Map Thread XX

The latest version of my Mosaic Earth! If you have a timeline that you think should be added tell me!
View attachment 600984
1983: Doomsday: Australia (what's left)
A More Perfect Union: What's left of America (south of OTL US-Canada border), American West Africa
Affilated States of Boreoamerica: Upper Country (south of OTL US-Canada border), Illinois, Ohio, Allegheny, Iroquois, West Connecticut, Carolina, Watauga, Cherokee, Labrador, all Caribbean possessions
Ĉio Sub la Steloj (my own FHTL): Canada south of 55°N and west of OTL Quebec; Japanese Sakhalin and Kuriles
Desire the Right: Patagonia
Fantendoverse Tau: Aimlo, Aereus
Golden Island to the West: California
Hail, Britannia: Gibraltar (minus OTL Gibraltar), New Ararat, OTL Matrouh Governorate, Kitara
Hatsunia: Hatsunia minus the western island
Lone Star Republic: Texas and Coahuila Commonwealths
Of Droughts and Flooding Rains: All Australian states except Australasia
Oh I Wish I was in Dixie: What's left save Virginia and North Carolina
Our Fair Country: New England
Overwatch: Watchpoint: Gibraltar, including all heroes
Super Mario Odyssey: New Donk City, placed near Staten Island
The American Dream: Quebec and Montreal, coterminous with OTL Quebec and south of 55°N; Singapore
The Legend of Zelda: The Shadow King: Hyrule, enlarged and placed in Greenland
Tomorrow Country: Canada north of 55°N; Mandatory Australia
Union of American Realms: Transylvania, Georgia, West Florida, East Florida, Mayaimi
Vanguards in the Isle of Liberty and Paradise: Escadia and all Atlantic islands
How about What Madness is This by @Napoleon53?
 
The latest version of my Mosaic Earth! If you have a timeline that you think should be added tell me!
View attachment 600984
1983: Doomsday: Australia (what's left)
A More Perfect Union: What's left of America (south of OTL US-Canada border), American West Africa
Affilated States of Boreoamerica: Upper Country (south of OTL US-Canada border), Illinois, Ohio, Allegheny, Iroquois, West Connecticut, Carolina, Watauga, Cherokee, Labrador, all Caribbean possessions
Ĉio Sub la Steloj (my own FHTL): Canada south of 55°N and west of OTL Quebec; Japanese Sakhalin and Kuriles
Desire the Right: Patagonia
Fantendoverse Tau: Aimlo, Aereus
Golden Island to the West: California
Hail, Britannia: Gibraltar (minus OTL Gibraltar), New Ararat, OTL Matrouh Governorate, Kitara
Hatsunia: Hatsunia minus the western island
Lone Star Republic: Texas and Coahuila Commonwealths
Of Droughts and Flooding Rains: All Australian states except Australasia
Oh I Wish I was in Dixie: What's left save Virginia and North Carolina
Our Fair Country: New England
Overwatch: Watchpoint: Gibraltar, including all heroes
Super Mario Odyssey: New Donk City, placed near Staten Island
The American Dream: Quebec and Montreal, coterminous with OTL Quebec and south of 55°N; Singapore
The Legend of Zelda: The Shadow King: Hyrule, enlarged and placed in Greenland
Tomorrow Country: Canada north of 55°N; Mandatory Australia
Union of American Realms: Transylvania, Georgia, West Florida, East Florida, Mayaimi
Vanguards in the Isle of Liberty and Paradise: Escadia and all Atlantic islands
Decades of Darkness,Bioshock, and Kaiserreich.
 
Another one, which is much more chaotic than the 48°34' map.
In a nutshell, the world is split into nine bands at the latitudes of 70° North and South, 50° N/S, 30° N/S, and 10° N/S. Only four of the areas survive, the other five are replaced by virgin lands.

