Can we haz Bhutan wank?Did you expect anything else?
Three-way India is pretty interesting as a concept tbh. Although isn’t the major cultural fault line between the north and south? Like between Indo-Aryan and Dravidian?
Map Thread XXI
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Three-way India is pretty interesting as a concept tbh. Although isn’t the major cultural fault line between the north and south? Like between Indo-Aryan and Dravidian?
Nah, South and Central parts of India, essentially Deccan and Coastal regions of India have been very much part of one another and the Aryan-Dravidian divide was exaggerated during British and post independent India. Infact India already had a Tripartite struggle before
I think Indira Gandhi, Catherine II, Cixi, Margaret Thatcher, etc. show that 50/50 gender equality in world leaders wouldn't really mean a more peaceful or kinder world.
I love the Maldivian wank in the background there. How'd they get the Andamans? Do they have Diego Garcia too?INDIA AS THE PORTUGUESE FOUND IN 1498When the Portuguese arrived in India in 1498, the Indian Subcontinent was undergoing what was called the Era of Three Empires/Era of Three Emperors. The Era of Three Emperors stretch back all the way to the 1370s. In 1372, a Shia rebellion in Pashto Lands, led by Shah Jafar Al-Tahir defeated his regional lords, and carved out his own Shiite state in the region. Instead of focusing on the rich Persian lands to the west, Al-Tahir focused on the lush Indian Subcontinent, and with his martial prowess, began to carve out his own Shiite Empire in the region. In 1442, his great-grandson, Manzur II declared himself to be the Shia Caliph - in the likeness of the Fatimid Caliphate of old, establishing a new Caliphate again, thus founding the Tahirid Caliphate. In 1392, Raja Jayastithi Malla was on a campaign of reuniting Nepal under the banner of the Malla Dynasty and his own personal faith - Vajrayana Buddhism. The Battle of Pyalpa ended in resounding Malla victory, allowing Jayasthiti Malla to reunite Nepal under his banner in 1398. In the 1420s, Nepala and the Tahirids allied with one another to bring down the Delhi Sultanate, succeeding where the past enemies of the Delhi Sultanate had failed. But this alliance was starting to collapse as new interests took hold of both governments. In the south, the Vijayanagara Empire defeated the ascendant Bahmani Sultanate in the 1460s, sweeping its power to the north as well. By the 1480s, most of India was divided along the three empires, and their satellite states in the subcontinent. As Vasco de Gama said upon returning to Portugal, "India is in the Age of 3 Empires."
Thoughts and Comments?
I do hate to do more self-promotion, but I do think this thread has been a little slow lately, so here's another OTL worlda.
If you guys don't mind, I'll consider posting these here regularly (as well as the nextgen worlda thread).
Although my quibblings about plausibility may make it seem otherwise, I've been very impressed by both the quantity and quality of the maps you've been putting out lately. Bravo!
Heh.Eh, the base map i had didn't show Srinagar, and i was too confused to accurately keep it so.......yeah
Directly above jammu, slightly to the right. On the same level as the word Kashmir would be my guess.
Oof.
Tributary would have been far easier than establishing Kashmir as a vassal state.
Kashmir hasn't historically well received vassalhood. (Well other than Lalitaditya making himself a Tang vassal and giving Chinese military base in kashmir. )
Don't want to derail it so I will just give you a short summary of mughal conquest.
Mughals initially wanted Kashmir as vassal state. They were summarily rebuffed. Over sixty years, Mughals made quite a few attempts on taking kashmir. All but the last one failed. And during this time, only one king entertained the thought of becoming a vassal to mughals to put an end to the wars. He got death threats from his courtiers when he said that.
It's a national secret, but this is actually NZ's defense plan incase of WWIII; slowly remove ourselves from maps so everyone forgets we are here.
Good to see the Vijayanagara doing well here. I hope breaking up the Bahmani Sultanate works out better for them here than in OTL.
Brilliant, brilliant...
Emperor-of-New-Zealand
Kicked
Don't tell them that. The Americans will try to plant nukes here again.
