Map Thread XX

Status
Not open for further replies.
sylj7atyjpc61.png

This is an example of a timeline going completely out of control. ‘What if Zoroastrianism returned?’ eventually evolved into global trade empires centered around the Indian Ocean dominating world politics. This is not very realistic, but I just wanted to wank the fire worshipers.

The Zoroastrian Ziyarid dynasty managed to take over large sections of Persia in the 10th century. They would have certainly fallen to outside powers had one thing not happened.

It’s a bird! It’s a plane! It’s the Seljuk Turks, who converted to a militant branch of Zoroastrianism, and they poured into the middle east, taking back Ctesiphon and pushing all the way to the Aegean Sea. The Seljuks were not very tolerant of the Islamic population of Persia, leading to most of them leaving for India, which soon became even more entrenched into the Islamic world than OTL.

In time, a new sect of Islam, pioneered by the Islamic scholar and grand vizier to the Sultan of Bidar, Syed Al-Mutahari, known as Mutaharirite Islam. This new sect combined Islamic beliefs with a few practices from other religions, integrating meditation and Buddhist principles into the faith. It also controversially advocated for the mass distribution of the Quran and translation into commonly spoken languages, even going so far as to permit Salah to be read in languages other than Arabic. Although it was strongly criticized among the scholar class of the Arab world and some parts of India, it was received well among much of India’s population, including many Hindus, Buddhists and Janis.

Arabian Islam would take another catastrophic hit when the crusades, once directed at the Zoroastrian invaders in Persia took a turn toward Islamic ruled Egypt. The crusades also temporarily drove the Seljuks out of Anatolia, although they did sack Constantinople and take over the rest of the Byzantines later on.

And then came the Mongols, absolutely devastating China, Central Asia and Persia, building an Empire from Germany to Japan. Much of the Mongol leadership would convert to Zoroastrianism, including those from as far away as China, further cementing the religion as one of the most dominant in the world.

However, one wealthy land was not conquered by the mongols: India. The sultans of India, which had long since been cut off from the world by the Persians, heavily invested in maritime trade. As the mongols were conquering the land, the Indians were conquering the seas, with them establishing trade contact with lands as far away as Europe and China. Indian explorers would land in Tamhanakar (South America), Indian traders would haggle with Norsemen (exchanging their shipbuilding secrets), and Indian missionaries would spread their religions to newfound corners of the globe.

Europe managed to eventually drive off the Mongol invasions, mainly due to a tiny little crusader group known as the Teutonic Order. They carried out assassinations of Mongol leadership, seized Mongol fortresses and eventually started a rebellion (alongside a Lithuanian king) which would drive the Mongols from Europe. The Grandmaster in charge of many of these campaigns, Volkhard von Krieger, would soon reform the order into a new entity: the Teutonic Empire. In the meantime, the English kings would triumph over the French (thanks to constant mongol raids) in their century-long war, and proclaim the Angevin Empire.

The Teutons would continue their expansion, conquering the chaotic mess that Germany had become after the Mongol invasion, and even taking Rome itself. Unfortunately for the Catholic Church, the Teutons were no longer fans of Papal authority (due to it subverting the rule of the High King), and sacked the city. Two rival papal churches would be set up, one in Canterbury (under the thumb of the Angevin king) and one in Alexandria (in crusader Egypt).

China would never put itself back together again after the Mongol invasion. Much of Northern China had converted to Zoroastrianism, while the south held on to traditional Chinese beliefs. A new religion/philosophy movement, the Tai school of thought (Confusism+Daoism+Buddism+a sprinkle of Zorastrianism and Islam) would gain prominence in post-mongol China.

Europeans (really just the Kalmar Union) had some limited contact with Vinland from years before, but the Angevin Empire would soon expand onto the new continent, egged on by Indian merchants. They would conquer the old Norse colony, and soon spread across the East coast of the continent, coming into conflict with the now world spanning Indian trade empires and even a few Asian states.

A bunch of Indian and Arab traders and political exiles wound up on OTL South Africa around 1400, and they banded together to form the Confederation of Sakarkar (named after a naval commander who had the revolutionary idea of sticking cannons with wheels on ships and the first person to get to Europe from India). Sakarkar would go through an immense rise to power, at one point controlling an empire spanning from Mehrian to Atora (New Zealand) before being completely ganged on by all the other maritime powers and partitioned up in 1563. The effects of the fall of Sakarkar are still being felt today.

