MapReflex

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by SpazzReflex, May 22, 2018.

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  1. Threadmarks: Nazpocalypse Idea #001

    SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    Nazpocalypse: Who's Blood and Soil is it anyway?

    Nazpocalypse: Axis wins scenario, and the world keeps turning...

    Nazi Germany will pretty quickly run out of Russian serfs in a scenario of the Hunger Plan. Importing labor from Europe is possibly a short-term solution, but population is probably not great enough to make up for the needed labor, especially depending on the layout of the plantation system in the Ost. The Green Revolution is coming, given the industrial chemical production going on and increasing understanding of crop genetics, which means a greater ability for agricultural output. The German population will probably not be working the fields in any large numbers, given the racial hierarchy of labor. So which populations would be likely to wind up in the Ost?

    • Remaining Slavs - Depending on how long the overt exterminationist streak of the Nazi party remains, things may 'improve' from conditions inimical to life to conditions which allow the bare minimum of survival and usability. Eventually the necessity for labor may out-strip the need of ideological purity, and Slavic slaves will see conditions similar to chattel slavery. Given the increased technologies and variable climate, Slavic populations may be able to reach replacement rate. However, this depends a lot on the conditions they exist under and when they are implemented. It may depend on the state of the Soviet Union post-bellum, for a surviving and belligerent Soviet Union might increase the desire of the Nazi officials to exterminate the Natives. Alternatively, a Slavic reserve of sorts maybe implemented bantustan style, in order to maintain a laborer population without giving them any concentrated power.
    • European Minorities/Poor Europeans - Emigration from Southern Europe, Ireland, etc. as labor. This could be a 'moderate' solution to the labor issue; Importing Europeans not worthy of extermination, but not subjecting pure Aryans to agricultural labor conditions. However, we must also consider the international conditions of the time. Spain, Hungary, and especially Italy may not be keen on seeing their labor siphoned off to the Ost when they are seeking to maintain good conditions for their own people. Might not be politically feasible, especially if conditions do not improve for agricultural labor.
    • Central Asians/Middle Easterners - Similar to the Europeans, they're not necessarily importing the bottom rungs of the racial hierarchy, but unlike the Europeans it is less unsavoury disposing of these people in a harsh way. The problem arises from the ideological friction between Nazism's need for an enslaved labor supply and its racial hierarchy necessitating the destruction and removal of minority and foreign populations. Importing a foreign population of laborers will be pretty politically unsavoury among party hardliners.
    • Chinese/Indian/other Asian labor - While less unsavoury than Middle Easterners, they still encounter the same problems. However, there is a large enough population that the German higher-ups, rather than full-time enslavement can just refine the indentured servitude system already historically present. They are contracted and used for their labor, then cycled out of the country before they have time to put down roots. Depending on the state of India post-bellum, it would perhaps be one of the easier political moves, given Italy (who will likely control parts of the Middle East) and Japan (who will undoubtedly control Chinese population movements to the best of their ability) will probably not be in good terms with Germany, and India will likely be a post-colonial state looking for investment and allies.
    • African People - Perhaps in the most obvious parallel to the US colonization of the Americas, importing enslaved Africans may be logistically easier than many alternatives depending on what Germany owns post-bellum. This however, runs headlong into the ideological problem of labor v hierarchy, given Africans were often seen as close to if not the bottom of the racial hierarchy.
    Ultimately, The Ost will probably be very US South like in terms of society: Big agricultural landholders (rich elites and agrocorps holding massive plantations with massive amounts of slaves), smaller landholders (Germans awarded land and slaves who moved from Germany proper to find a better life), a negligible middle class in small and isolated urban centers, and a significant underclass of slaves, with maybe some collaborating natives holding out in small pockets. Racial hierarchy binds the landholders together, even though they have competing economic interests, and the bigger landholders will often use the small landholders as a bludgeon against other groups whether political interests back West which conflict with them or internal forces of change in the Ost. Soviet guerillas may maintain hostilities for generations, and depending on whether or not they have any major successes, may be regarded with the same disdain US settlers had towards Natives; violent and savage, but on a grand scale nearly gone and not worth too much thought.

