Map Thread XX

I dont want to come off as too rude or anything but this really really reminds me of a map Valdore Javorsky made a while ago. Did you guys collab on this?
I think he probably used the map as a basemap.
@Noravea exactly. I was looking for a suitable basemap, and found this. I didn't realize it was @Valdore Javorsky 's map, otherwise I would have accredited him. My apologies, I thought that the scenario itself was distinct enough to make it unique. The scenario shown, a Communist regime spanning most of central Europe falling apart violently, then its borders being redrawn by the west, is certainly very different from the tl the basemap used comes from, now that I've looked into where it came from.
 
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@Noravea exactly. I was looking for a suitable basemap, and found this. I didn't realize it was @Valdore Javorsky 's map, otherwise I would have accredited him. My apologies, I thought that the scenario itself was distinct enough to make it unique.
It is pretty distinct and is an interesting scenario. And we all make mistakes. I've mistaken someone else's map for a basemap before so I totally get it and the panic when someone points it out.
 
Aren't many of those borders historical though? You can see many of them being used by the real-world states in the described time period. The borders in the Baltic, Poland Ukraine and Belarus are from the subdivisions of the Russian Empire IIRC.

EDIT: The Polish borders are from the partitions.
 

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@Noravea exactly. I was looking for a suitable basemap, and found this. I didn't realize it was @Valdore Javorsky 's map, otherwise I would have accredited him. My apologies, I thought that the scenario itself was distinct enough to make it unique. The scenario shown, a Communist regime spanning most of central Europe falling apart violently, then its borders being redrawn by the west, is certainly very different from the tl the basemap used comes from, now that I've looked into where it came from.
If you didn't create it, then it was obviously created by someone else. You didn't bother to even mention that.

You let the maps be posts as if they were your own work.

I don't even know what to do with this crap anymore.
 
If you didn't create it, then it was obviously created by someone else. You didn't bother to even mention that.

You let the maps be posts as if they were your own work.

I don't even know what to do with this crap anymore.
I think he thought it was a basemap and used it like how someone might use the other basemaps available. When I was younger on AH.com I've made that mistake before.
 
If you didn't create it, then it was obviously created by someone else. You didn't bother to even mention that.

You let the maps be posts as if they were your own work.

I don't even know what to do with this crap anymore.
It was a mistake, and I am deeply sorry for that. Like I said, I found this map and thought it was an old basemap. I should have looked into the matter further. I apologize, especially to @Valdore Javorsky, and I assure you that I will not make the same mistake again.
 
An Alternate History of Eurasia c. 1914 Prior to the Great War

This is a map I made for @Praetor98 for his self-insert fic: I, Wilhelm. Here the Austro-Hungarian Empire collapsed and the Austrian half of the Empire was annexed into Germany while Galicia was annexed into Russian Poland. South Tyrol here was given to Italy in addition to a puppet state: the Duchy of Ragusa. Croatia and Bosnia were given independence along with Hungary as well.​
 
It was a mistake, and I am deeply sorry for that. Like I said, I found this map and thought it was an old basemap. I should have looked into the matter further. I apologize, especially to @Valdore Javorsky, and I assure you that I will not make the same mistake again.
A basemap that fits irregular allohistorical borders, with distinct portrayals of different sectarian areas of control? Those don't just pop up out of nowhere, that doesn't make any sense. Did you even ask for permission?
 
I dont want to come off as too rude or anything but this really really reminds me of a map Valdore Javorsky made a while ago. Did you guys collab on this?
Oh god, I didn't want to be remembered of this map because it reminds me of my inexperienced and cringe! past self, but HERE WE GOOOOOOOOOO!
For one thing the second part of the map is different. And there are differences in the first part of the map as well. For one thing the sieges in Germany. The civil war in Hungary, even the deliniation between Poland and Lithuania, not to mention the border changes in the second map.

Plagiarism is taking a map or other work, unchanged, and claiming credit for it. He should have credited the person, yes, but we all make stupid mistakes like that.
For one thing, the second part being different doesn't excuse that the first map is quite a copy. The subdivisions as well as the (albeit horrible) ethnic lines are pretty much entirely a clone copy of mine, with some liberties taken around Galicia and Karpatia.