A couple colonial expeditions, political changes, civil wars and plagues, and here we are today, in the year 1600 (with a technology level near the 1800’s).
Sidenote: ‘Continents’ are rather wonky in this timeline, see the insert map for more.

Vinland, named after an old, abandoned Norse colony on its shores is mainly dominated by European colonist nations in the East and Sinic protectorates in the West, with a couple Zoroastrian and Hindu holdings. European Vinland was mainly a dumping ground for rebellious groups, which eventually managed to develop into societies and explore deep into the continent. The Vinlandian confederation, currently the strongest state in the continent, is working to expand across the vast plains in the Vinnish interior. The Sinic protectorates are influenced by members of the League of Syn from across the great Sinic Ocean. There are also many minor native kingdoms, and vassals to the Thalassocratic nation of Mehrian. Also, Hindu Texas.

Talaticota (Central America) was historically the most populated region of the New World, with the Mekhiska Empire dominating the region. The Mekhsika often fight wars against their historical enemy, the Mayans, who have banded together under a confederation. The nearby Carrib Sea is home to a couple far flung colonial outposts, as well as many more Mehriani port cities and slave plantations.

Tamhanakar is another diverse continent, with a similar ethnic makeup as Vinland. It is dominated by New Sakarkar, alongside many Hindu kingdoms, as well as a few native confederations and a bunch of religious jungle knights. The interior of the continent is slowly being colonized.

Europe is not as dominant as it was in OTL, but it is one of the better off regions of the world. The Teutonic Empire is by far the strongest country here, with the rest of the continent breaking into ‘balance of power’ wars against the Teutons. Their main rivals are the Angevins, Danes, Lithuanians and Hungarians. The Zoroastrian powers of the Farahanids and the Zhyrgalids are knocking on the door.

The OTL continent of Africa is divided into two regions, which are Africa (North of the Sahara and rift valley) and Alkebulan (the rest). Africa is mainly Christian, although the Saharan interior and West is still Muslim (for now), with the Catholic Egyptians controlling a large empire. A Saharan religious figure recently popped out and has formed a new faith and is going on a conquest of Africa.

Alkebulan is mainly under the whim of colonial powers and ex-colonies, with Oman, Sindh, the Rahmanids and Angevins controlling large tracts of territories. The colonial powers control small cities and ports and influence many minor African kingdoms. There are a few large African empires in the Sahel, but the largest empires are former Indian colonies such as the Brahmavriddhis and Sakarkar.

Asia (the Middle East and Central Asia) is mainly dominated by Zoroastrian powers, with a few Islamic countries here and there. The region is fairly well developed, aside for some rural desert regions which are sometimes millennia behind.

Hind is the richest and most powerful region of the world. The vast merchant fleets of the coastal kingdoms travel around the world, bringing goods and ideas to the people of Hind. The region/continent is the heartland of Mutaharirite Islam, which is the largest religion there, surpassing Hinduism in terms of followers. Hind is also home to many microstates which survive due to being allied with greater powers through marriages and trade deals.

Syn (East Asia) is generally dominated by a power struggle between the Zoroastrian Yin Dynasty, the Qiang Dynasty and the league of Syn. The league also controls Japan, and it’s members sport large trade empires in a fashion similar to India. South of the Sinic mainland are a couple minor kingdoms, which are struggling to modernize.

Nusantara is a cluster of islands controlled by trade powers. Complex webs of ports, treaties and island bases ensure that the balance of power is kept in the region. The continent of Dakshindesh to the South is home to many outposts, minor kingdoms and colonies of crazy people wishing to escape society. Lastly, the great ocean to the East is full of islands slowly being consumed by empires from all around it.
 