Banded Worlds, 30 Years Later
Split by bands.png

1. The Arctic is de jure and de facto left as it was before the Event, being home to very few people and settlements. The only "major" loss was Svalbard.
2. British Columbia, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, and Newfoundland And Labrador are all gutted hard by the Event. The temporary Canadian capital is Fort McMurray.
3. Bermuda is being resettled as a British Colony.
4. The Ottawa Territory, spun off from Ontario for resettling purposes.
5. The United States is gutted hard. While there still are 50 (+2, them being Puerto Rico and Mariana) states on paper, only seven states have any real representation, and all resettlement projects in the Lower 48 are limited to south of the 35th parallel north. The largest cities, by far, are Houston and San Antonio.
6. The Event is not an excuse for the Cubans to kick the Americans out of Guantanamo. Therefore Cuba has been on a hands-off approach with that territory.
7. The Union of Gran Colombia is based out of Caracas, the Venezuelan capital.
8. Costa Rica barely avoided an invasion from Nicaragua due to Mexican intervention.
9. With New Zealand all but obliterated, the Cook Islands became independent.
10. French Polynesia, now an independent nation.
11. Guadeloupe and Martinique both went independent, while Saint-Martin and Saint Barthelemy were annexed by the Netherlands.
12. Argentina and Chile are handling the situation surprisingly well considering the loss of their capitals. The new capitals are San Miguel de Tucuman, and Antofagasta respectively.
13. What remains of Acre are annexed by Bolivia. The Bolivians are contemplating an expansion all the way to the Amazon Delta.
14. Like Bermuda, the Azores are also being colonized by the British. Unlike Bermuda, this colonization effort has been condemned by other countries.
15. Yet another British Colony could be found on the north side of the Mediterranean. Also, in the absence of the Spanish central government, the Moroccan can now claim Ceuta and Melilla.
16. Spain itself is reduced to just the Canary Islands. Tenerife is now colonizing Madeira.
17. Casamance has had enough of the Wolof-dominated Senegal and has seceded as a result.
18. Guinea-Conkary and Burkina Faso have annexed what remained of Ivory Coast, Ghana, Togo, and Benin.
19. Western Sahara managed to gain territory from all three of its neighbours. Also of note is that Algeria is really a Tuareg state based out of Adrar.
20. Libya has been reduced to just Fezzan, with its capital in Sabha.
21. Darfur declared independence in the chaos of the Event. Sudanese officials still are not pleased.
22. South Sudan's government collapsed, and is back to being under the rule of Khartoum.
23. Ethiopia also collapsed, and was split into three states. The Amhara Republic in particular is planning to rebuild Addis Ababa when it eventually reaches there.
24. The Somali Confederation, created from the remains of Ogaden, Somaliland, and Puntland.
25. Somehow, a Velvet Divorce analogue happens in Zambia.
26. Western Cape and Eastern Cape have been merged to form the Southern Cape Territory. Since the resettlement will take years, Lesotho has been given a section of this territory to assist in such efforts. Whether it is temporary or permanent is not conclusively known.
27. The Comorian-Mahorais Empire. Period.
28. Reunion was offered to join both Mauritius and and Comoros, but ultimately became independent itself.
29. While the Kerguelen Islands are reset, France (Lille government) insisted that it still is French territory.
30. Another thoroughly gutted nation, France still is hanging on through Lille. No luck for Luxembourg though, what's left of them are annexed into Belgium.
31. Germany is resettling its lands, one step at a time. Who told them to take Nancy Nanzig though?
32. Kaliningrad took the chaos as an opportunity to secede from Russia, and has not turned back since. As to Belarus, they are busy preventing themselves from being annexed by Russia.
33. Poland and Ukraine still can't seem to agree who should own Lwow/Lviv. However, given that Ukraine is busy resettling the south and struggling, Polish control over it is solidifying.
34. With falling populations, both Ukraine and Russia are finding it hard to resettle their territories. Pro-natalist policies are being implemented.
35. Russians slightly outnumber Kazakhs in Kazakhstan, but Nur-Sultan has consistently rejected annexation attempts from Russia.
36. Israel is lucky enough to have survived in Eliat. Apparently that's not enough for them, and now they are at Jerusalem and Tel Aviv's doors.
37. Yes, that's Kuwait, alive and kicking.
38. Iran is holding itself together. The fact that it still has Bandar Abbas is enough.
39. Balochistan isn't planning to expand at all. Fair enough, considering that almost all Iranian and Pakistani Balochs survived the Event.
40. Much of Tibet's control north of the 30th parallel north is theoretical. Not that the Chinese are planning to invade it anyways.
41. Being the sole superpower after the Event is not good for India. The southern and eastern states seceded, and it doesn't look like India is in a position to retake them anytime soon.
42. Attempting ethnic cleansing on the Nepali minority is the worst thing Bhutan could do after the Event. Now it's but a bantustan of Nepal.
43. Myanmar imploded after the Event, resulting in several separatist states. Interestingly the Shan did not secede while the Karen/Kayin did. It also spilled over to Thailand.
44. The Republic of Mongolia, the latest addition to Russia's ethnic republics.
45. Manchuria, based out of Heihe, managed to resist Russian influence over the last thirty years.
46. American Samoa bailed and joined its independent counterpart.
47. New Caledonia was supposed to have an independence referendum in 2020. Now it's independent for other reasons.
48. Despite losing the majority of its population, Australia still occupied the populated part of New Guinea.
49. The Indonesian remnant is headed out of Kupang, East Nusa Tenggara.
50. Japanese attempts at recolonizing the Home Islands are slower than expected, only recently reaching Kumamoto.
51. The State of the Mariana Islands. The United States haven't been completely knocked out just yet.
52. Egypt is doing better than most nations that lost their capitals as a large section of Greater Cairo, including Giza, survived the Event.
53. The Event only hastened the collapse of Yemen. Today, Yemen is split into the Houthi Sana'a government, and the Aden government.
54. The Indians (later Dravidians) reached Maldives and the British Indian Ocean Territory before the British did.
55. What was left of the Antarctic territories included Esperanza Base. As a result Argentina continued to uphold its claim. Both Chile and the United Kingdom accepted it as long as Argentine Antarctica stays permanently demilitarized.
 
