Map Thread XX

[Crazymachines]

This ending is now my headcannon


What happened with WW1? How did not sending Lenin to Russia result in the Germans winning?

Lore:

1917:
Kerensky suffers a partially successful coup by right wing elements in Russia opposed to many of his reforms. Russia descends into civil war

Kerensky signs a hasty peace with the central powers in order to free up resources and manpower to Focus on the civil conflict.

Over the course of the fighting the authority of the pro Kerensky govt. becomes slowly supplanted by communist and socialist soviets as Kerensky is required to utilize their networking and resources more and more for support.

1918: Kerensky and several other members of his cabinet are killed in a bomb attack perpetrated by an unknown faction (theories about who committed the bombing are hotly debated even decades later)

The Moscow and Petrograd soviets fill the resulting power vacuum, forming a provisional government consisting of multiple leftist groups. the new government continues the war against the Putschist forces

 

[FrankBoyoTheUnique]

After signing a treaty with the United States to end any and all hostilities, resulting in the Philippines becoming a recognized state (Though with laws akin to Jim Crow enforced) and Korea and all lands off the Japanese mainland as Japanese territory, with the promise to not attack each other, nor aid the enemy of each other, Japanese and American relations resumed, with the people of the two nations going back and forth, with Sports, Tobacco and other such amenities going to Japan, and Textile, Tea and such going to America. The ratification of the Nagasaki Pact of 1934 is one of the key points in the history of the two nations.

When the Nazi's bombed Norfolk in 1942, Japan sent aid to America, but were unable to extend much more as they had been in a long war with the Chinese. However when proof that the Chinese were apart of the Attack on Norfolk Harbor, things Changed. American troops were sent to the Chinese front, with British, French, Polish, American and even some few Japanese fought in europe, bringing the war to a close in 1944, when America dropped bombs on the cities of Berlin and Hamburg.

The Empire of Japan continues to this day as one of the few powerhouses to remain, as many countries shifted from autocratic rule, Japan stayed strong, and thus, prospered.

(A map of Japan a few of it's Client states, excluding the Peoples Republic)

 

[Dagoth Ur]

With a POD so late, the US will not drop an atomic bomb on a European/white country, moreover the ancestral homeland of a huge percentage of Americans that is Germany. The Pacific was a nasty grueling affair for the US and it was easy for the psychopaths in charge to sell dropping the bombs as necessary and not a big deal because they were, you know, evil Japs, not real people. This is the front where US soldiers took home human skulls as souvenirs. Those in charge couldn't make the same argument for Germany or any European nation.

 

[Ed of the Pueblos Libres]

Also, Japan just holding so much parts of China for a long time...will end bad.
Not only for the Chinese but the Japanese also.

 

[Mr_Fanboy]

With a POD so late, the US will not drop an atomic bomb on a European/white country, moreover the ancestral homeland of a huge percentage of Americans that is Germany. The Pacific was a nasty grueling affair for the US and it was easy for the psychopaths in charge to sell dropping the bombs as necessary and not a big deal because they were, you know, evil Japs, not real people. This is the front where US soldiers took home human skulls as souvenirs. Those in charge couldn't make the same argument for Germany or any European nation.

I mean, it’s not as though the Western Allies held off on destructive bombing campaigns on German cities during the war.

 

[Minnesota_Nationalist]

With a POD so late, the US will not drop an atomic bomb on a European/white country, moreover the ancestral homeland of a huge percentage of Americans that is Germany. The Pacific was a nasty grueling affair for the US and it was easy for the psychopaths in charge to sell dropping the bombs as necessary and not a big deal because they were, you know, evil Japs, not real people. This is the front where US soldiers took home human skulls as souvenirs. Those in charge couldn't make the same argument for Germany or any European nation.

The bomb was literally intended to be dropped on Germany, they just surrendered before it could be used.

 

[FrankBoyoTheUnique]

With a POD so late, the US will not drop an atomic bomb on a European/white country, moreover the ancestral homeland of a huge percentage of Americans that is Germany. The Pacific was a nasty grueling affair for the US and it was easy for the psychopaths in charge to sell dropping the bombs as necessary and not a big deal because they were, you know, evil Japs, not real people. This is the front where US soldiers took home human skulls as souvenirs. Those in charge couldn't make the same argument for Germany or any European nation.

Oh yes, because bombing them back to the stone age is any different. Back then the Nuke was a large bomb to them, not until they saw how catastrophic it could be did we tone it down.

Besides that, Germans in America were ignored. At the time supporting such a regime, especially one that by now was executing a purge of Jewish peoples, would be very, very very stupid. I'm talking like attacking the President with a rock kind of stupid. It wouldn't happen, period.

