Map: Three-bloc Cold War

^ Ridwan, you are msising the fact that if Indonesia DID pull a full scale assault on West Papua in this TL the Aussies would flip, hit back, and almost immediately unless both sides backed off the US and PRC would be in it in no time. The only reason the invasion worked in OTL was because President Ford wanted Sukarno on his side and Australia was in the midst of a constitutional and political crisis at the time. (Not to mention that bastard Bjelke-Petersen and his racism not liking the Papuans.)

Indonesia would have to get the Aussies out of the way before West Papua is in play. More than likely, Papua New Guinea - all of it - would become Australia's seventh state, with full representation in Canberra, because if Indonesia is a key player in a rival bloc no way is the US going to allow Indonesia to even threaten Australia, and if Australia wants to keep New Guinea, they'll be able to. The end of the White Australia policy in 1973 and simply changing political attitudes in Australia would allow New Guinea to integrate into Australia fairly easily. Especially once Bjelke-Petersen goes down in flames, like he inevitably will. :)
 
Questions and observations:

1) Again I must ask what's happening in Israel/Palestine.

2) Why is North Korea in the Warsaw Pact?

3) I have to say that I find it unlikely for Malaysia and Albania to end up in the Bandung Accord.

4) As has been said before, what's up with Namibia?

5) You should not have treated the Arab League as some sort of side to the Cold War. South Yemen should be a Soviet ally (otherwise Yemen would be united), Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania, Oman, and the UAE (and Kuwait and Qatar?) should be in the Arab League no matter what other committments they have, and I would have expected Egypt to be a founding member of the Bandung Accords.

6) How was the situation in Cyprus solved?

7) Shouldn't Turkey be in both NATO and CENTO?

8) What happened to Western Sahara? According to the map it's not Spanish, Moroccan or Mauritanian. Is it independent or was that a slip-up?

9) If it's 1980 then Spain got in NATO 6 years earlier than in OTL. That would suggest an earlier end to the dictatorship.

^ Ridwan, you are msising the fact that if Indonesia DID pull a full scale assault on West Papua in this TL the Aussies would flip, hit back, and almost immediately unless both sides backed off the US and PRC would be in it in no time. The only reason the invasion worked in OTL was because President Ford wanted Sukarno on his side and Australia was in the midst of a constitutional and political crisis at the time. (Not to mention that bastard Bjelke-Petersen and his racism not liking the Papuans.)

You're talking about East Timor in '75 here (Suharto in Indonesia, Ford in the US, Bjelke-Petersen in Queensland, Australian constitutional crisis; 3 out of 4 - you made a Su*ar*o mix-up, quite excusable). West Papua entered Indonesian administration in '63 (Sukarno in Indonesia, Kennedy in the US, Frank Nicklin in Queensland, no Australian constitutional crisis; 1 out of 4) and was annexed in '69 (Suharto in Indonesia, Nixon in the US, Bjelke-Petersen in Queensland, no Australian constitutional crisis; 1 out of 4).
 
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^ Ridwan, you are msising the fact that if Indonesia DID pull a full scale assault on West Papua in this TL the Aussies would flip, hit back, and almost immediately unless both sides backed off the US and PRC would be in it in no time. The only reason the invasion worked in OTL was because President Ford wanted Sukarno on his side and Australia was in the midst of a constitutional and political crisis at the time. (Not to mention that bastard Bjelke-Petersen and his racism not liking the Papuans.)

Indonesia would have to get the Aussies out of the way before West Papua is in play. More than likely, Papua New Guinea - all of it - would become Australia's seventh state, with full representation in Canberra, because if Indonesia is a key player in a rival bloc no way is the US going to allow Indonesia to even threaten Australia, and if Australia wants to keep New Guinea, they'll be able to. The end of the White Australia policy in 1973 and simply changing political attitudes in Australia would allow New Guinea to integrate into Australia fairly easily. Especially once Bjelke-Petersen goes down in flames, like he inevitably will. :)

I never said the full scale invasion would be immune from failing, did I ?

But unless suddenly Australia supports him, knowing Sukarno's persitence (well he wasn't alone, most of Indonesian public were behind him...) in this matter Indonesian invasion is kinda a given.

Operation Trikora wasn't a full scale invasion, let alone purely conventional one, when it was just a finishing touch on step-by-step dropping of volunteers and trained guerrillas into the territory. TNI planned to launch a truly conventional full scale of barrage under the name "Operasi Jaya Wijaya" in case Trikora would be a failure. If Jaya Wijaya had launched, I wonder how the Indonesian 16 thousands troops would fare in West Papua.....

The bolded parts : WTF !?
 
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I don't think China would back Sukarno over West Papua. They don't have nukes that can reach the USA yet and the vast majority of the PLA is still aimed at the Soviet Union. China just haven't got the force projection to pull this off and neither dose Indonesia. They're fighting several ongoing rebellions which are probably much better armed than in our TL. Suharto has probably lunched his coup and had it fail which means Sukarno will probably lunch a purge of the army.

JFK was already reluctant about handing over West Papua and if the TNI attempts a full scale invasion the USA is going to get involved.
Indonisia just can't win this thing.
 
I don't think China would back Sukarno over West Papua. They don't have nukes that can reach the USA yet and the vast majority of the PLA is still aimed at the Soviet Union. China just haven't got the force projection to pull this off and neither dose Indonesia. They're fighting several ongoing rebellions which are probably much better armed than in our TL. Suharto has probably lunched his coup and had it fail which means Sukarno will probably lunch a purge of the army.

