boredhistorylover1211
Banned
I mean, it’s obviously riffing on Afghanistan from the perspective of a post-Nazi Germany. If you want to warn them for anything it should be current politics.
Map Thread XX
- Thread starter Balkanized U.S.A
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Must we assume everyone interested in a Nazi victory scenario is a secret Nazi?
Reminds me of my Höllereich map I'd done a while ago.
If for some reason you manage to actually remember me, you may recall that around half a year ago I posted a pair of maps, one regarding the Near East and the Caucasus, and another one regarding southeastern Europe. So, today I'm back with a map focusing on the Ottoman Empire - a Turkish empire located between the Tigris and the Euphrates. An empire that has seen more glorious days, but one that nonetheless stands proud as a beacon of Nestorian Christianity.
PS. Turkish ITTL is more akin to Ottoman Turkish, featuring several loanwords - but nowhere near OTL's level - and it's written in the Pahlavi script, which wasn't replaced by Arabic in Iran.
PPS. This is set in the modern-day. Also, there's no decolonization. If you think that the Ottomans have way too many territories, just wait until you see the Byzantines... or the British... or the Dutch... or the Portuguese... or the French... or the Persians...
The Ottoman mainland is known in English simply as Turkey. Locally, however, it's known by many names, and those vary by region. All of those names are influenced by different languages, such as Êrâk and Mayânrudân, which have a Persian influence, the first of which is the most common to hear, and the second is used poetically, Bêẕnaḫrain, which has a Syriac influence, and is more common in the north, Mizupotamya, which has a Greek influence, and can be heard everywhere in the Empire, and Êkırmakarası, the Turkic translation of "land between two rivers", which has become the official name, used by the government, but can't really assert itself over the other, more popular ones.
For centuries, the Ottomans have been a prime naval power, and since the 15th century, they have exerted control over several ports in India, Indonesia and Azania, thus leaving behind a vast diaspora, and expanding the influence of Nestorian Christianity even further beyond what the Mongols managed to do, crowning themselves as the champions of its cause.
In India, Turkic and Iranic peoples dominated the northern regions for several centuries - Turkic dynasties can still be seen ruling over the mouth of the Indus in Sindh, and in the mouth of the Ganges, in Bengal. The Ottomans, however, still have an exclave in the land of Gujarat, known as Atpârakâ-İsmailiye.
In Indonesia, the Ottomans had multiple trading partners and competed with the Greeks, the Dutch, the Portuguese and the Persians for influence. The Ottomans retain two exclaves in the great island of Sumatra, the first and the most populous is in the north - Bender-i Açe. A few kilometres south, they have another port - Ḫüdâvendigâriye. In the island of Borneo, the Ottomans also have the possession of Sârâvâk, also known as the Land of the Hornbills, Keñalân, or the Land of Quiet, Ülke-yi Tınışlik. Its capital is located in Küçeñ, formerly known as New Trebizond (Tırabızon-i Yeñi), named by Greco-Turkish explorer Nikêfuros Ḫulörkokês, a native of the Black Sea city. Adjacent to it is the island of Söğütlü (Otruğ-i Söğütlü). Down south, in the island of Java, the Ottomans have two smaller exclaves - the ports of Şıḥara and Bekâsı, the latter right next to the imposing Dutch possession of Betuwestad.
In Africa, the Ottomans were very active in the region of Azania and the island of Madagascar, especially through their Mazuni (Omani) subjects, with many places thus receiving an Arabic-influenced name. The Ottoman possessions in this area are as follows: East Africa (Doğu Âfrikâ), with its capital in Darü's-Salâm, the very important and rich island of Zançibâr (also known as Çâr-i Kara), the northern tip of Madagascar (Kuzey Madağâskâr), with its capital in New Kuwait (İkuvêyt-i Yeñi), and the Islands of the Moon (Otrâğuler-i Ây).
In the modern-day and age, the Ottoman Empire is governed by Emperor Os̱mân IV, who carries multiple titles and honorifics that reflect Turkish history and the influence of multiple cultures, such as Shahanshah (Şâhenşâh), Sultan of Sultans (Sulṭânü's-Selâṭîn), Khagan (Ḫâkan) and Autocrator (Oṭokrâtör). He resides in the Serây-i Nebûḫâtneṣṣâr (Palace of Nebuchadnezzar), in the capital of Bağdad-Kṭîzpôn.