    Ultimately what I'm saying is that its likely German exterminationism will relax as labor shortages become a thing, and much like earlier in the process, they will look towards the US South in both antebellum and Jim Crow iterations for inspiration on how to structure their societies. It will likely also mean massive population changes, in horrifying ways.
     
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  2. SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    To be explicitly clear, this is not an endorsement of these terrible ideas.

    Part of this is me wrestling with how monumentally messed up settler colonialism (Particularly the US and South Africa's versions of colonialism) is with an unambiguously evil actor.

    Like even the 'happy endings' where the Nazis reform into a center right pro-business type of party involve bantustans and plantation systems. The worldview behind it sees no value in human life.
     
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  3. ST15RM Ich bin ein AH.commer!

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    Well I’m not saying you do. If you did CalBear would send you straight to Coventry.

    But the scenario is just.... a nightmare. A horrible nightmare.
     
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  4. Burton K Wheeler l'état profond, c'est moi Moderator

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    Don't post garbage.
     
  5. Accurateworldwar Sherrod Brown for President, maybe Donor

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  6. Falkanner Hyphen-Addict

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    Reported, kiddo.
     
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  7. Threadmarks: Nazpocalypse Idea #002

    SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    Nazpocalypse: The Anglo-Japanese Rapprochement, Non-Aggression Pact, and the New Order of East Asia

    There were a number of factors leading up to the second Anglo-Japanese non-aggression pact. Firstly the Lightning War in Europe solidified German control over the continent and the slaughter at Dunkirk was a massive loss for the British Empire. Confidence in British power was shaken and holding on to India became untenable. Parliament began the processes of independence for British India, and the United Kingdom began to worry about instability in the rest of their Asian holdings, particularly when Germany pressured France and the Netherlands into hosting naval bases in the region. The Lightning War had also soured relations with the United States when under the auspices of the *Neutrality Act of 1939 the United States government prosecuted a major arms manufacturer for illegally selling guns to the United Kingdom. The President came down heavy on the side of isolationists, and declared the Lightning War to be 'A problem of European belligerence which the United States will avoid for the purposes of peace in our time'. US sheltering of National Unity Party leader Adrien Arcand also soured relations with Canada further, with increasing fears of US designs on Canada. Japanese sabre-rattling was getting louder, and the Japanese invasion of French Indochina worried the United Kingdom to no end. The French colonial government resisted the Japanese occupation, but the Japanese Navy proved a more impressive foe than earlier thought. Even with popular anti-Japanese sentiment in the United States, the President would refuse to consider war as an option unless harmed.

    The United Kingdom was in a terrible position to wage war with the Japanese, and believed that it would be best to avoid war in Asia while they could. Representatives from Japan and the United Kingdom would converge on Singapore to negotiate a non-aggression pact in September 1940. The two nations would avoid sponsoring groups waging war against the other (anti-colonial militias for Japan and the KMT for the UK) and refrain from military confrontation. Petroleum and rubber would be sold, and Burma would receive a small corner of Indochina as a buffer. Britain conceded their extraterritorial possessions in China to the Japanese. At the behest of both the Japanese government and Burmah Oil, the Anglo-Japanese Malaysian Oil venture was established, which sold petroleum to Japan at a moderately discounted rate.

    The break-up of the Dutch Indies by popular revolution would see Japanese intervention to secure oil and tin supplies. The British orchestrated an evacuation of Dutch colonialists to Australia and Singapore as the war became more and more brutal. Initially willing to cooperate with the Japanese, the Islamic People's Army (ADI) fell out with Japanese forces when it became obvious the Japanese were seeking to control the economic destiny of the people, and Japan was once again in a guerrilla war with their ostensible Asian allies. The Moluccas were still for the most part under Dutch control, and Japan seized control in 1944. Despite its appearance of violent conquest, the Dutch community in the Moluccas remained unharmed, as did most of their property. The Declaration of Batu Merah reiterated Japanese racial policies of equality under the law, with Christian, Muslim, and Dutch local leaders gathering with the Japanese governor to make a Commonwealth of the Moluccas. Though certainly accentuated for propaganda, the British government saw the Declaration to be a turning point for their relationship with Japan.