Last edited:
Another one, which is much more chaotic than the 48°34' map.
In a nutshell, the world is split into nine bands at the latitudes of 70° North and South, 50° N/S, 30° N/S, and 10° N/S. Only four of the areas survive, the other five are replaced by virgin lands.

Banded Worlds, 30 Years Later
View attachment 601058
1. The Arctic is de jure and de facto left as it was before the Event, being home to very few people and settlements. The only "major" loss was Svalbard.
2. British Columbia, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, and Newfoundland And Labrador are all gutted hard by the Event. The temporary Canadian capital is Fort McMurray.
3. Bermuda is being resettled as a British Colony.
4. The Ottawa Territory, spun off from Ontario for resettling purposes.
5. The United States is gutted hard. While there still are 50 (+2, them being Puerto Rico and Mariana) states on paper, only seven states have any real representation, and all resettlement projects in the Lower 48 are limited to south of the 35th parallel north. The largest cities, by far, are Houston and San Antonio.
6. The Event is not an excuse for the Cubans to kick the Americans out of Guantanamo. Therefore Cuba has been on a hands-off approach with that territory.
7. The Union of Gran Colombia is based out of Caracas, the Venezuelan capital.
8. Costa Rica barely avoided an invasion from Nicaragua due to Mexican intervention.
9. With New Zealand all but obliterated, the Cook Islands became independent.
10. French Polynesia, now an independent nation.
11. Guadeloupe and Martinique both went independent, while Saint-Martin and Saint Barthelemy were annexed by the Netherlands.
12. Argentina and Chile are handling the situation surprisingly well considering the loss of their capitals. The new capitals are San Miguel de Tucuman, and Antofagasta respectively.
13. What remains of Acre are annexed by Bolivia. The Bolivians are contemplating an expansion all the way to the Amazon Delta.
14. Like Bermuda, the Azores are also being colonized by the British. Unlike Bermuda, this colonization effort has been condemned by other countries.
15. Yet another British Colony could be found on the north side of the Mediterranean. Also, in the absence of the Spanish central government, the Moroccan can now claim Ceuta and Melilla.
16. Spain itself is reduced to just the Canary Islands. Tenerife is now colonizing Madeira.
17. Casamance has had enough of the Wolof-dominated Senegal and has seceded as a result.
18. Guinea-Conkary and Burkina Faso have annexed what remained of Ivory Coast, Ghana, Togo, and Benin.
19. Western Sahara managed to gain territory from all three of its neighbours. Also of note is that Algeria is really a Tuareg state based out of Adrar.
20. Libya has been reduced to just Fezzan, with its capital in Sabha.
21. Darfur declared independence in the chaos of the Event. Sudanese officials still are not pleased.
22. South Sudan's government collapsed, and is back to being under the rule of Khartoum.
23. Ethiopia also collapsed, and was split into three states. The Amhara Republic in particular is planning to rebuild Addis Ababa when it eventually reaches there.
24. The Somali Confederation, created from the remains of Ogaden, Somaliland, and Puntland.
25. Somehow, a Velvet Divorce analogue happens in Zambia.
26. Western Cape and Eastern Cape have been merged to form the Southern Cape Territory. Since the resettlement will take years, Lesotho has been given a section of this territory to assist in such efforts. Whether it is temporary or permanent is not conclusively known.
27. The Comorian-Mahorais Empire. Period.
