could be worse. My state of Tennessee has been circumcised. I will riot if I see another map like this.
Map Thread XXII
- Thread starter Balkanized U.S.A
- Start date
What? It's just a regular Latvia.
No, Muscovy is the gold capital dot on the right of the upper left map.
I’m sorry to say this but the worst borders on the map (the UP) come directly from OTL 😭
Oh shoot another Tennessean, hot damn (sorry about that but as an ETN resident I had to make Watauga real, at least y’all have 37N now)
I'm from East Tennessee as well. If you want we can have a real man's fight over this.
I'm joking. Partially.
Anyways, onto a map that'll make me scream. A Disunited States map. In this the Federal Government collapses after talks fail to provide a standardized governing body for the nation as the states that were broke away. Many states would be stuck clashing with one another in what would become known as the "Great Chaos". The "Great Chaos" of the 1790's would see the complete dissolution of Washington's Dream and would be the great "What If" of the future on what a United States would have looked like.
However it would have been, many scholars do not know. What they do know is that many states and people's were displaced, with many moving West.
The Northern War of 1798 was what finally got the disunited states to unite together. many states including New York and Massachusetts were overrun by the Red Coats, who aimed to retake the Thirteen Colonies by force. The Former colonies, seeing this united militarily for the last time, driving the British back once more. some Territories in Pennsylvania, New York and of course Massachusetts would be retaken. Most of these territories would be absorbed by Pennsylvania and Massachusetts, however an Independent city state in New York would be made a buffer state of the two. Massachusetts would also become the first Monarchy in the U.S, lead by the Adams Dynasty, from John I Adams all the way down to the current King Charles IV Adams.
Down in the south the Chaos would be quite harsh. The Republic of Georgia and the Republic of Virginia would reign supreme, and with the collapse of Spain in Europe after Napoleon's conquest, the Republic of Georgia would Invade the Spanish Caribbean, taking Florida and after excessive naval combat and a bloody invasion of Cuba, the entirety of the Island.
Speaking of Napoleon, Napoleon himself would begin selling off the colony of Louisiana to wealthy American's, who would take the lands and settle them. The lands would be sold in pieces, and after selling off much of the land, Pierre-Clément de Laussat would declare independence from the Empire of France, declaring a Republic of Louisiana.
For a time things would be peaceful, however in the the 1830's and 1840's things would once more stir.
in 1834 Joseph Smith, a so called Prophet of the Mormon people would lead his followers west, into the lands inhabited by the Indians. There he would set up a city on the Mississippi known as Nauvoo and declare himself King of Nauvoo. The Mormon faith would spread from here, and with it came blood. Indians given a choice, convert or die, and as such many chose not to convert, giving way to the Mormon burnings of the Indian villages. Many would be killed, and many more would flee west.
Eventually a schism would occur in 1838, where in Joseph Smith would exile WIlliam Law and his followers, who would flee west, into the lands of what is now New Canaan.
In the south a slave revolt would begin in the Republic of Georgia. Starting in Savanna these former slaves would wreck havoc on the south. using Guerilla warfare they would ambush Georgian armies and massacre whole town's, before freeing all slaves they came across. The New Africa movement of the south, commonly referred to as the "Black Horde's" by many white Southerners, would be the bane and eventual downfall of Georgia. The New Africa Movement, Lead by Nat Turner would run wild in the south, eventually spreading to Virginia. These people's would further flee west, and with this Chaos would once more spread. The Georgian Collapse would begin, with Davy Crockett declaring himself President of Tennessee, and declaring war on Georgia, and eventually it would become too much, Georgia would fall.
Davy Crockett would dispatch General Andrew Jackson to put down the slave revolt, and he would. The Savannah Massacre would end in Nat Turner being strung up, and over 19'000 escaped African slaves being put to death.
Further west more problems would emerge. In the lands inhabited by the Republic of Mexico problems emerged. The Mexican's needed manpower in their northern most territories, and to have such they employed American's escaping the Great Chaos. These men and women would boom in numbers, eventually out populating Mexican's in the regions of northern Mexico. Some would even flee west to the West Coast, where there would also be booming numbers of Americans.