The regime at that point didn't want to kill the japanese just for shits and giggles, they dropped the bombs so we didn't have to go into a Vietnam like scenario, or what, would you rather not exist? Because chanced are, many of us wouldn't exist because one of our ancestors would likely have died in such a war.

From what I understand the admins are rather strict on the subject, so I'd suggest not using a racial slur when referring to the Japanese.

Yeah, that happened. people were racist back then. So obviously that happened. Whites hated Blacks, Blacks hated Whites. How it was back then, still is depending on where you live. (Looking at you California...)

anyways, i'm signing off. toodles.

 

[Oliveia]

Oh yes, because bombing them back to the stone age is any different. Back then the Nuke was a large bomb to them, not until they saw how catastrophic it could be did we tone it down.

Not aiming to fan the flames of war, but the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was at least partially done to test the power of nuclear weaponry; I'd argue that seeing Japanese citizens and cities as nuclear testing sites portrays a bit of the "not real people" ideas that were discussed.

 

[FleetMac]

Not aiming to fan the flames of war, but the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was at least partially done to test the power of nuclear weaponry; I'd argue that seeing Japanese citizens and cities as nuclear testing sites portrays a bit of the "not real people" ideas that were discussed.

War flames fanned; citation needed WRT the bolded bit, if you're gonna make that claim. I'd argue against this insinuation in that the Germans firebombed in Dresden and elsewhere probably find it a cold imaginary comfort that they weren't nuked, because it certainly happened to them as much as in Japan. At least insofar as Germany caved before Japan did, but that just means they capitulated before getting more screaming hot stop-it dropped on their heads by comparison.

If it was 'good enough' for both Japan and Germany (who, keep in mind, surrendered a month and a half before Trinity even dropped, so...how do we know the Germans wouldn't be used as 'nuclear guinea pigs' either?), I find it laughable that one would seriously use anti-Japanese racism as some sort of litmus test for who gets bombed and who doesn't, especially given that timeframe and how far/unfinished the Manhattan Project was.

I swear to the Great Magnet, the degree to which American racism is played up especially on topics like this, you'd swear that Japan would still be one giant graveyard with nary a cawing crow left alive. (EDIT: Removed sarcasm, it's not productive)

 

[Gokbay]

A WIP ATL time zone map

 

[Dagoth Ur]

War flames fanned; citation needed WRT the bolded bit, if you're gonna make that claim. I'd argue against this insinuation in that the Germans firebombed in Dresden and elsewhere probably find it a cold imaginary comfort that they weren't nuked, because it certainly happened to them as much as in Japan. At least insofar as Germany caved before Japan did, but that just means they capitulated before getting more screaming hot stop-it dropped on their heads by comparison.

If it was 'good enough' for both Japan and Germany (who, keep in mind, surrendered a month and a half before Trinity even dropped, so...how do we know the Germans wouldn't be used as 'nuclear guinea pigs' either?), I find it laughable that one would seriously use anti-Japanese racism as some sort of litmus test for who gets bombed and who doesn't, especially given that timeframe and how far/unfinished the Manhattan Project was.

I swear to the Great Magnet, the degree to which American racism is played up especially on topics like this, you'd swear that Japan would still be one giant graveyard with nary a cawing crow left alive. (EDIT: Removed sarcasm, it's not productive)

Dresden was firebombed, well known technology and effects seen in numerous cities throughout the war. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the first use of nuclear weapons against humans, and was in effect an experiment from a physics/medicine standpoint.
Yes yes, I'm well aware the Japanese were viewed as equals. So much so that hundreds of thousands of patriotic Americans of Japanese descent were sent to concentration camps and deprived of their property, careers, and years of their lives for the crime of...being of Japanese descent. While only vocal pro-Nazi white Americans were given similar treatment, or just spied upon, free to live with their property and careers.

 

[FleetMac]

1) Dresden was firebombed, well known technology and effects seen in numerous cities throughout the war. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the first use of nuclear weapons against humans, and was in effect an experiment from a physics/medicine standpoint.

You still have not answered my question or proven your point on how this new weapon was somehow destined for use exclusively against the Japanese.

2) Yes yes, I'm well aware the Japanese were viewed as equals. So much so that hundreds of thousands of patriotic Americans of Japanese descent were sent to concentration camps and deprived of their property, careers, and years of their lives for the crime of...being of Japanese descent. While only vocal pro-Nazi white Americans were given similar treatment, or just spied upon, free to live with their property and careers.

Nice strawman argument. So shoddy treatment of minorities at all = We're Nazis Or Something, Idunno. Gotcha. I'm sure the 442nd were glad they turned on their oppressors at the first opportunity they got overseas.

