingdoms..." I would respectfully suggest that this is more about politics and power rather than nationalism.
In ATL the Scots could recognise the Treaty for what it is and refuse to accept it.
So another claim to the throne??The first Jeanne is the daughter of Louis X, she was John I's sister.
[URL unfurl="true"]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_II_of_Navarre[/url]
Whilst she was initially overruled on the basis of being a female minor, actual Salic Law did recognise women as heirs in the absence of close male relatives. Hence why she should have inherited Champagne and other counties straight off. And Navarre did recognise female succession so she should have had that too.
The second Jeanne is the daughter of Philip V (the one who "usurped" the first Jeanne).
She married Duke Eudes of Burgundy, maternal uncle of the first who initially supported his niece's claim.Joan III, Countess of Burgundy - Wikipedia
With no Wars of Scottish Independence no
- Capture of Berwick (1296)
- Battle of Dunbar (1296)
- Battle of Stirling Bridge, 1297
- Battle of Falkirk (1298)
- Battle of Roslin, 1303
- Battle of Happrew 1304
- Fall of Stirling Castle, 1304
- Battle of Methven, 1306
- Battle of Dalry, 1306
- Battle of Glen Trool, 1307
- Battle of Loudoun Hill, 1307
- Battle of Slioch, 1307
- Battle of Inverurie, 1308
- Battle of Pass of Brander, 1308
- Battle of Bannockburn, 1314
- Battle of Connor, 1315
- Battle of Skaithmuir, 1316
- Battle of Skerries, 1316
- Battle of Faughart, 1318
- Capture of Berwick, 1318
- Battle of Myton, 1319
- Declaration of Arbroath, 1320
- Battle of Boroughbridge, 1322
- Battle of Old Byland, 1322
- Treaty of Corbeil, 1326
- Battle of Stanhope Park, 1327
- Treaty of Edinburgh-Northampton, 1328
- Battle of Dupplin Moor, 1332
- Battle of Halidon Hill, 1333
- Battle of Dornock, 1333
- Battle of Boroughmuir, 1335
- Battle of Culblean, 1335
- Battle of Neville's Cross, 1346
- what would be impact on Mediëval Warfare also no Crecy and Poitiers
I am more interested on the Crecy and Poitiers part.
Warfare could remain stagnant for many years
also kudos to that research! Really wonder how all that changes things
Jeanne of Navarre’s claim was already annulled by Philip V’s interpretation of the Salic law and Jeanne of Burgundy‘s son had a lower claim than Isabella’s son as successor of Charles IV under blood proximity. In any case is pretty likely who OTL Jeanne of Navarre will marry Isabella’s ATL son instead of Évreux.
Well Aragon was the border kingdom and the Anjou while rulers of Naples were still a French dynasty so the claim of Isabella’s ATL son would be more likely to be accepted.
That could also mean Spain is never formed as we know it ITTL.
Neither the Habsburgs, Savoyards or Venetians or going to like that.
Oh I just think that they shouldn't be discounted as completely lacking support. Any changes to the succession will impact their claims too, even if those claims are lesser.
Now that's interesting. Who are you currently thinking is best placed to be Isabella's husband TTL?
Scotland is fucked for years afterwards, furthermore, the Comyns and the Bruces remain rival families rather than claimants to the throne. Which means their centres of power remain in tact. Meaning Margaret will havee a great balancing act to play.
I am hopelessly backwards in my medieval European history then.....can you explain?
Well, firstly meant to say Scotland isn't fucked for years afterwards. The Wars of Independence ravaged Scotland, reducing vast amounts of the country to nothing more than rubble and burning heaps. Bruce's chevuachee campaigns in Buchan and Badenoch which were ruled by his rivals the Comyns, left those areas desolate for years afterwwards. If Margaret lives, and has issue, then the war for independence ain't happening, which means the ravaging of Scotland doesn't happen. Instead, we're likely to see a whole lot of political intrigue led by the Bruces and Comyns for influence at the Scottish court, just like what happened during the reign of Alexander III.
Ah shit I don't like political intrigues, they usually end up bad. Don't tell me their rivalry ends up bad.
Depends on who gains the advantage and who has the ear of the Queen etc.