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Or that they believe that it is unrealistic that space exploration developed in the style of Star Trek.
For me its mostly that. Like, no way in hell would any alien give away their technology. That and imho I dislike Star Trek cause its like woo somehow we have beings which are totally different yet still have galactic peace... somehow. I mean, if here on Earth we have conflicts because of differing skin color let alone when your neighbour is a 4-legged space octopus. Hence why imho any space exploration should be accompanied by enough firepower to fry a planet if need be.
 
Come on, haven't you ever felt the urge to make the God-Emperor proud? There's even a catchy tune you can exterminate the alien to!

No, I feel the urge to make 40k fans mad a lot more than that. :p
I have also occasionally felt the need to be a hipster about the "let's be xenophobic" filk song, but that's neither here nor there.
Heh that's your view. In that case you'd be horrified by most of my Stellaris empires/ideas (ahem 2nd Human Empire which did a galactic purge to avenge their xeno gods' deaths). That and it's fiction, so its not like it exists IRL. But from this reply I'd presume you'd consider the Imperium from WH40K literal hell.
I mean. Yes, I would; it doesn't even have the dubious upshot of your setting of "humans can have good lives sometimes- nobody else though".
For me its mostly that. Like, no way in hell would any alien give away their technology. That and imho I dislike Star Trek cause its like woo somehow we have beings which are totally different yet still have galactic peace... somehow. I mean, if here on Earth we have conflicts because of differing skin color let alone when your neighbour is a 4-legged space octopus. Hence why imho any space exploration should be accompanied by enough firepower to fry a planet if need be.
Then I suppose we have very different perspectives on the inherent goodness of intelligent life.
 
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I'm back with another map of my alternate North America. I revised the borders and settled on a name: The Commonwealth of New England.
Screen Shot 2021-09-12 at 8.41.57 PM.png
 
Hence why imho any space exploration should be accompanied by enough firepower to fry a planet if need be.
Well it's pretty much impossible to leave the solar system without a spaceship that could fry a planet with its engines (or the laser pushing it could fry the planet instead) or otherwise crash into a planet with such mass and speed so as to cause a nuclear winter. And even probes like Breathrough Starshot could be scaled up a bit and used as relativistic rods from god which would hit like nukes. And that's before getting into faster-than-light travel which involves breaking the laws of physics and presumably gives you access to immense destructive force.
 
Well it's pretty much impossible to leave the solar system without a spaceship that could fry a planet with its engines (or the laser pushing it could fry the planet instead) or otherwise crash into a planet with such mass and speed so as to cause a nuclear winter. And even probes like Breathrough Starshot could be scaled up a bit and used as relativistic rods from god which would hit like nukes. And that's before getting into faster-than-light travel which involves breaking the laws of physics and presumably gives you access to immense destructive force.
For me, Ftl and war presents a problem? So you know in the new star wars movies there was a hyperspace ram? Well, if you can send things ftl then why not build drones that rams through Xeno warships or whatever. Like, an object the size of a basketball impacting earth at lightspeed would punch a hole through the planet. For me, the only way to solve this is to have your FTL outside of the normal universe, or maybe establish it as a MAD like thing
 
For me, Ftl and war presents a problem? So you know in the new star wars movies there was a hyperspace ram? Well, if you can send things ftl then why not build drones that rams through Xeno warships or whatever. Like, an object the size of a basketball impacting earth at lightspeed would punch a hole through the planet. For me, the only way to solve this is to have your FTL outside of the normal universe, or maybe establish it as a MAD like thing
Well, considering we have no idea how FTL works... :p
 
For me, Ftl and war presents a problem? So you know in the new star wars movies there was a hyperspace ram? Well, if you can send things ftl then why not build drones that rams through Xeno warships or whatever. Like, an object the size of a basketball impacting earth at lightspeed would punch a hole through the planet. For me, the only way to solve this is to have your FTL outside of the normal universe, or maybe establish it as a MAD like thing
Well technically you couldn't do that anyway since as you approach the speed of light, a single hydrogen atom will carry a force equivalent to a nuclear bomb, a supernova, and a quasar as you get faster and faster so it doesn't really make sense to talk about what happens if you hit an object faster than the speed of light.

Most proposals for how FTL could work (and most fiction, including Star Wars pre-Disney) have you go into a parallel dimension or otherwise "fold" the universe through means like a wormhole, so you're never going anywhere near the speed of light in this universe. I think wormholes are probably the most hard science fiction since our understanding of black holes and singularities is still very poor (compared to what it likely could be if we had toys like a particle accelerator around the Sun or the energy to make artificial black holes) so it gives the writer room to insert plausible-sounding technobabble.
 

