Map Thread XVIII

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At first I was honestly somewhat impressed with @LordOguzHan's maps, considering he was a new member.

However, at this point it's worn off. It's clear that, even if he's making the maps on his own (though he's clearly resizing them on his own, given the quality of the borders), he's more or less plagiarizing several different people and mapmakers. I don't think he should be banned, mainly because a language barrier seems to be at play here given his other comments, but he could probably be kicked for continuing to plagiarize others.
 
@LordOguzHan, remember how I told you to give credit to the people who created the scenario? You really need to do that, the Mods do not look kindly on plagiarism, especially when you were already warned by a mod for doing the exact same thing.

I strongly recommend editing your post to say that the scenario is from Kaiserreich before you catch the attention of a mod.
 
On one hand, I do feel for the guy; he's trying to make maps and has no ideas, so he makes maps of others scenarios. I remember how daunting it was to start, fearing that my timelines were no good compared to what others made, so I can get using loved timelines. The problem is that 1. these maps are not interesting or creative, 2. they plagiarize, and 3. he started this by spamming like 15 maps in one day
 
On one hand, I do feel for the guy; he's trying to make maps and has no ideas, so he makes maps of others scenarios. The problem is that 1. these maps are not interesting or creative, 2. they plagiarize, and 3. he started this by spamming like 15 maps in one day
I think the main problem is that there's a language barrier. His other posts show that he doesn't seem fluent in English, so he may not even realize he's doing anything wrong.
 
On one hand, I do feel for the guy; he's trying to make maps and has no ideas, so he makes maps of others scenarios. The problem is that 1. these maps are not interesting or creative, 2. they plagiarize, and 3. he started this by spamming like 15 maps in one day
Personally, I really don't care if the maps look bad or anything, that's just personal taste. But the plagiarizing needs to stop, and I'm really surprised he plagiarized after getting a warning from a mod.
 
Personally, I really don't care if the maps look bad or anything, that's just personal taste. But the plagiarizing needs to stop, and I'm really surprised he plagiarized after getting a warning from a mod.

Fair enough, I agree, it's the scenario that matters, a map is just made to express the idea. I guess I just have little patience for low effort maps as a a result of Reddit. The plagiarism is the key issue here. Does anyone speak his native language or knows enough of it to give him a clear message?
 
I think the main problem is that there's a language barrier. His other posts show that he doesn't seem fluent in English, so he may not even realize he's doing anything wrong.
I think it wouldn't hurt if AlternateHistory.com had volunteer translators. Not just people who offer their assistance every now and then when they stumble across someone who needs a translator, mind you, but a group that can be contacted from the Help and Rules forum.
 
View attachment 404963
Now just to explain it all...

Love the map:

A few thoughts/question

I expect the South African colonies in Australia and La Plata to be mostly White settlement thanks to them being placed in the temperate areas of both continents.

I also think the Finnish state may ironic be majority Swedish speaking, Sweden may in the long term focus on expanding east into the former Russia.

I also expect Saudi Arabia to just be Arabia, I would be surprised if the house of Saud have survived, love the fact that Zaidi along the south Arabian border have reestablished Yemen.

I expect the post-Dutch are listing a lot of Surinamese and South Africans in to reestablish Netherlands/Holland, the British are likely doing the same with English speaking South Africans.

One major thought wouldn't the Serbs claim Constantinoble, they're not Russians with their obsession with the city, but they're still Orthodox.
 
History of the Ottoman Empire

While the Ottoman Empire officially entered the Weltkrieg on October 29, 1914, with the arrival of Wilhelm Souchon with the Goeben and Breslau and the commencement of the shelling of Odessa under the Ottoman Flag, it had secretly pursued and attained the signature and affirmation of the Ottoman-German Alliance on August 2nd, 1914. The Ottomans won several important victories in the early years of the war, such as the Battle of Gallipoli and the Siege of Kut; but there were setbacks as well, such as the disastrous Caucasus Campaign against the Russians.

Disaster continued in 1916 with the start of the Arab Revolt by the Hashemites combined with a new British Offensive under the command of General Edmund Allenby, Ottoman Forces were under a great deal of pressure in Mesopotamia and Syria. Coming to a head in 1918 when Allenby led a joint major Cavalry offensive with his Arab Counterparts shattering more than 80% of the Ottoman Army, and effectively damning the career of Ismail Enver Pasha, the Ottoman Minister of War.