Mughals are looming......INDIA AS THE PORTUGUESE FOUND IN 1498When the Portuguese arrived in India in 1498, the Indian Subcontinent was undergoing what was called the Era of Three Empires/Era of Three Emperors. The Era of Three Emperors stretch back all the way to the 1370s. In 1372, a Shia rebellion in Pashto Lands, led by Shah Jafar Al-Tahir defeated his regional lords, and carved out his own Shiite state in the region. Instead of focusing on the rich Persian lands to the west, Al-Tahir focused on the lush Indian Subcontinent, and with his martial prowess, began to carve out his own Shiite Empire in the region. In 1442, his great-grandson, Manzur II declared himself to be the Shia Caliph - in the likeness of the Fatimid Caliphate of old, establishing a new Caliphate again, thus founding the Tahirid Caliphate. In 1392, Raja Jayastithi Malla was on a campaign of reuniting Nepal under the banner of the Malla Dynasty and his own personal faith - Vajrayana Buddhism. The Battle of Pyalpa ended in resounding Malla victory, allowing Jayasthiti Malla to reunite Nepal under his banner in 1398. In the 1420s, Nepala and the Tahirids allied with one another to bring down the Delhi Sultanate, succeeding where the past enemies of the Delhi Sultanate had failed. But this alliance was starting to collapse as new interests took hold of both governments. In the south, the Vijayanagara Empire defeated the ascendant Bahmani Sultanate in the 1460s, sweeping its power to the north as well. By the 1480s, most of India was divided along the three empires, and their satellite states in the subcontinent. As Vasco de Gama said upon returning to Portugal, "India is in the Age of 3 Empires."
Thoughts and Comments?
Bengal under Nepal, does this mean Islamisation of Bengal has been butterflied away? In any case, Buddhism will come back strong in its old holdout. Aryan scums beware😁.
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Quick map I made of the Old World of Warhammer Fantasy for a planned Nation Game set in 50IC at Sigmar's abdication of the Throne and the start of the Age of Elected Emperors.
Where would Sylvania be in relation to this?
Quick map I made of the Old World of Warhammer Fantasy for a planned Nation Game set in 50IC at Sigmar's abdication of the Throne and the start of the Age of Elected Emperors.
Still outside the rule of the Empire under the Fennones.
Bharata: the Center of the World in the Industrial Revolution, by wildviper121
Quick post--there's more down the pipeline including a full worlda map, political and religious, but I wanted to get this out there.
BHARATA: THE CENTER OF THE WORLD IN THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION
HISTORY
1389: Sultan Tughluq Khan of Delhi catches wind of the plot to assassinate him and has the conspirators executed. As a result, Delhi is not in the midst of a succession crisis when Timur is looking for his next empire to sack. Instead, the great conqueror launches his invasion of the Levant (a few years earlier than OTL), sacking Aleppo, Damascus, and even Ankara. After years of conquest, Constantinople is sacked as well—spelling the end for both the Ottoman and Byzantine Empires. Timur dies in 1402 from illness, though his successors are just as destructive and nearly sack Rome as well, leaving much of south-eastern Europe in ashes.
Delhi, however, has been spared Timur’s wrath. It lives onward as a great city, driving scientific progress in the region. Without a strong power in the Middle East, the Mediterranean kingdoms get a better deal on spice trades with India—at the cost of ongoing crusades which distract them from any possible expansion westward.
The Delhi Sultanate, while lasting longer, does not dominate the entire continent. Competition between Delhi, the Sultanate of Bengal, and the Vijayanagara Empire in the south. Competition drives innovation: gunpowder and matchlocks, lateen sailed ships, and star fortresses are widespread earlier.
The Tamil Empire, closed out of European markets by deals between Vijayanagara and Palermo, looks for alternative routes to the European markets. Traders round the horn of Africa in 1504, soon selling its spices directly to the Europeans. There’s a bigger market, however: China. With the Malay Empire’s prohibitive trade taxes, Tamil explorers daringly cross the Atlantic to get a direct route. Instead, they find the New World. Diseases wreak havoc on the indigenous empires. The Inka are conquered by the Tamils, while the Aztecs are conquered by Vijayanagara.
