Map Thread XVIII

Status
Not open for further replies.
@Bennett
Nice map, but I have a few questions:
Whats the difference between Acadians/Louisianans and Californios/Mexicans? Also, why are Mormons listed as a separate category? Do all Mormons identify as a separate ethnic group, or are they say represented more in the English group with a few choosing to consider themselves Mormons, say like how English-ancestry people in the US choosing to be classified as American ancestry?
 
@Bennett
Nice map, but I have a few questions:
Whats the difference between Acadians/Louisianans and Californios/Mexicans? Also, why are Mormons listed as a separate category? Do all Mormons identify as a separate ethnic group, or are they say represented more in the English group with a few choosing to consider themselves Mormons, say like how English-ancestry people in the US choosing to be classified as American ancestry?
The divisions are a mix between cultural and linguistic, so it comes down to location most of the time.
 
upload_2018-8-28_21-48-22.png

The Republic of New Albion, in 2018. The pod of this scenario is Britain securing land North of the 36th parallel in the treaty ending the Seven Years War. This large amount of land becomes a separate dominion of the British Empire, British Columbia. The precursor to this domain was a British settlement of the OTL San Francisco Bay Area by Sir Francis Drake and later people. The United States gains independence like in OTL (the POD would likely not affect the Revolution). Mexico gains independence, but at a slightly different time. The United States conquers land from the Mexican Empire. I haven't developed the exact history of this timeline, but I'm really tempted to make the history almost the same (This would be insignificant to world history). Upon independence, the populace voted by popular referendum to rename the country New Albion, after what the British Empire originally called the region. Today, New Albion is a wealthy, stable democracy with large innovative industries and a reputation for its social progressiveness. This is a sequel to a map I posted on r/imaginarymaps:
https://www.reddit.com/r/imaginarym...in_of_british_columbia_prior_to_independence/
 
Last edited:
Snip (again)
I highly value all the work you have put into the worlda's and qbams, and I apologize for not making that clear or better known! You have a lot more experience with WorldA's and QBAM's than I do, and as such, I'd love some feedback (no matter how minor or major) on the maps that I've put out so far. Even after a lot of revisions, I still am very unsatisfied with a lot of them (especially when it comes to borders outside of Europe, which are much harder to find base maps for). Thank you for all the work you've done for this site. Cheers!
 
Now just to explain it all...

Can't wait! This is one of my favorite map series.

I do like the (presumably Swiss and San Marinese-descended) France and Italy. Also the India courtesy of Saudi Arabian guest workers and the Palestine thanks to the 200,000 Palestinians in Syria. I do wonder at the autonomous territories in Portugal and I'm surprised Slovenia didn't do better.
 
lkijuh.png

1915

The Great War has begun! In a brash move, Italy has landed troops in Europe during their war against the Ottomans forcing Austria to declare war as the Balkans exploded into a massive conflagration. Smelling Ottoman blood in the water and wishing to back up the Balkan Slavs, Russia then declared war on Austria which triggered a German declaration of war against Russia and a French declaration of war against Germany. Britain is concerned about the German naval build-up, but despises Russia even more. The Alaskan crisis (1904-05), Russian annexation of Mongolia and broad swathes of China (1911-12) as well as its declaration of the Korean protectorate (1912) have fanned the flames of Russophobia to a roaring blaze. Japan is still salty about the Triple Intervention and loathes Russia after the Manchurian annexation and control of Port Arthur (the Philippines was a decent, but not great consolation prize since it turned into multi-year long guerilla war). America has declared for France and even as the opening blows are struck the AEF sails for Europe (the humiliation of France being involved in Confederate independence being long forgotten… the British intervention much less so).

The Confederacy is too tied up with domestic problems to worry about a foreign European war (recently free blacks demanding greater rights, Cuba’s place in the Confederacy, increasing Texan domination of the Confederate economy) though the industrial and agricultural orders placed by the warring nations have helped temporarily quell the issues.