Deleted member 154257

Alternative Map For Europe (Have Some Troubles With Some Edits & Feel Free To Re-Edit In Any Way) =
MapChart_Map_1._83..png

[1] United Kingdom (Kind Of The Same) + [2] Ireland (Given Part Of United Kingdom) + [3] Norway (No Change) + [4] Sweden (No Change) + [5] Denmark (Given Part Of Germany) + [6] Finland (No Change) + [7] Estonia (No Change) + [8] Latvia (No Change) + [9] Lithuania (United With Belarus) + [10] Netherlands (United With Belgium & Luxembourg) + [11] France (Kind Of The Same) + [12] Portugal (Given Part Of Spain) + [13] Spain (Kind Of The Same) + [14] Prussia (North Germany) + [15] Austria (South Germany) + [16] Switzerland (United With Liechtenstein) + [17] North Italy (Need Alternative Name) + [18] South Italy (Need Alternative Name) + [19] Poland (Given Part Of Russia) + [20] Hungary (United With Slovakia) + [21] Czech Republic (No Charge) + [22] Ukraine (Kind Of The Same) + [23] Romania (United With Moldova & Part Of Ukraine) + [24] Croatia (United With Slovenia & Bosnia And Herzegovina) + [25] Serbia (United With Montenegro & Kosovo) + [26] Albania (United With North Macedonia) + [27] Bulgaria (No Charge) + [28] Greece (Given Part Of Turkey) + [29] Iceland (No Charge) + [30] Cyprus (United With West & East).
 
Alternative Map For Europe (Have Some Troubles With Some Edits & Feel Free To Re-Edit In Any Way) =
View attachment 679676
[1] United Kingdom (Kind Of The Same) + [2] Ireland (Given Part Of United Kingdom) + [3] Norway (No Change) + [4] Sweden (No Change) + [5] Denmark (Given Part Of Germany) + [6] Finland (No Change) + [7] Estonia (No Change) + [8] Latvia (No Change) + [9] Lithuania (United With Belarus) + [10] Netherlands (United With Belgium & Luxembourg) + [11] France (Kind Of The Same) + [12] Portugal (Given Part Of Spain) + [13] Spain (Kind Of The Same) + [14] Prussia (North Germany) + [15] Austria (South Germany) + [16] Switzerland (United With Liechtenstein) + [17] North Italy (Need Alternative Name) + [18] South Italy (Need Alternative Name) + [19] Poland (Given Part Of Russia) + [20] Hungary (United With Slovakia) + [21] Czech Republic (No Charge) + [22] Ukraine (Kind Of The Same) + [23] Romania (United With Moldova & Part Of Ukraine) + [24] Croatia (United With Slovenia & Bosnia And Herzegovina) + [25] Serbia (United With Montenegro & Kosovo) + [26] Albania (United With North Macedonia) + [27] Bulgaria (No Charge) + [28] Greece (Given Part Of Turkey) + [29] Iceland (No Charge) + [30] Cyprus (United With West & East).
I hope Greece is okay with being majority Muslim and more Turkish than Greek
 
I hope Greece is okay with being majority Muslim and more Turkish than Greek
Damn I didn't realize Greece wasn't that populated but yeah, 10M Greeks and 12M Turks. And I doubt the relationship will be friendly if they turn to mass expulsions to reduce that number (colonialism/segregation/ethnic cleansing yay!)
I'm curious as to for how long this has been the case that Greece annexing all of Thrace would make Muslims the majority 🤔
 

Dagoth Ur

Banned
Damn I didn't realize Greece wasn't that populated but yeah, 10M Greeks and 12M Turks. And I doubt the relationship will be friendly if they turn to mass expulsions to reduce that number (colonialism/segregation/ethnic cleansing yay!)
I'm curious as to for how long this has been the case that Greece annexing all of Thrace would make Muslims the majority 🤔
Turkey will just kick Greek's ass and take Istanbul and Thrace back.
Alternative Map For Europe (Have Some Troubles With Some Edits & Feel Free To Re-Edit In Any Way) =
View attachment 679676
[1] United Kingdom (Kind Of The Same) + [2] Ireland (Given Part Of United Kingdom) + [3] Norway (No Change) + [4] Sweden (No Change) + [5] Denmark (Given Part Of Germany) + [6] Finland (No Change) + [7] Estonia (No Change) + [8] Latvia (No Change) + [9] Lithuania (United With Belarus) + [10] Netherlands (United With Belgium & Luxembourg) + [11] France (Kind Of The Same) + [12] Portugal (Given Part Of Spain) + [13] Spain (Kind Of The Same) + [14] Prussia (North Germany) + [15] Austria (South Germany) + [16] Switzerland (United With Liechtenstein) + [17] North Italy (Need Alternative Name) + [18] South Italy (Need Alternative Name) + [19] Poland (Given Part Of Russia) + [20] Hungary (United With Slovakia) + [21] Czech Republic (No Charge) + [22] Ukraine (Kind Of The Same) + [23] Romania (United With Moldova & Part Of Ukraine) + [24] Croatia (United With Slovenia & Bosnia And Herzegovina) + [25] Serbia (United With Montenegro & Kosovo) + [26] Albania (United With North Macedonia) + [27] Bulgaria (No Charge) + [28] Greece (Given Part Of Turkey) + [29] Iceland (No Charge) + [30] Cyprus (United With West & East).
Ah I see we've let Americans draw the borders again :p
 
So, this is both a personal project for AlternateHistory.com and Shipbucket (though I will have to consider what I will do in the Shipbucket forums) and I also have separate facts page and maps for these to countries.