Also, Plagiarism extends not just to entire copies/false copyright claims, but also to those works that "only" largely copy, basically everything where one's own effort is not transformative or parodical.
Aren't many of those borders historical though? You can see many of them being used by the real-world states in the described time period. The borders in the Baltic, Poland Ukraine and Belarus are from the subdivisions of the Russian Empire IIRC.

EDIT: The Polish borders are from the partitions.
There are plenty of allohistorical city states and border changes (e.g. german states) though, not to mention the ethnic boundaries. Most of the map is a pixel-to-pixel copy with some adjustments in Galicia and the sieges.
A basemap that fits irregular allohistorical borders, with distinct portrayals of different sectarian areas of control? Those don't just pop up out of nowhere, that doesn't make any sense. Did you even ask for permission?
He didn't.
Apart from the post Yanranay linked to, that map has been unavailable on deviantart and other sites for probably over a year now (with the post he linked to also having been purged right now), and it didn't have any sort of copyright watermark by me so I can get where he's coming from when he said he had absolutely no idea where it came from. Though yes, it technically doesn't excuse that just because there's no watermark or no apparent "copyright owner".

As for me personally, I don't really mind it that much, considering my map also is just a very heavily edited version of this map on the alternatehistory.com wiki (and other offsite versions of it), so I don't feel like I have the right to "claim" much of it either.
The only thing that I actually have an "issue" with is that this nightmare of an ethnic map still haunts me to this day and that people still have it :biggrin: . It's so unprofessional and downright embarassing that I wished it would just disappear with the flow of time, but here we go. Maybe I should make a new and completely revamped version of it to at least dispute the probably still persisting memories of the board members on here about this project, which has changed considerably since 2017.

Other than that, just try not to plagiarize next time, often a simple "I couldn't find the source of the original basemap" or just asking if anyone knows it is all it takes to be safe from any sort of accusation or embarassing moments. We all have our plagiarization moments (and cringe past maps) but we all gotta learn from it and move on as better selves :)
 
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1556-1559

FRANCE AND ITALY;
The Hapsburg-Valois War (1551-59)

Pope Paul renewed his alliance with France as a defensive alliance then went out of his way to engineer an invasion of the Papal States from the south [arresting the secretary of the Spanish Embassy]. So, in December a French army, under the Duke of Guise, crossed the Alps into Italy. The Pope convinced Guise to attack Naples. Guise moved south and began a siege of Civitella in 1557.

By 1557 Philip II completed the encirclement of France, as husband of Mary he was also King of England and, in June, England declared war. In July Philip II invaded northern France with 50,000 men [including an English contingent] commanded by Emmanuel Philibert of Savoy. The French had only a small army in the north, led by Anne of Montmorency, and Paris was vulnerable to attack.

Instead of exploiting their numerical avantage Philip refused to leave French fortresses in his rear, the Spanish besieged Guise then St. Quentin. Admiral Coligny reached St. Quentin before the siege began, and inspired the defenders to hold out for longer than expected. Montmorency raised 26,000 men, raw and badly trained, and tried to harass the Spanish but suffered a heavy defeat near St. Quentin in August 1557 when his forces were caught crossing a river. He lost 6,000 dead and 6,000 captured, including himself.
Philip still refused to advance on Paris, insisting on capturing St. Quentin. Coligny surrendered in late August, giving the French time to recover from their defeat. In September Philip abandoned the siege, retreating back to the Netherlands. Duke Emmanuel resigned his position in disgust.

News of St. Quentin soon reached Guise in Naples, forcing him to abandon the siege of Civitella and retreat back to France, available to defend of France, but leaving Pope Paul IV without any allies in Italy. Philip II agreed a lenient peace with the Pope to free up his troops.

Late in the year Guise carried out a series of raids from Champagne across the frontier of the Netherlands to keep the Imperial forces off balance.