Venditg

Banned
niani_pact___west_africa_mutual_aid_network_by_marcosceia_debcgnv-fullview.png

[deviantart]
As hinted in my last map, here's West Africa in this as-of-yet unnamed TL. Mali (roughly OTL Senegambia + Kayes) is the cultural and economic powerhouse of West Africa. Rising from the ashes of the Outremerine colonial domains after its dissolution in the Outremerine War/African Wars of Independence/French Colonial Civil War, Mali has refused any and all support from Red France after independence, as well as guaranteeing that its neighbours wouldn't fall prey to British, Red or American designs. As such, The People's Republic of Mali was an ardent supporter of alt-thirdworldism. The reform of the mutual defense pact into an international governance treaty - and its expansion beyond former French Areas - is the result of Gaynde Ndiou's skillful diplomacy.

My main inspiration for the Niani Pact was actually Cuba's 'charm offensive'. Mali isn't affected by a trade embargo, and socialist governments are far more common in Third World countries, which were affected by a decolonization that put the US and the Interntionale on the same side, against British (and to a lesse degree Portuguese and German) monopolistic colonialism.

and for a bonus, here's the stamp in a higher definition:
View attachment 612397
@Falklandia ehy would you something similar for me?
 

This is a great map, I do love Hungary, a unique and fascinating nation, and you do it justice.

Is Hungary Catholic? Or gone Protestantism? (Calvinist and Lutheranism?)

How Hungarian/Magyar is Libya?

Who are Hungary allies, friends and rivals? (IE: The Eastern Romans surviving and saving Hungary in the first place.)
Thanks!

Hungary is majority catholic, albeit (due to various shenanigans from our NationStates region), the Hungarian Catholic Church is independent from the papacy. As such it’s ended up a kind of synthesis with Calvinist beliefs. Orthodoxy is the next largest religion of union, then followed by various other minor Christian variants.

Libya has about 260,000 Hungarians in it, however combined with the totals of other immigrants mainly involved with the oil industry, whites just about make an ethnic majority. Regardless, Libya is majority Christian thanks to various butterflies, and the populace are probably the most content of the “integrated” overseas states (colonies).

In terms of allies, the Unions strongest friends are the Eastern Roman Empire to the South, the Scandinavian Union (Mega Sweden-Finland) to the far North, and the Kingdom of Czechogalesia immediately bordering to the North (which is in a personal union with Jagiellonia). The main enemy is the Soviet Federation on the immediate Eastern border together with their puppet of Poland, whilst relations with Italy are equally unfriendly. Relations with the German Empire are amicable at the moment but have been historically unfriendly.
 
made a little balkanized germany with the added difference of the success of the baltic germans to gain courland and a union state between them and east prussia
1611267038058.png
 
And next, a 'what if Antony didn't fall face first into a fucking sword and die'. Assumes Parthian Campaign works, assumes he remains popular, assumes Octavian continues to mismanage things early in his reign (or perhaps gets killed in the Liberators Civil War). Most of the 'Egyptian' lands are formally Roman, but Antony gave great authority to Cleopatra and Caesarion. Includes the lands of Alexander Helios and Ptolemy.
 

Attachments

  • antony 1.png
    antony 1.png
    23.2 KB · Views: 568
This is an example of a timeline going completely out of control. ‘What if Zoroastrianism returned?’ eventually evolved into global trade empires centered around the Indian Ocean dominating world politics. This is not very realistic, but I just wanted to wank the fire worshipers.

Nice! Original, too.

("THE FIRE-WORSHIPPERS SHALL NOT PASS" made me chuckle.)

Minor presentation quibbles: shouldn't Finnish "Pagan Christianity" have a separate color of it's own? Hungary is also lacking a label, and the numbering does a stutter in the 30s and restarts (not that I haven't done that myself)

Plausibility: I can hardly argue with the likelihood of a Zoroastrian revival in the 10th century, since it's the basis of the whole timeline. However, there are a couple minor bones I'd like to pick: the Calmar Union's formation postdates the POD by over 4 centuries, probably needs another name. Also, Steppe empires fall apart on their own all the time: they don't need Mary-Sue-Teuton to overthrow them (well, yes, I do consider the Teutonic Knights overrated in AH. I blame Warhammer).