Eventually in 1843 the republic's of California, Texas and New Canaan would emerge. an increased tax imposed by the Mexicans upon Americans would strangle the American's economic strength leading to Rebellion.
It would be a long and grueling war, one fought for a decade, however in 1855 Mexico would grant Independence to the nations in the Treaty of Austin. There would be peace for a time, until the Texan Revolution of 1856, where Samuel Houston would declare himself Emperor of Texas.
To the west chaos in California. To the north were the Vermontese, who had fled west after the British Invasion long ago. Many of the Vermontese would find California as a good place to find home, and eventually most of the Vermontese Diaspora would gather there. However to the south Georgian's would make the bulk of American's in the Republic, keeping towards their Dixie descent. In the middle, people of Pennsylvanian descent made up the bulk of the government, and in 1961 they would declare slavery outlawed.
This declaration would end in a revolt in the south, and after the Californian's would attempt to conscript the Vermontese they would declare a Republic of New Vermont in their stead. Eventually peace would reign, but not for long.
in the 1840's the Scramble for Oregon would take place as American's would spread further west. The British, wanting to halt any American's laid claim over the land, however the American's would beat them to it. A large group of settler's lead by Abraham Lincoln would reach the Salish Sea, setting up the city of Washington. Eventually a British invasion would take place, but would be beaten back by the settler's. Due to his finesse in the Seige Abraham Lincoln would be declared King of Oregon.
That's the lore. at least what I came up with.
edit: I wanted to go more in depth, but my wives here. I'm gonna be fishing now... fishing in the best of places. see ya.
Second edit: just to piss people off, New York's most influential family is the Trump Family. Trumpisattva forever.
Last edited:
there's a broad strip of northern Russia (the area between Novgorod and Finland) which looks to my admittedly aged eyes just like the Latvia color. And the gold dot in the blue area is quite a ways to east of Moscow, unless you're saying there's a whole other city named Muscovy (which I'm fairly sure is a foreign exonym for early Russia)
The one you see in the north is green while Latvia is a more brown-ish colour. It is the country mentioned as "Ugria" in the list of neighboring countries I think. Includes Estonia and OTL Leningrad Oblast (aka Ingria) and presumably also inlcudes Finland and perhaps some other places.
I am not 100% certain on Moscow, but I think MultiplePOD probably has it right.
Last edited:
Congratulations, Gokbay, you're right about Latvia! It's not part of Ugria. Ugria includes Finland, Estonia, Ingria, Karelia, and a very large chunk of northern Scandinavia; it also stretches east to Yamalia. (I've attached the most recent world map.)
I'm pretty sure that's where Moscow belongs. Where do you think it belongs?
Attachments
the basemap appears to be larger than I thought. it does somewhat bring into question how Novgorod avoided being swallowed by Muscovy, but I'm too annoyed at myself to go any further into the weeds.
answer: sufficiently far back PoD (well, the first one, anyway) that no such state as Russia ever existed west of the Urals
and I'd love for you to enter the weeds! it'll be fun, trust me
Alternative outcome of the Time of Troubles for Russia, which for the short time becomes quasi-republic, Zemsky Sobor plays the role of representative body and Council of All Land (Sovet vseia zemli) is the government.
This is a very short description, I don't want to write walls of text of all about everything, so I decided to specify the details that I considered important.
Almost finished map (except for a bar in the upper left corner, I made it a long time ago). It represents an alternative outcome of the Time of Troubles for Russia: the Cossacks, who burst into Moscow as part of the Second People's Militia, slaughtered the entire ranks of the local boyars for "companionship with the enemy" (for the Cossacks it did not matter with whom and whether there was collaboration), as a result - the Zemsky Sobor is disrupted, there is no one to choose who to put on the throne. In the absence of a candidate that would be acceptable to all, the elites present at the Zemsky Sobor came to a compromise. The Zemsky Sobor became a representative body, convened every few years to decide on the most important issues of the state life. The Zemsky Sobor was divided into four chambers - the Servants' Duma (Sluzhilaya Duma), where the nobility sat; the Consecrated Sobor (Osvyaschenny Sobor) consisted of the clergy; the Guest Sobor (Gostiny Sobor) gathered representatives of the merchants, who strengthened their positions after the almost complete destruction of the boyars and thanks to the active financial support of the Second Militia; and the Hundreds Sobor (Sotenny Sobor), where free residents of the townships and the wealthiest and most prominent representatives of the state peasants were admitted. The number of seats was limited and allocated by razryads and krais administrations. The filling order of these seats was determined by local voivodes and namestniks.