Other Indian states hope to replicate the success of the southerners, most successfully Bengal and Gujarat. Colonies expand rapidly as people search for new work and gold. African slave labor is used extensively in the equatorial sugar plantations and mines, once indigenous people collapse from disease.
The Vijayanagara, perhaps overextended, perhaps because of overinflation, does collapse at the hands of its enemies. The balance of power is broken and war breaks out across the whole of India, chiefly between the Muslim powers of the north (Delhi, Gujarat, and Bangla) and the Dharmic powers of the south (Telangana, Marhatta, and Tamil). These religious wars drives religious radicalism, state centralization, and institutionalization. Its end comes as Sikhs rebel in Delhi, defeating the sultanate.
While a new status quo has emerged, the balance of power is not unchanging. Deforestation has driven innovation: coal is a growing source of energy, driving the invention of steam engines. First Bengal industrializes, followed by Telangana and the Tamils.
Meanwhile, the religious wars, with their increased contact with those of different religions and cultures, gives rise to nationalism. Supported by kings (a few of whom are elected by elites) who hope to govern more pliable populations, national identities starken the divide between in-groups and out-groups. Followed soon afterward by racial science, the northern Aryan-Muslim half of the subcontinent and the southern Dravidian-Dharmic half begin to see themselves in eternal opposition to each other. (The reality, of course, is much more nuanced.)
Industrialization, of course, brings greater capacity for expansion. Aboard steamships, carrying rifles and eventually machine guns, Indians would expand to places they’d never been able to before. No one can stand in the way of Indian imperialism, which washes across the globe like a tidal wave.
STATES:
BHARATA: THE CENTER OF THE WORLD IN THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION
HISTORY
1389: Sultan Tughluq Khan of Delhi catches wind of the plot to assassinate him and has the conspirators executed. As a result, Delhi is not in the midst of a succession crisis when Timur is looking for his next empire to sack. Instead, the great conqueror launches his invasion of the Levant (a few years earlier than OTL), sacking Aleppo, Damascus, and even Ankara. After years of conquest, Constantinople is sacked as well—spelling the end for both the Ottoman and Byzantine Empires. Timur dies in 1402 from illness, though his successors are just as destructive and nearly sack Rome as well, leaving much of south-eastern Europe in ashes.
Delhi, however, has been spared Timur’s wrath. It lives onward as a great city, driving scientific progress in the region. Without a strong power in the Middle East, the Mediterranean kingdoms get a better deal on spice trades with India—at the cost of ongoing crusades which distract them from any possible expansion westward.
The Delhi Sultanate, while lasting longer, does not dominate the entire continent. Competition between Delhi, the Sultanate of Bengal, and the Vijayanagara Empire in the south. Competition drives innovation: gunpowder and matchlocks, lateen sailed ships, and star fortresses are widespread earlier.
The Tamil Empire, closed out of European markets by deals between Vijayanagara and Palermo, looks for alternative routes to the European markets. Traders round the horn of Africa in 1504, soon selling its spices directly to the Europeans. There’s a bigger market, however: China. With the Malay Empire’s prohibitive trade taxes, Tamil explorers daringly cross the Atlantic to get a direct route. Instead, they find the New World. Diseases wreak havoc on the indigenous empires. The Inka are conquered by the Tamils, while the Aztecs are conquered by Vijayanagara.
Other Indian states hope to replicate the success of the southerners, most successfully Bengal and Gujarat. Colonies expand rapidly as people search for new work and gold. African slave labor is used extensively in the equatorial sugar plantations and mines, once indigenous people collapse from disease.
The Vijayanagara, perhaps overextended, perhaps because of overinflation, does collapse at the hands of its enemies. The balance of power is broken and war breaks out across the whole of India, chiefly between the Muslim powers of the north (Delhi, Gujarat, and Bangla) and the Dharmic powers of the south (Telangana, Marhatta, and Tamil). These religious wars drives religious radicalism, state centralization, and institutionalization. Its end comes as Sikhs rebel in Delhi, defeating the sultanate.