    Then came the disastrous Indian Independence, which saw the region spin apart into several different states. Some of the states in India pursued close ties with the United Kingdom, like Hyderabad and the Islamic State of India, while others became hostile, like the Democratic Republic of India, and Hindustan. The United Kingdom began setting up a more gradual time-table of independence for its colonies. Most colonies would not see independence for another thirty years in many cases, and some groups began to get agitated. The Chinese community in Malaysia began to support pro-independence fighters, and a general strike began in Sri Lanka. Independence seemed inevitable for most if not all of the Asian Empire. Meanwhile, the Second Sino-Japanese war wound down into stalemate, and the militarists began to be pushed out of power by business interests. Japan began to turn its attention away from China, and began investments in trade with newly independent Philippines, oil exploration in the Moluccas (which would yield positive results in 1948), and the increasing power of the United States. The United States was quick to supporting both the Republic of China and the Islamic Republic of Indonesia after their wars were over, and US investment in Indonesia in particular saw the presence of US nationals and their manufactured goods expand rapidly.

    The Japanese approached Great Britain with a plan of planned restructuring of the Asian landscape in both of their favors. The Plan, ominously titled The New Order of East Asia was intended to curb both Chinese and American power exertion in the region. Japan and the United Kingdom would give one another favorable trade concessions, with several joint ventures between Japanese and British companies focusing on maintaining Anglo-Japanese control over the economies of former British colonies. Militarily, the IJN and RN would both have free access to the ports of the former colonies, and base rights for both. Politically, the joint Anglo-Japanese Office of East Asian Affairs would coordinate the economic and military activities of the former colonies. Along with several Indian states, Burma, the Indochinese states, and Thailand, the United Kingdom and Japan would negotiate the creation of the New Order in East Asia. In practice, the former colonies were second fiddle to the UK, Thailand, and Japan, whose companies cartelized their economies and exploited their resources.

    The New Order in East Asia would be one of the main drivers for Australian Independence. Though some voices in Australia welcomed the detente and were interested in expanding business in the colonies, many others dissented. Many nationalists significant fears of Thai and especially Japanese influence over the economy, and the military strength of Japan not only going unchallenged, but strengthened by the New Order. Alongside Papua New Guinea (tied economically to Australia), Canberra would declare independence from the British Empire in 1958 after backlash against the New Order entered the political realm. Australia would move unambiguously into the US-German camp by 1964.

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  8. ST15RM Ich bin ein AH.commer!

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  9. Threadmarks: Coastal Salish Canada-wank

    SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    So, I'm tired and unsure how long the Canada-wank fad will last, so I'm gonna write this down before I go to bed. There's Anglo-Canada wank, French Canadian wanks, but there's another part of Canada which may or may not be in need of a wank...

    POD: The Roe mission to the Mughal court fails, and English entry into the Indian market is delayed. On the flip side, trade missions to Japan yield the much desired raw silk through a mix of diplomacy and espionage.

    England begins setting its sights on East Indies and China trade. The Dutch manage to seize Macau from the Portuguese, and it is England which sets up a colony in Formosa, establishing a lucrative trading empire between Japan and China. Much like iOTL the English begin trading deer with the Japanese. When the deer start drying up, the EEIC begins looking for other goods to trade with China and Japan. Expeditions begin to the West, looking further up the American pacific coast from Mexico to explore what else there was.

    Though Spain does its port-hopping strategy, trying to contain the British, in this world also hopping up as far north as Portland in order to lay claim to the region. Of course, the English dgaf, and arrive in Puget Sound around 1650. Of course finding a lucrative fur trade already present, England kick starts the Fur trade a century early in an effort to get some of that China trade. The English trade deerskin for silver in Japan, to be sold for manufactured goods in China, which are sold in England for a profit. The English, with a hidden port in the area of OTL Port Ludlow, would trade muskets and beads for pelts and the like.