Argentina and Chile stare longingly at the French client state Araucania & Patagonia while a Hapsburg Brazil tells them to cease and desist.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
1915

The Great War has begun!

I always like a different Great War, and this one looks good.


America has declared for France and even as the opening blows are struck the AEF sails for Europe (the humiliation of France being involved in Confederate independence being long forgotten… the British intervention much less so).

Question: why sail for Europe at all, if hurting Britain is the goal? Especially if it's about feeling hurt because Britain cost them so much land? If ever there was a solid reason to have a TL involve "USA conquers Canada", this is it. And in 1915, especially with Briain tied up in Europe as well, it's even a realistic premise...


Argentina and Chile stare longingly at the French client state Araucania & Patagonia while a Hapsburg Brazil tells them to cease and desist.

If Brazil is Habsburg-ruled, presumably allied to their relatives in Austria-Hungary, who are at war with France... wouldn't Brazil want Argentina and Chile to crush a French client state? It's not like Brazil has any perspective to gain it for itself.
 
I have a Turkish friend, so like, maybe they could translate something? I'm sure they'd have a better idea of what we're saying if it were in Turkish, not English

Worth a shot. If he continues in spite of this, then that's on him, I'm afraid.
He conversed in Turkish ok over in the Flag Request Thread when halting him there.
A combination of that and repeatedly warning about plagiarism should help.
 
Anyone remember this little map from a year ago?
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/attachments/upload_2017-8-29_20-54-51-png.341477/

The date is the 4th April, 1944, and for the second time in a generation, Europe is headed for war.

Ask questions, but hopefully the answers will be in the write-up when I eventually finish it. More to come. And yes, I do intent to make a TL out of this when the main map's finished. Until then, you'll just have to wait.
Why does Oldenburg's Principality of Birkenfeld (that small area west of Palantine) have the outline Saxony and Bavaria have? And does that area in northern Schleswig mean the Prussians finally obeyed the treaty that promised they would have referendums to see who wanted to stay Danish? And is Finland deliberately expanded here? Around Petsamo they only had have of that peninsula that is almost an island. Looking it up it seems you may have based the area on the modern borders of the Pechengsky District. Is that so? Is the coloring of Iceland here to show they are independent or that they are in personal union with Denmark? Is the area around Ragusa shown as being Dalmatian or under Montenegrin influence? My iPad blurs when I zoom in too close. Is Vilnius an independent state here, or is it only fully yellow because it is too small to put a grey outline on? Is Saaremaa a part of Prussia or a separate realm? Actually looking at the island probably answers some things for me, as I see it neither has the outline of the smaller German Duchies, nor the one you have for Schleswig and Alsace. What happened to the German speakers in the Lorraine part of Alsace-Lorraine? Massive population movement? How do the Valencians, or at least those from their former region, feel about Catalonia taking control? Are the colors around the islands off Tunisia the same as the mainland? Might be an optical illusion for me, with the differing shades of blue changing the brown. As Austria has Pressburg/Bratislava, what is the capital of Slovakia, and why is the Ruthenian area under them and not the Galicians? The Rusyns preferred to keep their distance? What is the Galician relatoinship to Ukraine? What is ligntest green in the Aegean? I see the same shade is in Paleste, so I assume some loyal area with a non-Turkish majority? Why is there grey on only one side of the Armenian area in the expanded Azeribajan? Is the Sudentland split into two parts in the north or kept as one? And I feel Austrian Silesia probably has a mixed enough population to get its own mini-region. Though I might be thinking of the borders and demographics that came form them snagging land from the Germans after WWI. Ahhh, and back to Azeribajan. Why does the original, Iranian one have the highest level or autonomy? Seems risky. Might be better for them to try and annex the Azeri areas Russia lost, though I suppose it might mean war with Turkey.