28. Reunion was offered to join both Mauritius and and Comoros, but ultimately became independent itself.
29. While the Kerguelen Islands are reset, France (Lille government) insisted that it still is French territory.
30. Another thoroughly gutted nation, France still is hanging on through Lille. No luck for Luxembourg though, what's left of them are annexed into Belgium.
31. Germany is resettling its lands, one step at a time. Who told them to take Nancy Nanzig though?
32. Kaliningrad took the chaos as an opportunity to secede from Russia, and has not turned back since. As to Belarus, they are busy preventing themselves from being annexed by Russia.
33. Poland and Ukraine still can't seem to agree who should own Lwow/Lviv. However, given that Ukraine is busy resettling the south and struggling, Polish control over it is solidifying.
34. With falling populations, both Ukraine and Russia are finding it hard to resettle their territories. Pro-natalist policies are being implemented.
35. Russians slightly outnumber Kazakhs in Kazakhstan, but Nur-Sultan has consistently rejected annexation attempts from Russia.
36. Israel is lucky enough to have survived in Eliat. Apparently that's not enough for them, and now they are at Jerusalem and Tel Aviv's doors.
37. Yes, that's Kuwait, alive and kicking.
38. Iran is holding itself together. The fact that it still has Bandar Abbas is enough.
39. Balochistan isn't planning to expand at all. Fair enough, considering that almost all Iranian and Pakistani Balochs survived the Event.
40. Much of Tibet's control north of the 30th parallel north is theoretical. Not that the Chinese are planning to invade it anyways.
41. Being the sole superpower after the Event is not good for India. The southern and eastern states seceded, and it doesn't look like India is in a position to retake them anytime soon.
42. Attempting ethnic cleansing on the Nepali minority is the worst thing Bhutan could do after the Event. Now it's but a bantustan of Nepal.
43. Myanmar imploded after the Event, resulting in several separatist states. Interestingly the Shan did not secede while the Karen/Kayin did. It also spilled over to Thailand.
44. The Republic of Mongolia, the latest addition to Russia's ethnic republics.
45. Manchuria, based out of Heihe, managed to resist Russian influence over the last thirty years.
46. American Samoa bailed and joined its independent counterpart.
47. New Caledonia was supposed to have an independence referendum in 2020. Now it's independent for other reasons.
48. Despite losing the majority of its population, Australia still occupied the populated part of New Guinea.
49. The Indonesian remnant is headed out of Kupang, East Nusa Tenggara.
50. Japanese attempts at recolonizing the Home Islands are slower than expected, only recently reaching Kumamoto.
51. The State of the Mariana Islands. The United States haven't been completely knocked out just yet.
52. Egypt is doing better than most nations that lost their capitals as a large section of Greater Cairo, including Giza, survived the Event.
53. The Event only hastened the collapse of Yemen. Today, Yemen is split into the Houthi Sana'a government, and the Aden government.
54. The Indians (later Dravidians) reached Maldives and the British Indian Ocean Territory before the British did.
55. What was left of the Antarctic territories included Esperanza Base. As a result Argentina continued to uphold its claim. Both Chile and the United Kingdom accepted it as long as Argentine Antarctica stays permanently demilitarized.
So despite losing almost everything, no one makes a move on former American territory? Including Cuba on Gitmo??? That's just a tad optimistic for the United States.
 