At that point, the atmosphere of the Empire was generally a defeatist one and it seemed the Ottoman War effort would inevitably collapse. However the timing of recent German Successes in Greece and the commencement of the German Great Spring Offensive on the Western Front caused the British offensive in the Middle Eastern Front to suddenly stall, the Ottoman Government used this reprieve to reorganize the remains of their forces, Enver Pasha was dismissed for "Gross Incompetence" by Talaat Pasha, the Grand Vizier, after meeting with Djemal Pasha, Minister of Marine and his counterpart in the so-called "The Three Pashas"' Triumvirate. Kâzım Karabekir was appointed Minister of War in his place, who instituted a severely needed change in the officer corps and field command, among which was the promotion of Mustafa Kamal Pasha to the rank of General and his appointment as commander of the Syrian frontier.

The continuation of German Success in the Western Front led to the recall of Edmund Allenby from the Middle Eastern Front, His successor, Sir William Marshall, launched two attacks on the Turkish defences which were barely but surely repulsed, bringing some measure of hope to the Ottoman Empire. In 1919, the Central Powers were finally able to reinforce Ottoman positions. German and Austrian reinforcements drove the British back out of Palestine and Mesopotamia through 1920. However, this gave time for the British to build a fortified line along the Suez Canal and the Central Powers spent the rest of the war beating their heads against it in vain. The Arabs also managed to reorganize their forces and cling to the Hejaz using the Desert to their advantage. Ottoman Frontiers seemed back to original pre-war boundaries.

The "Peace With Honour"
When the peace treaty was signed with the British, the so-called "Peace with Honour" which effectively ended the Weltkrieg, the Ottoman staked many claims on former territories in Africa and the Balkans. However, the generally poor performance of the Ottomans made sure that little can be asked for in compensation in terms of land, at the end the Ottomans regained Cyprus and Kuwait under direct control, while Ottoman Influence in Albania and Libya was duly recognized.

However, due to the extraordinary amount of war weariness sustained by the Ottomans and its allies a major coup against the Ottomans was gained by the Arabs when the Ottomans were forced to recognize the independence of the Kingdom of Hejaz and formalize borders with them.

While the Ottoman Government celebrated the conclusion of the Weltkrieg as a victory, calling it "a successful struggle for the Sultanate against the Imperialist and Colonial ambitions of the hostile foreigners in Paris, Petrograd and London", many wondered whether or not was the Weltkrieg a Pyrrhic victory for the Ottomans, reflecting on the large costs in manpower, equipment and infrastructure, especially in the Middle East.

Post Weltkrieg (1920-1936)
Following the end of the Weltkrieg, the Ottoman government found itself faced with many difficulties, ranging from economic shortages to political instability. A major concern also was the need to reform the Ottoman Army from scratch following its near annihilation during the Weltkrieg. Also to be noted was the decline of the power of the "Three Pasha" triumvirate with the departure/exile of Ismail Enver Pasha to Turkestan.

In 1922, faced by increasing factionalism and splintering in the CUP, Grand Vizier Talaat Pasha resigned in favor of a formation of a more stable government, most notably Said Halim Pasha was reinstated Grand Vizier, while Talaat Pasha was reappointed Minister of Interior, Mehmed Cavid Pasha as Minister of Finance, Ali Fethi Pasha as Minister of Foreign Affairs, Kâzım Karabekir was kept as Minister of War, Djemal Pasha was instated Minister of Military Intelligence, while Mahmud Mukhtar Pasha was made minister of Marine.

The New Government was a clear indication of the end of the rule of the dictatorial triumvirate, while Talaat and Djemal Pashas continued to hold great influence, it was recognized that their power bases were not as strong as they once were and early signs of other factions emerging as major players in Ottoman politics began to surface.