For centuries, the Ottomans have been a prime naval power, and since the 15th century, they have exerted control over several ports in India, Indonesia and Azania, thus leaving behind a vast diaspora, and expanding the influence of Nestorian Christianity even further beyond what the Mongols managed to do, crowning themselves as the champions of its cause.
In India, Turkic and Iranic peoples dominated the northern regions for several centuries - Turkic dynasties can still be seen ruling over the mouth of the Indus in Sindh, and in the mouth of the Ganges, in Bengal. The Ottomans, however, still have an exclave in the land of Gujarat, known as Atpârakâ-İsmailiye.
In Indonesia, the Ottomans had multiple trading partners and competed with the Greeks, the Dutch, the Portuguese and the Persians for influence. The Ottomans retain two exclaves in the great island of Sumatra, the first and the most populous is in the north - Bender-i Açe. A few kilometres south, they have another port - Ḫüdâvendigâriye. In the island of Borneo, the Ottomans also have the possession of Sârâvâk, also known as the Land of the Hornbills, Keñalân, or the Land of Quiet, Ülke-yi Tınışlik. Its capital is located in Küçeñ, formerly known as New Trebizond (Tırabızon-i Yeñi), named by Greco-Turkish explorer Nikêfuros Ḫulörkokês, a native of the Black Sea city. Adjacent to it is the island of Söğütlü (Otruğ-i Söğütlü). Down south, in the island of Java, the Ottomans have two smaller exclaves - the ports of Şıḥara and Bekâsı, the latter right next to the imposing Dutch possession of Betuwestad.
In Africa, the Ottomans were very active in the region of Azania and the island of Madagascar, especially through their Mazuni (Omani) subjects, with many places thus receiving an Arabic-influenced name. The Ottoman possessions in this area are as follows: East Africa (Doğu Âfrikâ), with its capital in Darü's-Salâm, the very important and rich island of Zançibâr (also known as Çâr-i Kara), the northern tip of Madagascar (Kuzey Madağâskâr), with its capital in New Kuwait (İkuvêyt-i Yeñi), and the Islands of the Moon (Otrâğuler-i Ây).
In the modern-day and age, the Ottoman Empire is governed by Emperor Os̱mân IV, who carries multiple titles and honorifics that reflect Turkish history and the influence of multiple cultures, such as Shahanshah (Şâhenşâh), Sultan of Sultans (Sulṭânü's-Selâṭîn), Khagan (Ḫâkan) and Autocrator (Oṭokrâtör). He resides in the Serây-i Nebûḫâtneṣṣâr (Palace of Nebuchadnezzar), in the capital of Bağdad-Kṭîzpôn.
PS. Turkish ITTL is more akin to Ottoman Turkish, featuring several loanwords - but nowhere near OTL's level - and it's written in the Pahlavi script, which wasn't replaced by Arabic in Iran.
PPS. This is set in the modern-day. Also, there's no decolonization. If you think that the Ottomans have way too many territories, just wait until you see the Byzantines... or the British... or the Dutch... or the Portuguese... or the French... or the Persians...
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No, of course not, I have made such scenarios myself, but when you start a post with "The Nazi regime, even if it did rid Europe of Judeo-Bolshevism, was clearly an evil one", no quotation marks, italics, title, introduction, anything, it 100% gives off the wrong vibes.
Oops. Spent so much time on damn wiktionary trying to look for different terms to change TTL's Turkish a bit, I ended up reusing one. Changed it, thanks.
True, but when the unhappy beholders are probably the majority of the viewers, and it's about frikin' Nazis, it's polite (and sensible) to change it. Stirring up shit is not encouraged on this board.
Dagoth Ur
Banned
Considering the amount of likes I got compared to Enterriano I'd say it's just about equal. Certainly you can't say unhappy beholders are the majority. I don't see what's impolite about posting a map with in-universe perspective. What IS impolite is "stirring up shit" as you say by insinuating someone's a frickin' NAZI just because they don't have big THE TEXT CONTAINED HEREIN IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE OPINIONS OF THE AUTHOR in their post.
Likes is hardly a statistically unbiased sample, and I'm not insinuating anything. But I shall cut off conversation because I really do not want to add to off-topic-ness. Bye.
Except 1. It's generally food form to include that distinction, 2. We have unfortunately had quite a few actual neo-nazis and their ilk here before who have done similar things and 3. There is unfortunately a noticably large minority of Neo-Nazi's, Far Right persons and generally terrible people with an interest in alt. history.