    The effect on the people of the Pacific Northwest is catastrophic. Tribal warfare and slavery expand drastically, and as disease related die-offs begin occurring, more and more slaves are required to maintain society. Acquiring material wealth, long a feature of these societies is accelerated by the connection with the British and Spanish, with some young men venturing to Asia to find more goods to acquire. Among the Coastal Salish peoples, particularly the Hachuwapish (OTL Duwamish), the old potlaching system encouraged the upper class men to start to work to acquire more goods form the English. Firearms aided in hunting, raiding, and slaving, often taking land and granting it to sons of important figures in their local group. Iron-working became a major practice with the iron materials brought by Europeans, improving access to lumber, accessories, and weapons. The Expansion of the Hachuwapish also saw the introduction of a type of serfdom to the region, as families owning slaves would use them to manage and harvest the lands under their jurisdiction.

    The introduction of the pig by the English also helped cement change in the region. The pig raised havoc on foodstuffs, and though they could be hunted themselves as a meal, it was particularly dangerous and not worth the lost vegetables. Meadows and groves of significant importance began to be portioned off by fencing in an effort to keep out the boars. Erecting and managing those fences soon became a matter of life or death for some peoples. Still often not enough, intensive planting began of edible plants, particularly aquacultures which were harder for the pig to access. The Hachuwapish began absorbing local tribes and slaving for a labor force suitable for creating a highly managed agricultural system.

    The period from 1730-1760 would see an unprecedented expansion in the search of salmon, furs, and slaves. Though wars with groups like the Haida and Chlaquiyat (OTL Tla-o-qui-aht) would provide minor setbacks, the introduction of the potato and accompanying population expansion would set the Hachuwapish ascendant in the region. In the South, regular trade between the Spanish and Hachuwapish would begin, with Catholic missionaries established across the Sound. Hachupawish fishermen, hunters, and tradesmen would often but heads with Chinook and Kalapuya peoples, also on the relative rise. To the North, a series of campaigns were launched to dull the power of the Haida and Chlaquiyat. Though they would not succeed in breaking the power of either tribe fully, the Hachupawish gain unfettered access to the Pacific Ocean with the Great Ucluelet Peace Treaty. Eventually both the Haida and the Hachupawish would launch fleets of exploration, combining European sails and deep canoe technologies.

    Hachupawish expeditions to Formosa, Japan, and China would see a direct relation established with the kingdoms of the Far East. A Diplomatic envoy would travel to Mexico City, then Norfolk, and on to Europe. These expeditions would bring extraordinary amounts of hides, jewelry, intricately carved tools, and slaves. With legitimate diplomatic connections being made, international trade would also increase to this cold corner of the planet. Cattle and corn are introduced, just in time as hunting began to become exhausted, and a decent amount of iron weaponry and firearms entered the region.

    Slavery as an institution would become untenable, as missions would emancipated and protect runaways, and the neighboring tribes became more powerful and centralized. The slaves within society were starting to resist and revolts were not uncommon. The high chieftain of the Hachupawish, known in the English speaking world as Father Raven, Kawqsbad set forth to create a constitution. Among its major tenets was the abolition of 'slavery', and it's replacement by the Skeyquel system. Thought no longer property, the former slaves, living with their former masters, were obligated to gift the masters a certain portion of their work in scale to the benevolence of the hosting masters. Though an improvement, where eventually former slaves could theoretically have a more equal balance with their former masters, in practice thereally was still a great power imbalance. The formation of a wandering arbitration system, the T'hemekhal, would allow for some leniency and empowerment for former slaves, but ultimately, the rulings were made on personal bases and the t'hemekhal were not impartial.

    Soon after the imposition of the t'hemekhal, there would be the creation of a universal set of laws to be applied to the cases presented, and the number of these judges would shrink. Rather than come to the problem, the decisions were made in large local longhouse with the pleading parties traveling there. Catholicism and a bit of Anglican missionary work also impacted the process, with Kawqsbad basing his law in part of that of the Ten Commandments, keeping them simple and on display at every big long house in major villages. Local Christianity incorporated vision-quests and animist elements into their beliefs. European strength in the area was still relatively weak and would continue to be into the late 1700s.