JFK was already reluctant about handing over West Papua and if the TNI attempts a full scale invasion the USA is going to get involved.
Indonisia just can't win this thing.

Agree. But if US should be involved in a fight against Indonesia I don't think they can deal with Vietnam with bare free hands. Heh, I doubt when allies already managed to secure West Papua, they will be content with just it, because Indonesia is now has gone solidly left ! ITTL US should become busier in South East Asia. Indonesia's presence in this Bandung Accord Alliance, and actually the original nature of the alliance its self, just can't be mantained if we cannot find a way to make everybody accept Indonesia's claim over West Papua, I'm afraid.
 
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1) Again I must ask what's happening in Israel/Palestine.

Haven't really planned it out. Israel is a member of CENTO and has allies in the region. Not sure what the state of the PLO is.

2) Why is North Korea in the Warsaw Pact?

They should actually be considered a Soviet ally.

3) I have to say that I find it unlikely for Malaysia and Albania to end up in the Bandung Accord.

Former is a Non-Aligned Movement member, latter was a key Chinese ally in the Cold War.

4) As has been said before, what's up with Namibia?

Not sure. My map of Latin America and Africa is woefully incomplete.

5) You should not have treated the Arab League as some sort of side to the Cold War. South Yemen should be a Soviet ally (otherwise Yemen would be united), Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania, Oman, and the UAE (and Kuwait and Qatar?) should be in the Arab League no matter what other committments they have, and I would have expected Egypt to be a founding member of the Bandung Accords.

Yeah, probably. Though Egypt might be in both Bandung and the Arab League, and the Arab League is meant to be more of a Chinese/Bandung Accord ally than the Soviets'.

6) How was the situation in Cyprus solved?

Wasn't really.

7) Shouldn't Turkey be in both NATO and CENTO?

Both organizations are closely connected, Turkey has a role in NATO but is also a key leader of CENTO.

8) What happened to Western Sahara? According to the map it's not Spanish, Moroccan or Mauritanian. Is it independent or was that a slip-up?

Slip-up.

9) If it's 1980 then Spain got in NATO 6 years earlier than in OTL. That would suggest an earlier end to the dictatorship.

Another slip-up.
 
Indonesia's presence in this Bandung Accord Alliance, and actually the original nature of the alliance its self, just can't be mantained if we cannot find a way to make everybody accept Indonesia's claim over West Papua, I'm afraid.

Indonesia's claim over West Papua would probably be seen much the same as the Argentine claim over the Falklands - technically out there, but operationally irrelevant. Indonesia has no way of taking it, the Aussies damn sure won't give it to them.
 
Ever heard of Sukarno say anything about the Pacific colonies ? The name "Asia-Africa" for the conference was actually pretty accurate.

Yeah but who knows what Soekarno would do. If he thought he could have taken on Australia and stood to gain something from it he would have probably done it.

Another matter, if West Papua is Asia, then PNG is Asia too, same with the rest of the pacific. The Bandung Conference was about third world solidarity (and Soekarno's monumental ego, look a monas, giant golden tiped penus if i ever saw one), If there had been indepedent pacific Island countries at the time then their would have been Islander delegations.
 
Haven't really planned it out. Israel is a member of CENTO and has allies in the region.

I don't see how it can share CENTO membership with states that don't recognize it (Pakistan, the Arab members).

Former is a Non-Aligned Movement member, latter was a key Chinese ally in the Cold War.

Everybody and their brother was in the NAM, that doesn't mean anything. Look at the state of Indonesian-Malaysian relations under Sukarno. They're more likely to side with the US, Britain and Australia than a militant Indonesia.

As for Albania, they were buddies with Mao after '61, back when he was accusing the Soviets of betraying communism - because Hoxha agreed. They split with the Chinese in the mid or late '70s because they were still as fanatically communist as before. I do not see Hoxha's Albania joining an organization that makes a big deal of its non-alignment - in this OTL they're more likely to be Soviet allies.

Though Egypt might be in both Bandung and the Arab League, and the Arab League is meant to be more of a Chinese/Bandung Accord ally than the Soviets'.

That's my whole point, the Arab League includes (and should include) plenty of states that should be members of other organizations as well. Just don't bother showing it.

Both organizations are closely connected, Turkey has a role in NATO but is also a key leader of CENTO.

So show it striped.
 
1) Yeah but who knows what Soekarno would do. If he thought he could have taken on Australia and stood to gain something from it he would have probably done it.

2) Another matter, if West Papua is Asia, then PNG is Asia too, same with the rest of the pacific. The Bandung Conference was about third world solidarity (and Soekarno's monumental ego, look a monas, giant golden tiped penus if i ever saw one), If there had been indepedent pacific Island countries at the time then their would have been Islander delegations.

1) He wanted to restore the unity of the territories that was held together by Dutch-made engine before the invasion of Japan, and reform it according to his democratic(at first) and socialist visions. Hence why you're not going to expect Indonesia annexing anything other than ex-NEI territories under him, as an observer from present day.

2) Because we know that's what applies today.... :rolleyes: And of course you have got to mock anything Sukarno made because he ever took anti-western stance. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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Indonesia's claim over West Papua would probably be seen much the same as the Argentine claim over the Falklands - technically out there, but operationally irrelevant. Indonesia has no way of taking it, the Aussies damn sure won't give it to them.

Then you already know how this Bandung Accord will gonna end. Or at least Indonesia's association with the body.
 
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