One of the earliest issues the new government needed to deal with was the issue of restoring Ottoman government in the Middle East, the proposed policy of reintegration was in much debate, but finally the government agreed on a gradual reintegration plan along with the formalization of Arab rights in the Empire following meeting with the local leaders, this policy drew much criticism from the more hardline members of the CUP, who continued to point out the slow progress and increasing bureaucratic and corruption problems of the program. Regardless, by 1936, many agree that Ottoman Control has been established in Iraq and much of Syria, however, there significant rebel tribal activity in the inner desert regions.

In cooperation with the German Ambassador, Germany diverted significant resources to aid their allies. German investments help minimize the severity of shortages caused by the Weltkrieg, when the Ottoman Economy began more or less to stabilize, German investment help develop Ottoman industry and infrastructure, most noteworthy of which is the Oil extraction industry in Iraq. In 1928, The Baghdad Railway was completed and efforts to extend to Basra were complete by 1932, providing modern rail infrastructure to the Middle East, specifically Iraq. This allowed a period of industrialization to undergo in Anatolia where for the first time the Ottoman Economy was in a boom.

A special commission was formed to begin the process of the reformation of the Ottoman Army, the Commission, headed by General Mustafa Kemal Pasha, noted the inefficiencies and mishaps of the Ottoman Army during the Weltkrieg, blamed on the ineffectiveness of Ismail Enver Pasha as War Minister, proceeded to instate a more effective military through the organization of Mobilization plans as well as the modernization of recruitment and training methods. The immediate need for manpower for operations in the Middle East was met by the committee, enabling crucial garrison efforts for the reintegration of the Middle East to go on as planned.

The 1930's would show a great change in the balance of political powers in the Ottoman Empire, As Talaat Pasha would die out of illness in 1930 and Djemal Pasha would retire three years later. In 1935, even the Grand Vizier, Said Halim Pasha retired as well and would soon succumb to sickness three months later, allowing a new government to be formed in 1935 with veteran Minister of Finance, Cavid Pasha as Grand Vizier.

View attachment 405084
the visual quality... it... it makes my eyes hurt.
 
anti-Nazi-Soviet alliance post ww2.png


this time with the entirety of the Istanbul Agreement (except the client/candidate nations such as Belarus, Russia, Siberia, Germany and the Benelux nations). The 4 predecessor organizations to IA was the Polish led Intermarium (Poland, the three Baltics, Finland and Czechoslovakia), the anti-Hungarian Little Entente (Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Romania), the Turkish founded Balkan Pact (Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania and Yugoslavia) and Sadabad Pact (Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq and Transjordan (for them it was not official as they were still a British mandate back then). Istanbul Agreement is collectively very influential in the World stage after they turned what could be a quick and easy footnote in a very different WW2 into the catalysis for the said war. To put it basically the existence of interconnected alliance networks turns the seizure of Sudetenland into the 2nd World War with the Axis of Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Hungary together with the Soviet Union fought against the proto-Istanbul Agreement. It started with Axis at war with the Little Entente followed shortly by the entrance of the Intermarium in the war, which was in turn answered by the Soviet invasion of Eastern Europe from the Arctic circle to the Danube. Italian Invasion of Greece and Yugoslavia followed by the Red Army entering Romania brought the Balkan Pact into the war and Turkey the Sadabad Pact. this slowed the Soviet onslaught and allowed Finland time to convince the Scandinavian nations to join the war on their side, which separated the German attention, and therefor the Wehrmacht, into pieces. After months (or maybe a year) of fighting French, at last, decided to join the war against the Axis. This situation forced Germans to invade the Low Countries in order to encircle the French armies marking the British entrance in the war. After several battles in Normandy and around Paris between the Wehrmacht and the BEF the Axis were pushed back. Northern Yugoslavia liberated by communist Partisans came to an agreement with the Kingdom of Yugoslavia and Tito became the Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. While the war raged on in Europe the Japanese who were fairly close with the Axis decided that, since Axis was not at war with any countries near them, they could invade the USSR and leave with some gains when Axis had to deal with actual threats and invade the French and British colonial possessions in East Asia. (Un)fortunately however the Axis faced actual threats before they handled the all of the little guys and the Japanese were still at war with the Soviets. This ended in the Imperial Japanese Government making the smart choice instead of stupidly self-confident choice for once and staying at war with the Soviets and not attacking the Brits and the French.
 
Now just to explain it all...