While a new status quo has emerged, the balance of power is not unchanging. Deforestation has driven innovation: coal is a growing source of energy, driving the invention of steam engines. First Bengal industrializes, followed by Telangana and the Tamils.
Meanwhile, the religious wars, with their increased contact with those of different religions and cultures, gives rise to nationalism. Supported by kings (a few of whom are elected by elites) who hope to govern more pliable populations, national identities starken the divide between in-groups and out-groups. Followed soon afterward by racial science, the northern Aryan-Muslim half of the subcontinent and the southern Dravidian-Dharmic half begin to see themselves in eternal opposition to each other. (The reality, of course, is much more nuanced.)
Industrialization, of course, brings greater capacity for expansion. Aboard steamships, carrying rifles and eventually machine guns, Indians would expand to places they’d never been able to before. No one can stand in the way of Indian imperialism, which washes across the globe like a tidal wave.
STATES:
- Sikh Empire: despite ruling over a diverse population, the Sikhs are repeating the mistakes of the OTL Mughal Empire. Once tolerant and open, the maharajas have begun a program of Sikh dominance. While this has increased conversions, the majority Muslim population has grown resentful, especially considering the ongoing war with the Parsees Empire.
- Hindia: a powerful confederation, where Muslims and Dharmists share power in the name of common nationality and culture. Mass-based politics has arrived, with the Hindi (language, not religion) nationalist party coming to dominance at the cost of many minorities. They hope to carve out an empire of their own, but are surrounded on all sides by powerful enemies.
- Bangla Sultanate: an imperial sultanate that has recently shrugged off its Turko-Persian façade and embraced Bengali culture. The textile manufacturing capital of the world, Bangla is one of the richest states, and uses its rotary-guns and steamships in the name of “free” trade and protecting Muslims worldwide. Its greatest rival is the Tamil Empire, who its hopes to overturn once and for all in a decisive war.
- Gujarat Sultanate: the sultan here has less power and is more Persian than in Bangla. With the most advanced financial institutions in the world, Gujarat has been able to fund wars better than anyone. However, financiers and capitalists have insisted on reforms, pressing for the sultan to be restricted within the bounds of the hierarchical caste-based councils. Nervous about Marhatta’s expansion, it may soon intervene, but is looking for allies for help.
- Utkala: one of the newest states, Utkala was created from dozens of princely states in a Telangana-Bangla treaty. While dominated by Bengal, it does have its own unique institutions: chiefly, a massive council of elected and dynastic leaders from all its constituent entities.
- Marhatta: with an origin in revolution against imperial powers, Marhatta has embraced its Dharmic Marathi identity at the cost of rights for its minorities. It aims to incorporate all Marathis into its state, at the cost of its neighbors. Public practice of Islam is strictly outlawed, and all Muslims face heavy taxes. Dravidians, too, are objects of suspicion and legal harassment.
- Telangana: governed by an alliance between a hereditary monarchy and the industrial elite, Telangana hopes to restrict the social progress erupting across its neighbors. The lack of popular support for the monarchy has led to its poor performance during a decisive war with Marhatta, which aims to seize its empire and annex Marathi territories and will likely succeed.
- Karnata: once the heart of the great Vijayanagara Empire, Karnata sought to revitalize its empire with nationalism, though is still in decline. Nevertheless, it is perhaps the cultural heart of the world. Its particular brand of the Eternal Dharma (Hinduism), which focuses on Shiva, has been spread across the world, while the impact of reformist Lingayatism has led to greater flexibility in caste across India. With its own Marathi minorities, Karnata is looking for allies to restrict Marhatta’s expansion.
- Tamil Confederacy: a confederation of Tamil and Sinhala states, this empire elects its king from the foremost princes. Sri Lanka, like OTL Ireland, is facing both cultural absorption and repression—though for the past 100 years Buddhism has been enshrined as the religion of state, the product of a spiritual revolution. Followers of the Eternal Dharma, especially in the tributary states, don’t like this in the least. Nevertheless, the Tamil navy is the strongest in the world, combining steam technology and advanced steelmaking, and its empire is the dominant world hegemon.
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