So despite losing almost everything, no one makes a move on former American territory? Including Cuba on Gitmo??? That's just a tad optimistic for the United States.

I wouldn't find it that surprising - international discourse isn't based around snatching territory and building empires anymore. It's more likely that the 'survivors' start making real effort towards rebuilding the world as it was. The 'virgin earth' would still be considered the rightful territory of the countries that used to occupy it by the international community. Doubtless some countries would start a snatch-and-grab but I doubt Mexico or Canada are among them.
 
I wouldn't find it that surprising - international discourse isn't based around snatching territory and building empires anymore. It's more likely that the 'survivors' start making real effort towards rebuilding the world as it was. The 'virgin earth' would still be considered the rightful territory of the countries that used to occupy it by the international community. Doubtless some countries would start a snatch-and-grab but I doubt Mexico or Canada are among them.
The US would be no longer a player and probably also fractured (at least initially) due to literally losing the entire federal government all at once. Taking back la tierra robada would be a huge prestige move for any Mexican President looking to make a name for themselves.

What's more, Cuba is absolutely going to take back Gitmo, the US only has it because of the constitution they forced Cuba to adopt in the early 20th century. The owners of the lease, the American federal government, is gone. Not to mention there's no one in a position to resupply the base and keep the lease open, at least no one that would want to do so.

I see this a lot with ISOTs. No matter how bad the hit, the US almost always pulls through ok with minimal damage, the international community gladly assisting them in retaking their rightful place as hegemon. It's an absurd trope and this scenario takes it to its extreme.
 
32. Kaliningrad took the chaos as an opportunity to secede from Russia, and has not turned back since. As to Belarus, they are busy preventing themselves from being annexed by Russia.
And for what sake? Kaliningrad is one of the most pro-Kremlin regions of Russia, where are no significant separatist movements, with the exception of tiny groups of marginals. And given that in the presented conditions Russia is becoming an unconditional world military hegemon, even despite the losses in the south, the army in Kaliningrad simply will not allow the region to be torn away.
 
Last edited:
Banded Worlds, 30 Years Later

Oh, this is very good. With the global community this badly gutted, a lot of the territorial weirdness works better than in some of the previous maps. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is Bolivia taking Acre- Brazil probably still has the strength to insist on its territorial integrity.

So despite losing almost everything, no one makes a move on former American territory? Including Cuba on Gitmo??? That's just a tad optimistic for the United States.

The rump USA is almost certainly still a nuclear power and still has a significant conventional military. It's strong enough in the short-term to make its territorial ownership stick. I'll be you anything that private citizens from Mexico, the Philippines, etc. are moving into US territory and settling there anyway, but their governments will hold off claiming any territory directly.

I would expect the US to abandon Gitmo anyway though, not because they have to but because they need to redirect the resources for re-settling America and can't afford to maintain the base.
 