    [tbc in the morning]
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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  10. Clandango Disestablishmentarianist

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    Splendid work with the thing with labor. I expect the Nazis would first try what they did in WWII with having the government of France recruit hundreds of thousands of men for them as laborers, but that was straining when the assumed or promised promises of a treaty to end the war (the Germans also refused it to the collaborates in Norway and Belgium, I believe) with those governments was not fulfilled. I also read once of musing by the Germans of trading Eastern Europeans to South American countries in exchange for their German immigrants and the children and grandchildren of them. Apparently Hitler thought the best Germans were those who left to be pioneers and such. I don't see them exactly being thrilled to be shipped to the wastes. Reminds me of how the agreements for populatoin excange with the Italians and the Soviets ended up with the Nazis keeping all the money paid by the Soviets and Italians for the private German property.
     
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  11. SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    How could I have forgotten about France! These are interesting insights I'll have to keep in mind building the Nazpocalypse world

    Part of me wonders at the amount of white (at least enough for the Nazis) Americans and Argentinians will be swept up in the offer of cheap land in the Ost, esp given the economic relief that WWII provided globally to the Depression doesn't occur
     
  12. Threadmarks: MOTF 184 World

    SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    MOTF 184 World

    France is on shakier terms with the Pope as the Reformation arrives, and pisses off Francis I enough that his family, and thus the state of France, are much more amenable to Protestants. Instead of a half-century long religious insurrection, France lurches into a more Anglican Gallicanism early, and the Protestants are a minor nuisance, but not as existentially threatening as the Catholics on every border. France's alliance with the Ottomans grows stronger than OTL. Official embassies open and stay open through thick and thin. Given England's slower growth and beat-down by Spain, mercantillist practices are less prominent in European society. As Mufawadahs start forming in the Ottoman Empire, they start making trade missions into Lyon, Toulon, and Paris, forming small communities. France in turn begins establishing bases in the Levant and Egypt. Shadows of mercantilism arise, and France begins limiting the power and influence of the Mufawadahs, while also trying to form a more exclusive relation with the Ottomans. The French Turkish Company is formed, partnering with the Alexandria mufawadah to cartelize trade between France and the Ottomans to their favor. When the Siege of Basra grows distrust between the Mufawadahs and Sultan, The Sultan undercuts the Alexandrians and offers what we might call an economic union, with near non-existent tariffs, coordination of economic policy, and the Lyonese FTC and Ottoman sponsored Royal Mufawadah of Constantinople oligopolize European-Ottoman trade. The Treaty of Toulon would solidify this trade regime, and the FTC/RMC would essentially strangle and absorb into their sphere of influence smaller states such as Venice, Genoa, and Ragusa. In spite of Spanish attempts at halting this trade, The Franco-Ottoman navies would defeat a Porto-Spanish fleet off the Corsican coast in 1687.

    Development in both countries became spotty and uneven. The South of France is even more independent, dominant even, of the rest of France, though it's tempered by Atlantic ports access to New France, and Parisian demographic clout. Industrial techniques from Bengal are arriving in the Ottoman Empire around this time, increasing productivity of textile makers particularly in Egypt, which has begun wagging the Ottoman dog. Large parts of France struggle to urbanize as food product is siphoned off to a growing Ottoman Empire. Development in France is concentrated on the Southern coast as the FTC sucks Italy and North Africa dry of wealth. Marseilles is fucking massive and vibrant, as are Alexandria and Beirut.

    France, in addition to having maybe the third or fourth largest economy on the planet, behind China, Bengal, and maybe the Ottomans, dominates European continental commerce, rerouting Ottoman goods through Lyon and Paris before going to London, Cologne, and Warsaw. Raw goods from the Americas flow to France, where they are processed and sold to the captive Mediterranean market. In turn, that wealth is used to buy Ottoman goods to sell to the European market. Mercantilism stays relatively fringe as most involved are seeing increased wealth.

    However, backlash is brewing: The RMC and FTC are both looking to expand their profits, perhaps at the expense of the other; The political rift between the metropolitan South and Paris is growing; as is the rift between Anatolia and the Southeast corner of the Mediterranean; Some north/central French provinces are seeing refeudalization to capitalize on the demand for food; silver from the Americas and Asia is starting to cause inflation; Outside powers from Persia, Austria, Spain, to even Bengal and Morocco are looking jealously at the Franco-Turkish bloc. The Bengali discovery of gold and the inflation it causes will ultimately cause the King in Paris to sever the bond between the Ottomans and French in favor of pure mercantilism. But this would not be the end of the Franco-Ottoman story.
     