So, may I present to you... San Leon and Prundia
View attachment 679535
This map is only a fraction of a much larger thing.
On a side note, I initially wanted Prundia and San Leon to be Bigger, but since my photoshop is faulty, I just want with what I have.
The Southern, much larger country is Prundia, as the Northern one is San Leon.
 
Damn I didn't realize Greece wasn't that populated but yeah, 10M Greeks and 12M Turks. And I doubt the relationship will be friendly if they turn to mass expulsions to reduce that number (colonialism/segregation/ethnic cleansing yay!)
I'm curious as to for how long this has been the case that Greece annexing all of Thrace would make Muslims the majority 🤔
It's just something that always struck me as particularly odd about the idea of making Istanbul part of Greece which seems to be such a trope in AH. Istanbul outnumbers the rest of Greece so it would really be like making Greece part of Istanbul.

I would imagine Muslims would have been the majority in any combination of Greece and Istanbul since roughly 1700 at least. Istanbul is ridiculously large and has been for hundreds of years
 
Damn I didn't realize Greece wasn't that populated but yeah, 10M Greeks and 12M Turks. And I doubt the relationship will be friendly if they turn to mass expulsions to reduce that number (colonialism/segregation/ethnic cleansing yay!)

Well, the formation of the independent states of Greece, Bulgaria, and Serbia from the Ottoman Empire involved large-scale ethnic cleansing pretty much from the start, so it's not like this would be anything new. Really, I can't see any scenario in which Greece gains Constantinople in the late 19th or early 20th century that doesn't involve mass expulsions of Muslims.

I would imagine Muslims would have been the majority in any combination of Greece and Istanbul since roughly 1700 at least. Istanbul is ridiculously large and has been for hundreds of years

No, Greece in 1913 had about 4.7 million while Greater Constantinople had about 1.125 million in 1914. (Still too many Muslims for them to tolerate). The Ottoman census of 1914, at least as reported by Wikipedia, counts about 1.6 million in Europe. Like many capitals or otherwise dominant cities in the developing world, Istanbul's population ballooned wildly in the 20th century.
 
Istanbul had been one of a handful of "world cities" up till the late 18th century, when European urban centers began to expand enormously, taking away its special status over the 19th century. The demographic boom brought on by modern agriculture, modern medicine, etc. came to the non-European world with a considerable delay, so most of Asia expanded fairly slowly in the 19th century (China already had it's pre-modern population boom before the 19th century, and was hitting hard limits on the capacity of its technology to feed more people) while Europe raced ahead. Europe before WWI was at it's relative demographic peak: there were more Europeans (and European-derived groups in the Americas) as a percentage of the world's population than they ever would be again. (An extra edge to add to Europe's other advantages in the New Imperialism era, I suppose).
 

Dagoth Ur

Banned
It's just something that always struck me as particularly odd about the idea of making Istanbul part of Greece which seems to be such a trope in AH. Istanbul outnumbers the rest of Greece so it would really be like making Greece part of Istanbul.

I would imagine Muslims would have been the majority in any combination of Greece and Istanbul since roughly 1700 at least. Istanbul is ridiculously large and has been for hundreds of years
Propaganda is strong. As late as 1996 it was being used to allow war crimes and ethic cleansing in the Balkans because, to some observers, Muslims "don't belong" in Europe. It's no accident the Megali Idea targets only Turkey and Albania. Definitely not saying any mapmaker thinks that, just that the idea has passed on insidiously.
 
Alternative Map For Europe (Have Some Troubles With Some Edits & Feel Free To Re-Edit In Any Way) =
First off, don't capitalise every word like that.
I'd suggest you look for better sources of maps, like the WorldA, Quarter-BAM and QBAM templates on this forum. Furthermore, you could base new borders off existing historical or subdivision borders, but I'll give you slack this time as the map you worked with didn't have any.
[1] United Kingdom (Kind Of The Same) + [2] Ireland (Given Part Of United Kingdom) + [3] Norway (No Change) + [4] Sweden (No Change) +
You don't need to label them all like that, just highlight the interesting bits.
[17] North Italy (Need Alternative Name) + [18] South Italy (Need Alternative Name)
Padania for north Italy. The south can stay as Italy (as it still has Rome), or it could be called Naples or something like that.
[23] Romania (United With Moldova & Part Of Ukraine)
Pretty close to Greater Romania, all you need
[28] Greece (Given Part Of Turkey)
While other people have pointed that that part of Turkey would have more people that all of Greece, it could be justifiable in an alternate history; it used to have large Greek populations. However, you could just as easily go full on Megali Idea.
 
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