I'd expect the Saudis to both collapse more (given the cutoff of imports and crash in oil revenue) and spread out more, given their still high birth rate. And what's that big ol' hole between Somali and Sudanese successor states? Full of Somali nomads?
 
redwhiteblackandgold.png


Red and White, Black and Gold
Interwar scare literature, written by a disgruntled German Nationalist named Waldemar Pabst (incidentally the man who had Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht executed), discussed the need for the traditional powers of Europe to form a "White International" to counter the Red Communist International, focused on "authority, order, and justice." Other pamphleteers like Pabst warned of a "Black International", comprised of the threat of "political Catholicism". Others, when discussing the threat posed by Jews, warned that they were the harbingers of a "Gold International", with the backing of the Western democracies behind their influence and wealth.

This is a world where these fears and ramblings are made real. There are four Internationals dominating the World of 1932.

The Red International, which is comprised of a Soviet Union that triumphed in the Polish-Soviet War and her veritable vassal states. Empowered by this, the Soviets control a vast sphere of influence across Eurasia, including the "Socialist Republic of Iran", the Xinjiang warlord state, Mongolia, and a propped-up Chinese Communist State in Northwestern China. While lacking the ability to project its power like the other Internationals, the Red International possesses a powerful army, and is a potent threat to the Asian interests of the Gold International and the very front yard of the White International.

The White International, headed by Germany, appears weak on paper but is rapidly coming up to snuff. Founded by a Nationalist Germany, after the Wiemar government was thrown out in a putsch in the chaos following the Polish-Soviet War, has rapidly rearmed, with the somewhat reluctant blessing of the British and the Gold International. Though its members are bound more of fear of the Black and Red International than any sort of political ideology, the White International has taken aggressive action when needed- including the Fall of Red Vienna, in 1931, when the Austrian Social Democrats began to drift a bit far into the Red sphere for the jumpy German regime to stand.

The Black International, headed by France and Italy, is dominated by a sort of quasi-Fascism/Integralism. The French, paranoid of Communist influence after the fall of Poland, and angered at the German putsch and the refusal of the British government to intervene, swung far to the Right, and announced the unilateral annexation of the Saar. While this has caused the French star to fall in Western diplomatic circles, as well as giving a possible casus belli to the Germans, the French have found fast friends in Italy and Portugal. Together, the three backed the coup that overthrew the Spanish Republican government earlier in 1932 and replaced it with a State Council dominated by the Spanish military.

And finally, the Gold International. Comprised of a reinvigorated Anglo-Japanese Alliance, the Gold International stands for parliamentary democracy and a stable world order. This, of course, does not fully mix with Japan's decision to prop up a pretender to the Chinese government in Manchuria, though the British have handily looked beyond it as a way to protect the valuable industrial resources there from Red grip. Propping up the South Iranian government as well, the Gold International has vast domains across the world, but also is threatened on almost all sides.

The rest of the world remains neutral. Belgium, headed by King Albert I, is pulled by pro-White Flemish nationalists and pro-Black Walloon Rexists, though he remains more friendly to the Gold International than any of the others. The United States struggles through the Great Depression, with President-elect "Alfalfa Bill" Murray promising to solve the problem and return the nation to normalcy. He will have to worry about Red and Black International agents operating in Latin America, supporting peasant movements or Synarchists/Integralists. The natural ally would be the Gold International, but the actions of Japan in China make the American public hesitant.

China, in the meantime, remains neutral, though loyal Xibei San Ma is besieged on almost all sides. White International support is beginning to reform the Chinese military, and in time the Chinese will likely possess a powerful force and lean further into the White International camp.

The world leans further towards a precipice as spies play their games and diplomats talk in back halls. What will become of the world? What will become of a world of...