At the start of January 1558, Guise attacked and captured Calais, reducing the chance of further English invasion by removing their port of entry. In spring 1558 the French held the initiative, the plan was to capture Thionville then launch a two-pronged invasion from Calais. The plan was disrupted by the defenders of Thionville, who held out until mid June, preventing Guise from taking part in the invasion of Flanders.
The left wing of the French army still attacked, taking Dunkirk in late June, but was forced to retreat in the face of a Spanish-Netherlands army. In mid July 1558 the French were defeated, by a combination of the Spanish army and English naval gunnery, at Gravelines. Guise's army, however, was able to prevent the Spanish from taking advantage of the victory.

Negotiations begun in May resumed at Saint Pol in October. The death of Mary I of England removed any need for Philip to arrange the return of Calais. The Treaty of Edinburgh of 1560 ended the Franco-English part of the war.

In April 1559 the Treaty of Cateau-Cambrésis was signed the Peace of Cateau-Cambrésis ending the Italian Wars. France would give up all of their claims in Italy, apart from in the border region of Saluzzo, and surrender Guise's conquests from the last year of the war. France would keep Metz, Toul and Verdun. Duke Emmanual Philibert of Savoy was restored to Savoy and Piedmont.

At the end of the wars Milan and Naples had been taken over by the Spanish where, before most of the peninsula had been in the hands of Italian rulers, or dynasties mainly based in Italy. Florence was now an independent duchy, but firmly within the Spanish sphere of influence. Only Venice, Genoa, Lucca and San Marino remained independent republics.
- - - - - - - - - -

HUNGARY;

In June 1556, Ferdinand wrote to the Sultan, confirming the verbal offer of his ambassadors to revoke Transylvania and give it to John II Zápolya, to evacuate the castles and withdraw his troops from the country but, prompted by the French, Suleiman made new demands. He demanded the dismantling of fortifications at Szigetvár. News of this only reached Ferdinand in the summer of 1557, negotiations were slow due to travel between the two capitals, whilst talks took place, in March 1558 they made a seven-month truce.

The following year the rebellion of one of the sultan's sons again took precedence over peace. Ferdinand wanted to take advantage of the situation but King Philip of Spain advised him to make peace even if he had to raise the annual tax of 30,000 by 5-10,000 thalers. The demolition of Szigetvár, however, was strongly opposed by Philip because of it's military importance standing in the way of a Turkish march on the Danube.

The peace treaty was made for eight years, from 1 February 1559, on the basis of actual holdings.

This treaty did not come into force, there was always new wording; so from 1560 to 1562 negotiations continued. In 1562 it became apparent that the treaty consecrated by Sulieman was very different from that signed by Ferdinand. Transylvania remained an unresolved, open question even after reconciliation with the Sultan. Although Ferdinand renounced Transylvania in 1556 and withdrew his armies, he did not reconcile with Isabella, who made a claim to the neighbouring counties and tried to assert the claim by force.

Isabella again fell out with the powerful lords who had supported her return and had the three most powerful murdered in August 1559 however, she became ill and died herself in September.
John II Zápolya, when he finally ascended the throne, led the government with surprising intellect, zeal, and force despite his youth. Elected long ago, his accession to the throne took place without disturbance, and the Sultan immediately acknowledged it.
- - - - - - - - - -

OTTOMAN EMPIRE;

Background

The Saadian dynasty developed in southern Morocco. It had been successful evicting the Portuguese from it's forts in southern Morocco including Agadir, in 1541. The Saadians challenged the Wattasids of northern Morocco, trying unify Morocco.

Wattasid - Ottoman contact started around 1545. In June 1545 the Ottoman Regent of Algiers, occupied Tlemcen, installing a Turkish garrison, putting pro-Ottoman Sultan Muhammad on the throne. The Ottoman Regent wanted to establish an alliance with the Wattasids, against the Spanish. In 1545 the Wattassid Emir was captured by the Saadians. Ali Abu Hassun, regent for the Emir's young son, needing Ottoman military support against the Saadians, pledged allegiance to the Ottomans to obtain it.

In 1547, Spain sent an expedition against Mostaganem, in support of the ousted ruler of Tlemcen, but, whilst it failed, they did capture Tlemcen from the Ottomans and installed a puppet ruler. After the expedition was withdrawn Tlemcen was reconquered.