View attachment 404963
Now just to explain it all...
At long last, the Map of Saints. Spain give the Portuguese a homeland? And I can just imagine how pissed the Finns here are, as Suomi didn't come along for the ride. By the way, if Montenegro was still unified with Serbia would you have had them send to this world as Serbia and Montenegro, or to the Y world as Yugoslavia? I recall differing standards for the Koreas and Congos to keep things interesting. Ahhh, and did you have the Golan Heights sent along with Israel or Syria? And is the sight of Jerusalem within Palestine or Saudi Arabia here? Looks fairly close to the border, either way. And correct me if I am wrong, but is Sudan here one of the only times in your Alphabet maps where a country lost land and no one claimed it? Also, such an empty East Asia withtou South Korea.
 
View attachment 404989
1915

The Great War has begun! In a brash move, Italy has landed troops in Europe during their war against the Ottomans forcing Austria to declare war as the Balkans exploded into a massive conflagration. Smelling Ottoman blood in the water and wishing to back up the Balkan Slavs, Russia then declared war on Austria which triggered a German declaration of war against Russia and a French declaration of war against Germany. Britain is concerned about the German naval build-up, but despises Russia even more. The Alaskan crisis (1904-05), Russian annexation of Mongolia and broad swathes of China (1911-12) as well as its declaration of the Korean protectorate (1912) have fanned the flames of Russophobia to a roaring blaze. Japan is still salty about the Triple Intervention and loathes Russia after the Manchurian annexation and control of Port Arthur (the Philippines was a decent, but not great consolation prize since it turned into multi-year long guerilla war). America has declared for France and even as the opening blows are struck the AEF sails for Europe (the humiliation of France being involved in Confederate independence being long forgotten… the British intervention much less so).

The Confederacy is too tied up with domestic problems to worry about a foreign European war (recently free blacks demanding greater rights, Cuba’s place in the Confederacy, increasing Texan domination of the Confederate economy) though the industrial and agricultural orders placed by the warring nations have helped temporarily quell the issues.


Argentina and Chile stare longingly at the French client state Araucania & Patagonia while a Hapsburg Brazil tells them to cease and desist.

I like this and I hope you will turn this into a series of maps! And I think at least one country will go communist/far-left at the end of this Great War!
 
I always like a different Great War, and this one looks good.




Question: why sail for Europe at all, if hurting Britain is the goal? Especially if it's about feeling hurt because Britain cost them so much land? If ever there was a solid reason to have a TL involve "USA conquers Canada", this is it. And in 1915, especially with Briain tied up in Europe as well, it's even a realistic premise...




If Brazil is Habsburg-ruled, presumably allied to their relatives in Austria-Hungary, who are at war with France... wouldn't Brazil want Argentina and Chile to crush a French client state? It's not like Brazil has any perspective to gain it for itself.

Britain actually hasn't declared war on anyone yet, she just isn't fond of either side. She likes the French but hates the Russians. This Russia hasn't been knocked down a peg by Japan and recently annexed an area the size of western Europe, which caused the British to move into Tibet in order to safeguard India from the perceived threat. America desperately wanted a European ally after the conflict and since France mostly left North America after 1871 and never got as close with Britain (because of Russia) the two kind of became friends. Germany also hasn't been quite as bellicose in this TL and done a slightly better job of not being a bull in a China shop because Italy has been pretty openly hostile to Austria longer.

Germany may have built a world class navy, but she hasn't invaded Belgium yet because like Britain she's a lot more worried about Russia. Maybe Russia is a paper tiger, but Germany is about to find out.

Brazil is one of those strange pieces of history that can't find a home. The Hapsburgs there were originally maneuvered there by Maximilian of Mexico. Max ended up shrugging off the French influence after France got thumped by Prussia but Brazil has been closer to France since (but not outright allied).
 
united_confederation_of_europe___1990_by_dsfisher-dclgyc5.png
Not too realistic, I just wanted to do a map of a federalized Europe and decided that a POD of the United Kingdom not joining the EU would give me the borders and scenario I wanted. In this timeline, the European Union remains fairly small, with only two new members after its formation; Austria and Finland, who both joined out of fear of the iron curtain. To curtail this new nation before it formed, the United Kingdom formed it's own economic union; the West European Economic Union, with it's founding members being the United Kingdom, Denmark, Ireland, Norway and Portugal. Outside of Europe, the British empire is slightly larger as they keep a lot of colonies that are near to the UCE [those of British Guyana, the British Leeward Islands, Malta, and a few islands in the pacific].