I'm giving notice that I'm walking away from this conversation, I don't like to derail threads anyway. This is not a concession @Dagoth Ur

 

[Asharella]

After signing a treaty with the United States to end any and all hostilities, resulting in the Philippines becoming a recognized state (Though with laws akin to Jim Crow enforced) and Korea and all lands off the Japanese mainland as Japanese territory, with the promise to not attack each other, nor aid the enemy of each other, Japanese and American relations resumed, with the people of the two nations going back and forth, with Sports, Tobacco and other such amenities going to Japan, and Textile, Tea and such going to America. The ratification of the Nagasaki Pact of 1934 is one of the key points in the history of the two nations.

When the Nazi's bombed Norfolk in 1942, Japan sent aid to America, but were unable to extend much more as they had been in a long war with the Chinese. However when proof that the Chinese were apart of the Attack on Norfolk Harbor, things Changed. American troops were sent to the Chinese front, with British, French, Polish, American and even some few Japanese fought in europe, bringing the war to a close in 1944, when America dropped bombs on the cities of Berlin and Hamburg.

The Empire of Japan continues to this day as one of the few powerhouses to remain, as many countries shifted from autocratic rule, Japan stayed strong, and thus, prospered.

(A map of Japan a few of it's Client states, excluding the Peoples Republic)
View attachment 682028

The mainland portions of the Empire look like Vietnam, but bigger and further north!

I wonder if the mainland has been Nipponized in language and culture or is still the original culture with a Nippon elite over it?

 

[Bleh]

Yeah, that happened. people were racist back then. So obviously that happened. Whites hated Blacks, Blacks hated Whites. How it was back then, still is depending on where you live. (Looking at you California...)

what

 

[Fed]

So, if you ignore the ginormous "COLOMBIA" on one side of the map, this is essentially (AFAICT) an OTL map for the rebellions that hit Brazil during the regency of Pedro II. If you can't get over that huge "COLOMBIA" sign, it's because it's a map I drew up for my TL.

 

[B_Munro]

Really, I suspect in most TLs where there's no Emperor Pedro II, let alone ones where Brazil continues to be misgoverned by Lisbon, Brazil ends up as more than one country...

 

[PobreCesar]

the rebellions that hit Brazil during the regency of Pedro II

Might be less time consuming to make a map of the areas that didn't rebel and explain how they were appeased

 

[B_Munro]

Does anyone remember a spiffy new "For All Nails" standard-sized map posted recently? I thought it had been, but I can't find it searching by "nail/nails" or Sobel. (And i'm not referring to @Tsar of New Zealand 's excellent map of FAN Europe.) Did I dream it?

Anybody?

 

[PobreCesar]

Anybody?

I looked but lamentably I couldn't find it either.

The Moscow and Petrograd soviets fill the resulting power vacuum, forming a provisional government consisting of multiple leftist groups. the new government continues the war against the Putschist forces

Makes sense, but how did this prevent the Americans, Brits, and French from winning in the West?




I promise I'll get back to full-sized maps after this. Here we have a world with a much more expansionist US, and a rather successful Germany and Japan, which no doubt benefited from having 1) Sane leadership 2) a more broken up Southern portion of the Western Hemisphere 3) a behemoth of an ex-colony in Southern Africa as their third partner rather than Italy 4) a more cooperative (and competent) Spain. The fact that years of intervening in South America and stewing over the loss of Canada made the British even nastier than our world (and the pre-colonial Egyptians had been more successful due to butterflies) no doubt helped too, as did the aforementioned Even-Eviler-British-Empire's policies resulting in an India that broke up more thoroughly. Since the Fall of India and the collapse of the British Empire, Germany and Japan extracted their pounds of flesh from Russia and China- the former is now hovering on the cusp of civil war and the later is already there. Spain, Germany, and Capeland have greatly expanded and partitioned Africa between themselves and Germany's Egyptian puppet. Italy is beginning to wonder if neutrality and keeping Southern Europe quiet was such a great idea. South Asia, fresh off the chopping-of-colonial-ties board, is grateful but suspicious. They don't want Japan meddling too much, and they remember how Capeland's naval power could reach India and wonder how much further it might go.

What no one knows is that Capeland is going to democratize after a protracted civil rights movement, and adopt the liberation of Africa from German and Spanish rule as a major policy aim.

 

[FleetMac]

Does anyone remember a spiffy new "For All Nails" standard-sized map posted recently? I thought it had been, but I can't find it searching by "nail/nails" or Sobel. (And i'm not referring to @Tsar of New Zealand 's excellent map of FAN Europe.) Did I dream it?

The only place I could find something matching your description is off-site, HERE and HERE. Anything more recent than that, I've got nothing either.