Last edited:
Oh, this is very good. With the global community this badly gutted, a lot of the territorial weirdness works better than in some of the previous maps. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is Bolivia taking Acre- Brazil probably still has the strength to insist on its territorial integrity.



The rump USA is almost certainly still a nuclear power and still has a significant conventional military. It's strong enough in the short-term to make its territorial ownership stick. I'll be you anything that private citizens from Mexico, the Philippines, etc. are moving into US territory and settling there anyway, but their governments will hold off claiming any territory directly.

I would expect the US to abandon Gitmo anyway though, not because they have to but because they need to redirect the resources for re-settling America and can't afford to maintain the base.
The President is gone, the Joint Chiefs of Staff is gone, the Pentagon is (Penta)gone. There is no longer any single US military apparatus to speak of and the majority of the remnants are located in bases overseas, all of them existentially dependent on no single aspect of the United States deciding to become North Korea. Texas and Florida will likely be allowed some limited reclamation, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and Alaska will be left in relative peace. Countries with substantial US expat populations will support various successor states in American territory as suits their economic advantage in the resettling of the lost territory. The US cannot hope for a deal that turns out better than this.
 
The latest version of my Mosaic Earth! If you have a timeline that you think should be added tell me!

I would add Vereinigung der Betriebsräte from the successful Countries of an Alternate World MG (1776 POD) and, more importantly and to get a change into Africa or Southeast Asia, something from The True Divided Nation (link to this TL started and moderated by @Gabzcervo is in my signature). Like the Red Sea Directorates, for example or the United Soviets of Africa.

And maybe the German Empire from Our Fair Country, too?
 
Last edited:

A map I made for a TL I've been developing. The basic history of Britain is it's occupied by the Romans for much longer, who invite over Saxon mercenaries to defend their flank, leading to a mixed latinic-germanic Britain, butterflying away the Vikings, normans, etc. I'll probably make a full thread for the TL sometime but if you have any burning questions feel free to ask them here!
 
Last edited:
The President is gone, the Joint Chiefs of Staff is gone, the Pentagon is (Penta)gone. There is no longer any single US military apparatus to speak of and the majority of the remnants are located in bases overseas, all of them existentially dependent on no single aspect of the United States deciding to become North Korea. Texas and Florida will likely be allowed some limited reclamation, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and Alaska will be left in relative peace. Countries with substantial US expat populations will support various successor states in American territory as suits their economic advantage in the resettling of the lost territory. The US cannot hope for a deal that turns out better than this.

Uh, the USA has extensive contingency plans in place for what to do if most of the people on top are abruptly wiped and out those would go into action pretty quickly. The United States Southern Command is still mostly intact, including the US Army South, the US Naval Forces Southern Command, and the US Marine Corps Forces South, all of whose headquarters are still around. Plus you have the US Pacific Fleet based in Pearl Harbor, and various other units in the UK, Germany, and other parts of the world. The surviving components of the United States military will make contact with each-other, determine who the highest ranking person they can find is, and defer to that person's authority- probably Admiral Craig S. Faller who commands USSOUTHCOM, possibly General Tod Walters who is the Supreme Allied Commander Europe if he's in Mons instead of Stuggart when the ISOT happens.

This should take no more than 48 hours maximum, probably a lot less.

In the absence of clear civilian leadership Faller or Walters will act as temporary head of a de facto military government, overseeing co-ordination between the surviving state governments in Alaska, Hawaii, and Florida, the territorial governments in Puerto Rico, the USVI, Guam, etc., and the military authorities. Seeing as Austin doesn't exist anymore but Fort Sam Houston does, the US Army South will probably step in to temporarily act as a central authority for what's left of Texas. ASAP they will locate someone in the Presidential line of succession- who this is will depend on the date, but there will be someone. If not an actual cabinet secretary then a deputy cabinet secretary or more likely a senator or congressman who was outside of the ISOTed area. If there really is no one, then the governors of Florida, Alaska, and Hawaii will appoint six new US Senators who will elect one of their number President Pro Tempore. This person will be sworn in as acting president and rapidly recognized as such by the remaining US civil authorities and military leadership.