  13. SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    MOTF184(2)preview.png MOTF184(3)preview.png

    The Third Rome emerges!
     
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  14. SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    Let's go and see how dark we can get...

    Crimes of the United States


    Under Communism


    Main Article: US Human Rights Violations under St. Louis Regime
    See also: Federal Management Lands, Popenoe Sterilization Direction, Atrocities in US-Canadian War#US atrocities, Racism in the United States,
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  15. Threadmarks: Challenge Accepted Mega-post

    SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    Time for a mega-post collecting various ideas I unceremoniously yoink from across the board. Quoted, of course.


    (A smaller, more diasporic Islam is my kind of jam)

    I
    Let's fuck up the Spanish Golden Age with some good ole fashion European drama
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
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  16. Threadmarks: Hanonah is Forever

    SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    Hanonah4AEprev2.png

    Hanonah: 25 largest cities and 5 largest geographic communities


    History of Hanonah



    The First people of Hanonah are the inhabitants of Hanonah for at least 13,000 years. Scientific investigation states that the First Peoples descended from two groups of peoples moving across the Bering Strait Land Bridge during the last Ice Age. The first group now comprises the majority of native cultures in Hanonah, while the second group consists of the Athabascan speaking people of Hanonah.


    Several great civilizations were built beginning in 7400s p.r.[1] with precursors to the Mogollon and Hohokam peoples in the southwest desert country. Around the 5400s p.r. the first mound-builders arose in the lower Mississippi River Valley, starting a traditions which would continue until around the time of the Great Dying. Sedentary society and basic forms of slavery began. It is partially from these moundbuilding cultures and their descendants that the modern Hanony takes inspiration for modern mounds and pyramids. Around 529 p.r. the Haudenosaunee founded the Six Nations based on their Great Law of Peace.


    The European Invasion of Hanonah and the Great Dying began simultaneously in 437 p.r. when Christopher Columbus sailed to the current West Indies. Old World diseases like smallpox and measles spread, killing an estimated 90% of the population in some areas. It is said this is when Hanonah began a slow spiritual deterioration into a thin place where the dead and the living approach one another’s realms with greater frequency.


    The first old-worlders to Hanonah were Spaniards, a Mediterranean people who would occupy great swathes of the southwest and modern Florida. The French would occupy the Great Lakes region, and colonize parts of the Mississippi basin from Chicago to Sobequia[2]. The English would settle much of the rest of the East Coast. All of these peoples brought chattel slavery to Hanonah, loved and feared the God of Abraham, and all tended to possess material advantages over the First peoples. Generally through warfare and deception, the Europeans took land from the First peoples, though even in this period there were families being made across the boundaries of culture and race. Some historians of Hanonah will talk of the Hanony Triangle; The Nubian, Atlantean/Asiatic, and the First Peoples[3]. It described a situation where all three races could not cooperate without harming another, with two sides of the triangle often acting against the third. The ruling bourgeoisie of these races and the proletariat alike often saw themselves primarily in these terms, to the benefit of the bourgeoisie class. It was the Revolution which awakened class consciousness as the unifier of the races of Hanonah.


    In this period, the Europeans would war for access to resources and lands to control. These campaigns, along with a growing division of interest, would weaken the bonds between the ruling classes of the colonies and the metropoles, and The Federal Republic would form in 153 p.r. The Federal republic was a country driven by the interests of the bourgeoisie Atlanteans. It maintained a slavocracy of Nubian peoples and would violently appropriate land from the First people to further accumulation. The rapid growth of the country whittled down to aggressive and war-like dogma and opportune moments acted upon. The Federal Republic would bring its model of violent accumulation to the Pacific Coast and beyond, occupying and annexing Hawaii and the Philippines for a brief time.
     
  17. SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    The US & Andean Federation

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    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  18. Tyche Hand of Providence

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    Hell yeah! This is such a cool world you made, can’t wait to see any more. That US is so messy I love it
     
  19. SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    I'll post the isolated 'factions' with a more indepth look at each.
     
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  20. SpazzReflex Induce vomiting if contacted

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    [​IMG]
     
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