In the period between the convocations of the Sobors, the country was governed by a collegial body - the Council of All Land (Sovet vseia zemli), which included the most influential representatives of the elite. Each member of the Council also held the position of the head of one or another prikaz, the informal head of the Council was the Chief Voivode.
This system of government remained in place until the end of the 1620s, when the Zemsky Sobor adopted the Governing Sentences, which eliminated the Council of All Land and elected Prince Ivan Borisovich Cherkassky, who had previously been the Chief Voivode, Tsar of All Russia. The role of the Zemsky Sobor after that significantly decreased, and it began to be convened much less frequently.
Despite the seemingly broad role of the people in the governance of the country through participation in the Zemsky Sobors, in fact, everything was ruled by the Council of All the Land, which for all the time of its existence did not change its composition. The Council formed local authorities, and those in turn ensured the promotion of initiatives needed by the Council at the Zemsky Sobors. The Council itself was dominated by the Cherkassky clan in alliance with the Stroganovs, so there was no open opposition between the members of the Council.
Almost finished map (except for a bar in the upper left corner, I made it a long time ago). It represents an alternative outcome of the Time of Troubles for Russia: the Cossacks, who burst into Moscow as part of the Second People's Militia, slaughtered the entire ranks of the local boyars for "companionship with the enemy" (for the Cossacks it did not matter with whom and whether there was collaboration), as a result - the Zemsky Sobor is disrupted, there is no one to choose who to put on the throne. In the absence of a candidate that would be acceptable to all, the elites present at the Zemsky Sobor came to a compromise. The Zemsky Sobor became a representative body, convened every few years to decide on the most important issues of the state life. The Zemsky Sobor was divided into four chambers - the Servants' Duma (Sluzhilaya Duma), where the nobility sat; the Consecrated Sobor (Osvyaschenny Sobor) consisted of the clergy; the Guest Sobor (Gostiny Sobor) gathered representatives of the merchants, who strengthened their positions after the almost complete destruction of the boyars and thanks to the active financial support of the Second Militia; and the Hundreds Sobor (Sotenny Sobor), where free residents of the townships and the wealthiest and most prominent representatives of the state peasants were admitted. The number of seats was limited and allocated by razryads and krais administrations. The filling order of these seats was determined by local voivodes and namestniks.
In the period between the convocations of the Sobors, the country was governed by a collegial body - the Council of All Land (Sovet vseia zemli), which included the most influential representatives of the elite. Each member of the Council also held the position of the head of one or another prikaz, the informal head of the Council was the Chief Voivode.
This system of government remained in place until the end of the 1620s, when the Zemsky Sobor adopted the Governing Sentences, which eliminated the Council of All Land and elected Prince Ivan Borisovich Cherkassky, who had previously been the Chief Voivode, Tsar of All Russia. The role of the Zemsky Sobor after that significantly decreased, and it began to be convened much less frequently.
Despite the seemingly broad role of the people in the governance of the country through participation in the Zemsky Sobors, in fact, everything was ruled by the Council of All the Land, which for all the time of its existence did not change its composition. The Council formed local authorities, and those in turn ensured the promotion of initiatives needed by the Council at the Zemsky Sobors. The Council itself was dominated by the Cherkassky clan in alliance with the Stroganovs, so there was no open opposition between the members of the Council.
With Russia having a Commonwealth-esque republican interlude before the rise of the Cherkassy Dynasty, what do you see being the long-term impact of a precedent for parliamentary government in Russia?
Very cool idea! But I don't seem to be able to see the full-sized image.[/spoiler]
Why do you always show the Sahara as an unclaimed and uninhabited wasteland when it is neither?
Yeah. Whilst Sahara is very sparsely populated there is people around and owned by nations. It is not something like Antarctica.
True.
I think showing the borders and maybe a more faded away version of the state colours would be more accurate.