And speaking of Warhammer, "the Slavs... are about as alive as the Goths ITL" is a bit Grimdark and doesn't strike me as too plausible (For one thing, I am doubtful about the Lithuanians assimilating them, rather than the other way around. It didn't work that way OTL. And I'm not entirely sure what message "A Germany run by the Teutonic Knights is the greatest power in Europe, has murdered or assimilated the Slavs west of Lithuania out of existence, is opposed by an Anglo-French union, and is encircled by other states hostile to its dominance" sends to readers, but I'm not sure it's the best one. :angel: )
 
sylj7atyjpc61.png

This is an example of a timeline going completely out of control. ‘What if Zoroastrianism returned?’ eventually evolved into global trade empires centered around the Indian Ocean dominating world politics. This is not very realistic, but I just wanted to wank the fire worshipers.

The Zoroastrian Ziyarid dynasty managed to take over large sections of Persia in the 10th century. They would have certainly fallen to outside powers had one thing not happened.

It’s a bird! It’s a plane! It’s the Seljuk Turks, who converted to a militant branch of Zoroastrianism, and they poured into the middle east, taking back Ctesiphon and pushing all the way to the Aegean Sea. The Seljuks were not very tolerant of the Islamic population of Persia, leading to most of them leaving for India, which soon became even more entrenched into the Islamic world than OTL.

In time, a new sect of Islam, pioneered by the Islamic scholar and grand vizier to the Sultan of Bidar, Syed Al-Mutahari, known as Mutaharirite Islam. This new sect combined Islamic beliefs with a few practices from other religions, integrating meditation and Buddhist principles into the faith. It also controversially advocated for the mass distribution of the Quran and translation into commonly spoken languages, even going so far as to permit Salah to be read in languages other than Arabic. Although it was strongly criticized among the scholar class of the Arab world and some parts of India, it was received well among much of India’s population, including many Hindus, Buddhists and Janis.

Arabian Islam would take another catastrophic hit when the crusades, once directed at the Zoroastrian invaders in Persia took a turn toward Islamic ruled Egypt. The crusades also temporarily drove the Seljuks out of Anatolia, although they did sack Constantinople and take over the rest of the Byzantines later on.

And then came the Mongols, absolutely devastating China, Central Asia and Persia, building an Empire from Germany to Japan. Much of the Mongol leadership would convert to Zoroastrianism, including those from as far away as China, further cementing the religion as one of the most dominant in the world.

However, one wealthy land was not conquered by the mongols: India. The sultans of India, which had long since been cut off from the world by the Persians, heavily invested in maritime trade. As the mongols were conquering the land, the Indians were conquering the seas, with them establishing trade contact with lands as far away as Europe and China. Indian explorers would land in Tamhanakar (South America), Indian traders would haggle with Norsemen (exchanging their shipbuilding secrets), and Indian missionaries would spread their religions to newfound corners of the globe.

Europe managed to eventually drive off the Mongol invasions, mainly due to a tiny little crusader group known as the Teutonic Order. They carried out assassinations of Mongol leadership, seized Mongol fortresses and eventually started a rebellion (alongside a Lithuanian king) which would drive the Mongols from Europe. The Grandmaster in charge of many of these campaigns, Volkhard von Krieger, would soon reform the order into a new entity: the Teutonic Empire. In the meantime, the English kings would triumph over the French (thanks to constant mongol raids) in their century-long war, and proclaim the Angevin Empire.

The Teutons would continue their expansion, conquering the chaotic mess that Germany had become after the Mongol invasion, and even taking Rome itself. Unfortunately for the Catholic Church, the Teutons were no longer fans of Papal authority (due to it subverting the rule of the High King), and sacked the city. Two rival papal churches would be set up, one in Canterbury (under the thumb of the Angevin king) and one in Alexandria (in crusader Egypt).

China would never put itself back together again after the Mongol invasion. Much of Northern China had converted to Zoroastrianism, while the south held on to traditional Chinese beliefs. A new religion/philosophy movement, the Tai school of thought (Confusism+Daoism+Buddism+a sprinkle of Zorastrianism and Islam) would gain prominence in post-mongol China.

Europeans (really just the Kalmar Union) had some limited contact with Vinland from years before, but the Angevin Empire would soon expand onto the new continent, egged on by Indian merchants. They would conquer the old Norse colony, and soon spread across the East coast of the continent, coming into conflict with the now world spanning Indian trade empires and even a few Asian states.