Red and White, Black and Gold?

redwhiteblackandgoldalliances.png
 
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RFOM.png

Here's the setting from the video game Resistance: Fall of Man. While the series does involve an alien invasion, it's set in an alternate history that stretches back to 1898. Changes ITTL that have been confirmed include:
  • The United States successfully pressures Spain to grant independence to Cuba, averting the Spanish-American war.
  • The Great War happens not due to Franz Ferdinand's assassination, but as a result of France and Britain invading German Togoland in August 1914.
  • Woodrow Wilson fails to get congress to join the war and isolationism remains prominent in America.
  • Michael Alexandrovich becomes Tsar in place of his brother and successfully crushes the Bolsheviks, exiling Lenin to Siberia. After the end of the war, Russia also adopts a staunch isolationist policy.
  • Following the signing of the Treaty of Versailles, the nations of Europe form the European Trade Organization to help rebuild and encourage cooperation to prevent another war. This ensures fascism is rendered a fringe ideology and World War II never happens.
  • In 1921, after 12 French spies are found in Russia, Tsar Michael declares Russia's borders and communication with the outside will be closed, leading to the construction of a massive barrier along the border with Europe, known as the Red Curtain, which is longer than the Great Wall of China.
  • Nikola Tesla successfully patents his VTOL concept, which is adopted as the standard aircraft for the U.S. military.
  • President Hoover vetoes the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, which ensures the Great Depression is only a recession.
  • Orson Welles' career is ruined by the War of the Worlds broadcast.
  • Fort Anchorage is established as the largest American military base and becomes the testing ground for the world's first atomic bomb in June 1944.
  • FDR loses the 1940 election against Montana Senator Noah Grace, a staunch isolationist. It's the narrowest victory in American history. Grace goes on to serve three terms, where he instates an anti-immigration policy and nationalizes all newspapers and radio stations. In response, the Alliance for American Autonomy is established, a group that still supports isolationism, but sees Grace's presidency as totalitarian.
 

CalBear

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History of the Ottoman Empire

While the Ottoman Empire officially entered the Weltkrieg on October 29, 1914, with the arrival of Wilhelm Souchon with the Goeben and Breslau and the commencement of the shelling of Odessa under the Ottoman Flag, it had secretly pursued and attained the signature and affirmation of the Ottoman-German Alliance on August 2nd, 1914. The Ottomans won several important victories in the early years of the war, such as the Battle of Gallipoli and the Siege of Kut; but there were setbacks as well, such as the disastrous Caucasus Campaign against the Russians.

Disaster continued in 1916 with the start of the Arab Revolt by the Hashemites combined with a new British Offensive under the command of General Edmund Allenby, Ottoman Forces were under a great deal of pressure in Mesopotamia and Syria. Coming to a head in 1918 when Allenby led a joint major Cavalry offensive with his Arab Counterparts shattering more than 80% of the Ottoman Army, and effectively damning the career of Ismail Enver Pasha, the Ottoman Minister of War.

At that point, the atmosphere of the Empire was generally a defeatist one and it seemed the Ottoman War effort would inevitably collapse. However the timing of recent German Successes in Greece and the commencement of the German Great Spring Offensive on the Western Front caused the British offensive in the Middle Eastern Front to suddenly stall, the Ottoman Government used this reprieve to reorganize the remains of their forces, Enver Pasha was dismissed for "Gross Incompetence" by Talaat Pasha, the Grand Vizier, after meeting with Djemal Pasha, Minister of Marine and his counterpart in the so-called "The Three Pashas"' Triumvirate. Kâzım Karabekir was appointed Minister of War in his place, who instituted a severely needed change in the officer corps and field command, among which was the promotion of Mustafa Kamal Pasha to the rank of General and his appointment as commander of the Syrian frontier.

The continuation of German Success in the Western Front led to the recall of Edmund Allenby from the Middle Eastern Front, His successor, Sir William Marshall, launched two attacks on the Turkish defences which were barely but surely repulsed, bringing some measure of hope to the Ottoman Empire. In 1919, the Central Powers were finally able to reinforce Ottoman positions. German and Austrian reinforcements drove the British back out of Palestine and Mesopotamia through 1920. However, this gave time for the British to build a fortified line along the Suez Canal and the Central Powers spent the rest of the war beating their heads against it in vain. The Arabs also managed to reorganize their forces and cling to the Hejaz using the Desert to their advantage. Ottoman Frontiers seemed back to original pre-war boundaries.

The "Peace With Honour"
When the peace treaty was signed with the British, the so-called "Peace with Honour" which effectively ended the Weltkrieg, the Ottoman staked many claims on former territories in Africa and the Balkans. However, the generally poor performance of the Ottomans made sure that little can be asked for in compensation in terms of land, at the end the Ottomans regained Cyprus and Kuwait under direct control, while Ottoman Influence in Albania and Libya was duly recognized.