I kind of agree with Dagoth on this one, Bruce.
Nazi victory scenarios have been the mainstay of alternate history since the beginning. Calbear himself has a very successful, and published, timeline set after the Nazis win. It never used to be an issue, but now it seems whenever someone posits any kind of scenario of the sort people seem almost eager to hit report and demand clarification as though they're going to get a gold star from the admin for rooting out a closet-Nazi.
I get that people are jumpy about it, especially as recently racial politics has been far more at the fore than ever in the board's history, but still, we should give people the benefit of the doubt or at least just hit 'report' alone and let the mods suss it out without comment.
That could be true in other alternate history circles I am not aware of, but speaking from personal experience that doesn't really apply to this site.
That being said, I agree that it would've been better to include some sort of clarification about the writing being in-universe.
Personally, I didn't mind the original map: I did assume that the opinions expressed were purely in-universe. [1] But I think people have a right to be a touch offended: with the Holocaust, it's one topic where it's still "too soon" for jokes, unless you're Jewish and very funny (see, Mel Brooks).
And here I am commenting again. Better stay away from this a while.
[1] Although I did get a little annoyed after someone pointed out it could be a pisstake on Biden and Afghanistan.
You don't notice it as much because our moderation bans them pretty fast, though in the past we did have a few over time who were smart enough not to show their hand right away, but we're eventually banned when they said reprehensible stuff.
Scenario: Golden age.
A country's economy grows significantly, it's military is powerful, is stable, is technologically advanced and it is larger.
A country's economy grows significantly, it's military is powerful, is stable, is technologically advanced and it is larger.
Continuing the timezone ISOT series, UTC+12:00 and UTC+12:45.
UTC+12:00
Regions transported: Russia (Chukotka, Kamchatka), Wake Island, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Kiribati (Gilbert Islands), Tuvalu, Wallis and Futuna, Fiji, New Zealand (exc. Chatham Islands)
As some of the most remote areas of Russia, the Event provided the Chukotka and Kamchatka with the opportunity to expand to the west, south and east and to the explore and potentially exploit the virgin resources they found there. Soon drilling had started in the Sea of Okhotsk with pipelines being laid to the newly constructed ports on southern Sakhalin. The settlement of Sakhalin also opened up the Amur valley and Hokkaido to provide much need food for the northern towns. The real prize for the Russians however was across the Bering Strait - the vast oil fields of Alaska's north slope. In pursuit of the promised black gold, the town of Novaya Ankoridzh was established at the head of the Cook Inlet, from where a road was constructed across Alyaska to the settlement of Abramovichgrad on the Arctic coast.
News of the Russian colonisation of what had been an American state was met by outrage by the remnants of the United States, now consisting of the military bases at Wake Island and Kwajalein in the Marshall Islands, as well as the newly established civilian settlements in the Mariana Islands. In an effort to regain some of their rightfully territory, expeditions were sent to Midway and the main Hawaiian islands. However for all their military hardware, the United States was still reliant on the Marshall Islands for provision of many services and was increasingly struggling to make the lease payments on Kwajalein, as well as being forced to turn to Russia for their energy needs, causing much hurt to American pride.
Not as overly concerned with their international standing, the Pacific island nations were instead enjoying a world scrubbed of much of the damage caused by humans, with the Pacific garbage islands gone, CO2 level restored to natural levels and no acidification of the oceans. While some such as Tuvalu were content to just enjoy not being faced with losing their country, Kiribati declared the Phoenix Islands a protected area while New Zealand designated the restored Great Barrier Reef and Coral Sea as wildlife refuges. Nauru however did not befit from the global reset as their island remained a desert of depleted limestone, and with the loss of Australian money were forced to close down the immigration detention facility which employed many Nauruans. Some of these freed detainees did eventually make it to Australia's north-eastern coasts, while their former guards settled in the Santa Cruz Islands north of New Zealand's Vanuatu reserve.
In contrast to Russia's energy focused expansion in the north, New Zealand's expansion was westwards to Australia or "West Island" and focused on putting the lands of the Murray river system under cultivation. New Zealand therefore became the Pacific's breadbasket while Russia was it's energy source. Wary of an over-reliance on Russia, and of repeating the mistakes that had led to the pre-Event climate crisis, the Kiwis invested in renewable solar energy for the West Island farms, covering much of the bush in panels, and wind farms at home, handily providing enough electricity for everyone to watch as the All Blacks thrash the Fijian rugby team!