A bunch of Indian and Arab traders and political exiles wound up on OTL South Africa around 1400, and they banded together to form the Confederation of Sakarkar (named after a naval commander who had the revolutionary idea of sticking cannons with wheels on ships and the first person to get to Europe from India). Sakarkar would go through an immense rise to power, at one point controlling an empire spanning from Mehrian to Atora (New Zealand) before being completely ganged on by all the other maritime powers and partitioned up in 1563. The effects of the fall of Sakarkar are still being felt today.

A couple colonial expeditions, political changes, civil wars and plagues, and here we are today, in the year 1600 (with a technology level near the 1800’s).
Sidenote: ‘Continents’ are rather wonky in this timeline, see the insert map for more.

Vinland, named after an old, abandoned Norse colony on its shores is mainly dominated by European colonist nations in the East and Sinic protectorates in the West, with a couple Zoroastrian and Hindu holdings. European Vinland was mainly a dumping ground for rebellious groups, which eventually managed to develop into societies and explore deep into the continent. The Vinlandian confederation, currently the strongest state in the continent, is working to expand across the vast plains in the Vinnish interior. The Sinic protectorates are influenced by members of the League of Syn from across the great Sinic Ocean. There are also many minor native kingdoms, and vassals to the Thalassocratic nation of Mehrian. Also, Hindu Texas.

Talaticota (Central America) was historically the most populated region of the New World, with the Mekhiska Empire dominating the region. The Mekhsika often fight wars against their historical enemy, the Mayans, who have banded together under a confederation. The nearby Carrib Sea is home to a couple far flung colonial outposts, as well as many more Mehriani port cities and slave plantations.

Tamhanakar is another diverse continent, with a similar ethnic makeup as Vinland. It is dominated by New Sakarkar, alongside many Hindu kingdoms, as well as a few native confederations and a bunch of religious jungle knights. The interior of the continent is slowly being colonized.

Europe is not as dominant as it was in OTL, but it is one of the better off regions of the world. The Teutonic Empire is by far the strongest country here, with the rest of the continent breaking into ‘balance of power’ wars against the Teutons. Their main rivals are the Angevins, Danes, Lithuanians and Hungarians. The Zoroastrian powers of the Farahanids and the Zhyrgalids are knocking on the door.

The OTL continent of Africa is divided into two regions, which are Africa (North of the Sahara and rift valley) and Alkebulan (the rest). Africa is mainly Christian, although the Saharan interior and West is still Muslim (for now), with the Catholic Egyptians controlling a large empire. A Saharan religious figure recently popped out and has formed a new faith and is going on a conquest of Africa.

Alkebulan is mainly under the whim of colonial powers and ex-colonies, with Oman, Sindh, the Rahmanids and Angevins controlling large tracts of territories. The colonial powers control small cities and ports and influence many minor African kingdoms. There are a few large African empires in the Sahel, but the largest empires are former Indian colonies such as the Brahmavriddhis and Sakarkar.

Asia (the Middle East and Central Asia) is mainly dominated by Zoroastrian powers, with a few Islamic countries here and there. The region is fairly well developed, aside for some rural desert regions which are sometimes millennia behind.

Hind is the richest and most powerful region of the world. The vast merchant fleets of the coastal kingdoms travel around the world, bringing goods and ideas to the people of Hind. The region/continent is the heartland of Mutaharirite Islam, which is the largest religion there, surpassing Hinduism in terms of followers. Hind is also home to many microstates which survive due to being allied with greater powers through marriages and trade deals.

Syn (East Asia) is generally dominated by a power struggle between the Zoroastrian Yin Dynasty, the Qiang Dynasty and the league of Syn. The league also controls Japan, and it’s members sport large trade empires in a fashion similar to India. South of the Sinic mainland are a couple minor kingdoms, which are struggling to modernize.

Nusantara is a cluster of islands controlled by trade powers. Complex webs of ports, treaties and island bases ensure that the balance of power is kept in the region. The continent of Dakshindesh to the South is home to many outposts, minor kingdoms and colonies of crazy people wishing to escape society. Lastly, the great ocean to the East is full of islands slowly being consumed by empires from all around it.
I always had a soft spot for non-eurocentric worlds. Absolutely wonderful.
 
jpG428f.jpg


A tremendously ASB map from the TL of my NationStates region Pax Britannia (https://www.nationstates.net/region=pax_britannia). Broadly a mega Hungary (who avoided obliteration by the Ottomans thanks to a surviving Byzantinium) who now dominates the Carpathian Basin/Balkans and integrated them into the so-called Jagiellonian Union. Jagiellonia (Hungary) also picked up a few colonies over the years, most prominently Libya, but also a chunk of the Levant, a bit of OTL Gabon, Cabinda, and Walvis Bay in Namibia.