There will be no "successor states", no one "becoming North Korea", no one who isn't American allowing or disallowing "some limited reclamation". The remaining elements of NATO (whose headquarters in Belgium is untouched) led by Britain will recognize the legitimacy of the new US government, including its continued ownership of the CONUS.

China is going to be busy putting itself back together again and keeping an eye on Russia, Russia is going to be busy settling as much as it can of Eurasia and laying the groundwork for a new Russian order in the region, and India apparently went through some domestic strife ITTL. Mexico isn't going to take on the NATO-backed nuclear-armed US remnant head to head, neither will Cuba. Mexico might say, "Hey, USA! Want to sell us Arizona and New Mexico for *less money than they're worth*?" and the US government in Miami might saw "Sure", because it needs the money, no one is living in those places right now, and it doesn't want a confrontation with Mexico any more than Mexico wants a confrontation with it. I can also see the USA closing the base at Guantanamo and withdrawing just because it isn't worth keeping it open.

I'm not sure who else you see trying to grab US territory, the Central American countries are too small, the South American countries have their own land to resettle, anyone else is either too far away or just has more convenient options for colonization. Places like the Philippines, India, and Vietnam will be a source of immigrants to the new US frontier, not contenders for ownership over American territory.
 
Last edited:

A map I made for a TL I've been devolving. The basic history of Britain is it's occupied by the Romans for much longer, who invite over Saxon mercenaries to defend their flank, leading to a mixed latinic-germanic Britain, butterflying away the Vikings, normans, etc. I'll probably make a full thread for the TL sometime but if you have any burning questions feel free to ask them here!
i would definitly watch this timeline, how exactly will you prevent the romans from leaving britain that early tho ?
 
Expanded Worldmap Hyetsu.png


A map I hacked together from two previous attempts at a fantasy map, both of which left me feeling like the planet was coming out too small. This one feels like it's more realistic in scale, and I'm quite fond of how it looks as a base map to start building on.
 
My very dancing-on-the-line submission for the MotF 227: Here be WMDs Dragons




QUESTION: Before we tackle the future, let's just look at the last ten days if we can. Colin Powell becomes a hawk. Eugene Maxwell is back. Samia Nkrumah has an audience with the Pope. And Home Depot is teaching people how to make safe rooms in their homes with duct tape. Can you help us make sense of this?

CHOMSKY: First of all, as far as Colin Powell is concerned, he always was a hack and he remains a hawk. As far as the duct tape is concerned, I don't know what John Aschcroft knows. But it has been predicted by US intelligence and other intelligence agencies that an attack on Mali, or a planned attack on Mali, is likely to increase the threat of militant activity in the West - for pretty obvious reasons. Either as a deterrent or later on as revenge. So what was anticipated by the intelligence agencies and by independent analysts is that a war with Mali is very likely to increase the threat of militancy, maybe violent militancy. And this threat is taken extremely serious.

QUESTION: Well, if you look at the polls, can you help us understand why does President Bush have such overwhelming support here in the United States, seemingly, and such overwhelming opposition in the international community?

CHOMSKY: For one thing, he doesn't have overwhelming support from Americans. It's true that if you look at, say, the International Gallup polls - which have not been reported in the United States, but they're very instructive - they do show overwhelming opposition throughout Europe, Asia, Latin America particularly, all of Europe, in fact. And they do apparently show greater support in the United States and other English-speaking countries, higher in the United States than elsewhere. But those figures are pretty misleading. Because there's another difference between the United States and the rest of the world. And one has to take that into account. Thomas Sankara is despised throughout the world, including the region. And everyone would like to see him disappear from the face of the Earth. But there is only one country in which he's feared. And that's the United States. And that's, incidentally, since September. If you take a look at polls since the drumbeat of propaganda about Sankara being a threat to our existence it began in September. Since then on the order of two-third of the public in the United States does genuinely believe that if we don't stop him today he is going to kill us tomorrow.