UTC+12:45
Regions transported: New Zealand (Chatham Islands)
Cut off from New Zealand's main islands, and the rest of the world, the Chatham Islanders were forced to turn inwards and look to themselves to survive in the lonely Pacific Ocean. While this proved too difficult for some individuals, overall the islanders proved to be capable at catering to their own needs. Interest also grew in the island's Moriori heritage as people looked to how they had adapted to live on the islands before the arrival of the Māori and Europeans, and thus increasingly the Moriori name of Rēkohu came to be used by the community to refer to their home. Nevertheless, there was still a limit to how much food and other resources could be provided by Rēkohu itself, leading to some younger islanders crossing the ocean to establish farming settlements on South Island. The colonies' population was predominantly seasonal with many workers returning home outside the growing season, leaving only a residual presence on South Island.
UTC+12:00
Regions transported: Russia (Chukotka, Kamchatka), Wake Island, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Kiribati (Gilbert Islands), Tuvalu, Wallis and Futuna, Fiji, New Zealand (exc. Chatham Islands)
As some of the most remote areas of Russia, the Event provided the Chukotka and Kamchatka with the opportunity to expand to the west, south and east and to the explore and potentially exploit the virgin resources they found there. Soon drilling had started in the Sea of Okhotsk with pipelines being laid to the newly constructed ports on southern Sakhalin. The settlement of Sakhalin also opened up the Amur valley and Hokkaido to provide much need food for the northern towns. The real prize for the Russians however was across the Bering Strait - the vast oil fields of Alaska's north slope. In pursuit of the promised black gold, the town of Novaya Ankoridzh was established at the head of the Cook Inlet, from where a road was constructed across Alyaska to the settlement of Abramovichgrad on the Arctic coast.
News of the Russian colonisation of what had been an American state was met by outrage by the remnants of the United States, now consisting of the military bases at Wake Island and Kwajalein in the Marshall Islands, as well as the newly established civilian settlements in the Mariana Islands. In an effort to regain some of their rightfully territory, expeditions were sent to Midway and the main Hawaiian islands. However for all their military hardware, the United States was still reliant on the Marshall Islands for provision of many services and was increasingly struggling to make the lease payments on Kwajalein, as well as being forced to turn to Russia for their energy needs, causing much hurt to American pride.
Not as overly concerned with their international standing, the Pacific island nations were instead enjoying a world scrubbed of much of the damage caused by humans, with the Pacific garbage islands gone, CO2 level restored to natural levels and no acidification of the oceans. While some such as Tuvalu were content to just enjoy not being faced with losing their country, Kiribati declared the Phoenix Islands a protected area while New Zealand designated the restored Great Barrier Reef and Coral Sea as wildlife refuges. Nauru however did not befit from the global reset as their island remained a desert of depleted limestone, and with the loss of Australian money were forced to close down the immigration detention facility which employed many Nauruans. Some of these freed detainees did eventually make it to Australia's north-eastern coasts, while their former guards settled in the Santa Cruz Islands north of New Zealand's Vanuatu reserve.
In contrast to Russia's energy focused expansion in the north, New Zealand's expansion was westwards to Australia or "West Island" and focused on putting the lands of the Murray river system under cultivation. New Zealand therefore became the Pacific's breadbasket while Russia was it's energy source. Wary of an over-reliance on Russia, and of repeating the mistakes that had led to the pre-Event climate crisis, the Kiwis invested in renewable solar energy for the West Island farms, covering much of the bush in panels, and wind farms at home, handily providing enough electricity for everyone to watch as the All Blacks thrash the Fijian rugby team!
UTC+12:45
Regions transported: New Zealand (Chatham Islands)
Cut off from New Zealand's main islands, and the rest of the world, the Chatham Islanders were forced to turn inwards and look to themselves to survive in the lonely Pacific Ocean. While this proved too difficult for some individuals, overall the islanders proved to be capable at catering to their own needs. Interest also grew in the island's Moriori heritage as people looked to how they had adapted to live on the islands before the arrival of the Māori and Europeans, and thus increasingly the Moriori name of Rēkohu came to be used by the community to refer to their home. Nevertheless, there was still a limit to how much food and other resources could be provided by Rēkohu itself, leading to some younger islanders crossing the ocean to establish farming settlements on South Island. The colonies' population was predominantly seasonal with many workers returning home outside the growing season, leaving only a residual presence on South Island.
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