However, due to the extraordinary amount of war weariness sustained by the Ottomans and its allies a major coup against the Ottomans was gained by the Arabs when the Ottomans were forced to recognize the independence of the Kingdom of Hejaz and formalize borders with them.

While the Ottoman Government celebrated the conclusion of the Weltkrieg as a victory, calling it "a successful struggle for the Sultanate against the Imperialist and Colonial ambitions of the hostile foreigners in Paris, Petrograd and London", many wondered whether or not was the Weltkrieg a Pyrrhic victory for the Ottomans, reflecting on the large costs in manpower, equipment and infrastructure, especially in the Middle East.

Post Weltkrieg (1920-1936)
Following the end of the Weltkrieg, the Ottoman government found itself faced with many difficulties, ranging from economic shortages to political instability. A major concern also was the need to reform the Ottoman Army from scratch following its near annihilation during the Weltkrieg. Also to be noted was the decline of the power of the "Three Pasha" triumvirate with the departure/exile of Ismail Enver Pasha to Turkestan.

In 1922, faced by increasing factionalism and splintering in the CUP, Grand Vizier Talaat Pasha resigned in favor of a formation of a more stable government, most notably Said Halim Pasha was reinstated Grand Vizier, while Talaat Pasha was reappointed Minister of Interior, Mehmed Cavid Pasha as Minister of Finance, Ali Fethi Pasha as Minister of Foreign Affairs, Kâzım Karabekir was kept as Minister of War, Djemal Pasha was instated Minister of Military Intelligence, while Mahmud Mukhtar Pasha was made minister of Marine.

The New Government was a clear indication of the end of the rule of the dictatorial triumvirate, while Talaat and Djemal Pashas continued to hold great influence, it was recognized that their power bases were not as strong as they once were and early signs of other factions emerging as major players in Ottoman politics began to surface.

One of the earliest issues the new government needed to deal with was the issue of restoring Ottoman government in the Middle East, the proposed policy of reintegration was in much debate, but finally the government agreed on a gradual reintegration plan along with the formalization of Arab rights in the Empire following meeting with the local leaders, this policy drew much criticism from the more hardline members of the CUP, who continued to point out the slow progress and increasing bureaucratic and corruption problems of the program. Regardless, by 1936, many agree that Ottoman Control has been established in Iraq and much of Syria, however, there significant rebel tribal activity in the inner desert regions.

In cooperation with the German Ambassador, Germany diverted significant resources to aid their allies. German investments help minimize the severity of shortages caused by the Weltkrieg, when the Ottoman Economy began more or less to stabilize, German investment help develop Ottoman industry and infrastructure, most noteworthy of which is the Oil extraction industry in Iraq. In 1928, The Baghdad Railway was completed and efforts to extend to Basra were complete by 1932, providing modern rail infrastructure to the Middle East, specifically Iraq. This allowed a period of industrialization to undergo in Anatolia where for the first time the Ottoman Economy was in a boom.

A special commission was formed to begin the process of the reformation of the Ottoman Army, the Commission, headed by General Mustafa Kemal Pasha, noted the inefficiencies and mishaps of the Ottoman Army during the Weltkrieg, blamed on the ineffectiveness of Ismail Enver Pasha as War Minister, proceeded to instate a more effective military through the organization of Mobilization plans as well as the modernization of recruitment and training methods. The immediate need for manpower for operations in the Middle East was met by the committee, enabling crucial garrison efforts for the reintegration of the Middle East to go on as planned.

The 1930's would show a great change in the balance of political powers in the Ottoman Empire, As Talaat Pasha would die out of illness in 1930 and Djemal Pasha would retire three years later. In 1935, even the Grand Vizier, Said Halim Pasha retired as well and would soon succumb to sickness three months later, allowing a new government to be formed in 1935 with veteran Minister of Finance, Cavid Pasha as Grand Vizier.

View attachment 405084
I see the warning and PM regarding Plagiarism did exactly no good at all.

Perhaps I need to focus your attention.

Kicked for a week.
 
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