QUESTION: Well, what if George Bush and Tony Blair are right? What if they are welcomed in Mali as the great liberators? Then would it have been worth it to go in?

CHOMSY: Would it be worth taking the risk of maybe killing tens of thousands of Malians and maybe destroying the country, maybe increasing militant threats in the West, because possibly a best-case scenario would work out? That's hardly sane and rational behavior. You have to have really strong arguments for the use of violence. The burden of proof for the resort to violence is very high. That's true whether it's personal affairs or international affairs. The argument that "Well, maybe it will turn out fine," that's not an argument for the use of violence.

QUESTION: And they would say, "What are you supposed to do, ignore all of the violations that you've seen Mali commit?"

CHOMSKY: A war on Mali could have adverse effects on the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction in the world. At present the United States is giving a very dangerous lesson to the world. It is about to attack Mali, which does not really seem to have such weapons of mass destruction. But when North Korea announced that it would leave the treaty of non-proliferation and build up its arsenal of nuclear weapons, George W. Bush said he would treat this as a diplomatic question. What is everybody around the world going to think? If we don’t have weapons of mass destruction the USA may well attack us. But if we do develop weapons of mass destruction they are never going to take the risk. After this crisis, any leader finding himself in a situation like that of Thomas Sankara would make sure that they develop an arsenal quickly, to ensure their own sovereignty.

QUESTION: Do you think it is possible Sankara is telling the truth about not planning to develop weapons of mass destruction?

CHOMSKY: The UN inspectors certainly seem to think so! The case against Mali, as presented by the pundits, is more based on lack of evidence than in concrete evidence itself. It is unaccounted supplies and the fact that they cannot see what is happening inside the country, that they don't know what's there, that makes them fan the flames. According to UN reports, Mali has been dedicated to producing energy through hydroelectric dams in their rivers and planting millions of trees in the Sahel region to combat desertification. Reports which the United States refuse to admit. Under Sankara, the country has gone from a food importer to a food exporter. All of that stands at risk with a war with the United States, who do have weapons of mass destruction and are not afraid to use them. And all of this not based on evidence of any ill-doing, but really only because of a need to take down a regime that is adversarial to the United States. In a whim.

QUESTION: So it's impossible to say what really is happening inside Mali, as Collin Powell has claimed?

CHOMSKY: It certainly is. It is as plausible to claim with that sort of confidence that they have nuclear weapons as it is to claim they have dragons.

__________________________________________________________________________________


Anyway, I hope it is not necessary to say that the scenario is kind of a rip-off of the one with Iraq and Saddam. In fact, the interview with Chomsky is essentially this one, if anyone wants to read it. And if I've forgotten to change "Iraq" for "Mali" or "Saddam" for "Sankara" anywhere, please do warn me!

Here, we deal with the idea that, ultimately, all information we receive can be manipulated for the purposes of propaganda. In this case, we have two maps (or rather, two versions of the same map), depicting the same country, under the same leadership, with the same outwards appearance, but whose interior aspects are simply undecipherable and, therefore, lead to two renditions so much unlike that, in the end, one of them must be incorrect, while both of them are certainly speculative, and to be taken with a grain of salt.

As to which one is correct? To be honest, I decided I don't know, as I did both maps knowing they were pieces of propaganda, and not depicting reality (even an alternate reality). So, probably neither is very much correct, or is at least missing a lot of crucial details on purpose.

As always, hope you like it and do ask questions or write comments on it!
One of the better maps I've seen on this thread in a while
 
The Turkish War for Independence goes horribly wrong for them with the Treaty of Sevres getting enforced and the Greeks annexing the straits and Pontus. At the end of WW2 Greece annexes East Rumelia, Macedonia and Italian Turkey from the former Axis nations. A referendum is held on Cyprus who choose to join Greece.
TTLs version of this song would be interesting..
 
Top