The nation is a unitary state dominated by the Hungarians in Buda, much to the chagrin of the union's lesser minorities. The government is a one-party state led by Palatine Laszlo Bardossy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/László_Bárdossy), with a consitiutional monarchy. The royal dynasty is the house of Zapoyla, but they kept the heritage of the extinct-Jagiellonian Dynasty.

So yeah I guess a Hungary wank.
Very good work. The artificial lakes in OTL Libya and Egypt were filled how? Are they filled with fresh water or salt water? Are they a success?
 
Yeahhh, they’re very ASB. But broadly it’s based on a similar kinda scheme to Gadaffi’s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man-Made_River, albeit making use of depressions to store the fresh water rather than tanks.
It wasn't to get you stuck that I was asking the question. I myself am thinking about powers in Africa that create great lakes in the Sahara or the Sahel. But these ideas run up against the wall of realization, which gives either an aborted project due to lack of means or results or an ecological disaster (if I am not mistaken there have been ideas to fill the Qattara Depression by using nuclear weapons for example).
Seeing your map I thought that you have finally found the solution!
 
Yeahhh, they’re very ASB. But broadly it’s based on a similar kinda scheme to Gadaffi’s https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man-Made_River, albeit making use of depressions to store the fresh water rather than tanks.
Aside from the interior one, I think the ones in Cyrenaica certainly wouldn't be ASB if you concentrated the water pipes in the relevant areas and kept the lakes filled. Although I believe it's more efficient to just use the water for agriculture.
It wasn't to get you stuck that I was asking the question. I myself am thinking about powers in Africa that create great lakes in the Sahara or the Sahel. But these ideas run up against the wall of realization, which gives either an aborted project due to lack of means or results or an ecological disaster (if I am not mistaken there have been ideas to fill the Qattara Depression by using nuclear weapons for example).
Seeing your map I thought that you have finally found the solution!
It wouldn't be the nuclear aspect of the Qattara Project that could cause an ecological disaster, its more the potential for salination of the groundwater of the Siwa Oasis and a few smaller oases which IIRC studies disagree on the likelihood.
 
It wouldn't be the nuclear aspect of the Qattara Project that could cause an ecological disaster, its more the potential for salination of the groundwater of the Siwa Oasis and a few smaller oases which IIRC studies disagree on the likelihood.
I did not deny the danger of uncontrolled salinization, or the detour and waste of fresh water from the Nile to fill the Qattara Depression. But having fun nuclearizing the region is the best way to make the weak results negative.
 
Warning
This is a valid critique that I wish I had considered before posting. Thank you. Now I deleted it. When I am well I could explain more what I was thinking if anyone cares

you are correct. The other changes were due to what you figured. But I did not intend to erase African history & deleted when it was pointed out it was doing that.
now that it's deleted i can't embrace the pure shittiness of that map D:
 
I did not deny the danger of uncontrolled salinization, or the detour and waste of fresh water from the Nile to fill the Qattara Depression. But having fun nuclearizing the region is the best way to make the weak results negative.
That's understandable, but a pre-existing precedent for "peaceful nuclear explosives" (what a term...) would keep it from escalating tensions much (and it doesn't seem like this map has the whole Egypt - Israel issue anyway). It wouldn't necessarily involve nuclear proliferation.
 
Getting this thread back on track, here's every state renamed based on it's GDP compared to the 2020 QSR Top 50 fast food chains. For example, California is #1 in GDP, so it gets the #1 restaurant in sales (McDonald's).View attachment 618983Sources:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/248053/us-real-gross-domestic-product-gdp-by-state/
https://www.qsrmagazine.com/reports/2020-qsr-50
It is mildly amusing that New York gets Chick-fil-A and Texas gets Starbucks, given the stereotypes of each state.
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top