The Ottoman Regent could not intervene when the Saadians conquered Fez in 1549 but, the deposed pro-Ottoman regent was given asylum in Algiers. With the Ottomans preparing to restore Wattassid rule, the Saadians attacked the Regency of Algiers in 1551. An army of 30,000 men invaded Tlemcen, taking it easily. The Saadians advanced to Mostaganem, but failed to capture the city. The Saadian army was defeated by a joint army of Ottoman Janissaries and tribal troops. Tlemcen was again reconquered and an Ottoman governor and garrison installed, establishing direct Ottoman rule.

In 1552 Suleiman started diplomatic negotiation with the Saadians but this failed in 1554, the Saadians rejecting cooperation with the Ottomans. The Regent of Algiers marched on Fez, occupying it in early 1554. Ali Abu Hassun was installed as Emir of Fez, supported by Janissaries but, in September 1554, Fez fell to the Saadians who opened negotiations with Spain for an alliance.

The Regent of Algiers had the Saadian ruler assassinated in October 1557 and, in early 1558, invaded Morocco, but he was defeated by the Moroccans north of Fez at the Battle of Wadi al-Laban, and retreated after hearing of Spanish preparations for an offensive from Oran. He returned to Algiers to prepare a defense.

The Spanish attacked Mostaganem, with Saadian support, in 1558, but, again, failed. The failure ended attempts to form an alliance between Spain and Morocco.

In Morocco, following the 1557 assassination a struggle for power between the sons of the Emir forced the three younger sons to leave Morocco for exile Istanbul, where they received Ottoman training.
 
Interesting. I'd change some of the text though. Specifically where it says "the 3 main kingdoms were" I'd end that with a colon and start the 1st kingdom as a separate paragraph like the 2nd and 3rd are. Otherwise saying "the 3 main kingdoms were Kingdom One." is just odd in English.
Thanks, will remember that
 
Oh god, I didn't want to be remembered of this map because it reminds me of my inexperienced and cringe! past self, but HERE WE GOOOOOOOOOO!

For one thing, the second part being different doesn't excuse that the first map is quite a copy. The subdivisions as well as the (albeit horrible) ethnic lines are pretty much entirely a clone copy of mine, with some liberties taken around Galicia and Karpatia.

Also, Plagiarism extends not just to entire copies/false copyright claims, but also to those works that "only" largely copy, basically everything where one's own effort is not transformative or parodical.

There are plenty of allohistorical city states and border changes (e.g. german states) though, not to mention the ethnic boundaries. Most of the map is a pixel-to-pixel copy with some adjustments in Galicia and the sieges.

He didn't.
Apart from the post Yanranay linked to, that map has been unavailable on deviantart and other sites for probably over a year now (with the post he linked to also having been purged right now), and it didn't have any sort of copyright watermark by me so I can get where he's coming from when he said he had absolutely no idea where it came from. Though yes, it technically doesn't excuse that just because there's no watermark or no apparent "copyright owner".

As for me personally, I don't really mind it that much, considering my map also is just a very heavily edited version of this map on the alternatehistory.com wiki (and other offsite versions of it), so I don't feel like I have the right to "claim" much of it either.
The only thing that I actually have an "issue" with is that this nightmare of an ethnic map still haunts me to this day and that people still have it :biggrin: . It's so unprofessional and downright embarassing that I wished it would just disappear with the flow of time, but here we go. Maybe I should make a new and completely revamped version of it to at least dispute the probably still persisting memories of the board members on here about this project, which has changed considerably since 2017.

Other than that, just try not to plagiarize next time, often a simple "I couldn't find the source of the original basemap" or just asking if anyone knows it is all it takes to be safe from any sort of accusation or embarassing moments. We all have our plagiarization moments (and cringe past maps) but we all gotta learn from it and move on as better selves :)
I think the most ironic thing about this entire discussion is how the same worldA map and base maps are used and posted over and over and no one cares about those being plagiarized and reused. But that's just my opinion 🤷
 
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