After the collapse of the Soviet Union and fall of the iron curtain, the UCE will almost immediately admit East Germany into the Confederation, either as an addition to Germany, or its own state. Post Soviet countries such as Lithuania and the Baltic nations might also be likely to apply for membership into the UCE, likely first as observers and maybe later as a part of the union. In turn we likely would see the West European Economic Union try to increase it's membership to compete, perhaps in the Balkans.

I was originally going to set the map in modern 2018, but I liked the idea of setting it in 1990 better. Since this map was a one shot timeline [I might do a sequel if there is interest] I decided to experiment a lot, and it shows. Even though this is stylistically different from any map I've made so far, I'm extremely happy with how it turned out. A larger version of this map can be found here, and as usual, any feedback is greatly appreciated!
 
Not too realistic, I just wanted to do a map of a federalized Europe and decided that a POD of the United Kingdom not joining the EU would give me the borders and scenario I wanted. In this timeline, the European Union remains fairly small, with only two new members after its formation; Austria and Finland, who both joined out of fear of the iron curtain. To curtail this new nation before it formed, the United Kingdom formed it's own economic union; the West European Economic Union, with it's founding members being the United Kingdom, Denmark, Ireland, Norway and Portugal. Outside of Europe, the British empire is slightly larger as they keep a lot of colonies that are near to the UCE [those of British Guyana, the British Leeward Islands, Malta, and a few islands in the pacific].

After the collapse of the Soviet Union and fall of the iron curtain, the UCE will almost immediately admit East Germany into the Confederation, either as an addition to Germany, or its own state. Post Soviet countries such as Lithuania and the Baltic nations might also be likely to apply for membership into the UCE, likely first as observers and maybe later as a part of the union. In turn we likely would see the West European Economic Union try to increase it's membership to compete, perhaps in the Balkans.

I was originally going to set the map in modern 2018, but I liked the idea of setting it in 1990 better. Since this map was a one shot timeline [I might do a sequel if there is interest] I decided to experiment a lot, and it shows. Even though this is stylistically different from any map I've made so far, I'm extremely happy with how it turned out. A larger version of this map can be found here, and as usual, any feedback is greatly appreciated!

East Germany likely reunites with West Germany. There is nothing really to stop reunification. (East Germany a purely political and artificial state, not base in any cultural, or historical background. The general idea of a one Germany was never removed, and the idea of reunited Germany was always a very popular idea. )

But I do like this idea. A federalized Europe, and bonus points if they stop the worst of the Balkans Wars.

What of the USA? How are they affected by this Europe?
 
What of the USA? How are they affected by this Europe?

They likely don't take as large a superpower role in the cold war. The anti-communist side wouldn't be USA and friends versus the Soviet Union, It would be the US and the UCE. We likely would therefore see less of this idea of American exceptionalism. There likely isn't a NATO per say, but a different American lead alliance might form, similar to the one made by the British. Perhaps a North American Union or a West Union [after the western hemisphere]. As for purely territorial matters, the US might keep a hold of their trust territory as one or multiple separate territories.
 

LordOguzHan

Banned
Kick
History of the Ottoman Empire

While the Ottoman Empire officially entered the Weltkrieg on October 29, 1914, with the arrival of Wilhelm Souchon with the Goeben and Breslau and the commencement of the shelling of Odessa under the Ottoman Flag, it had secretly pursued and attained the signature and affirmation of the Ottoman-German Alliance on August 2nd, 1914. The Ottomans won several important victories in the early years of the war, such as the Battle of Gallipoli and the Siege of Kut; but there were setbacks as well, such as the disastrous Caucasus Campaign against the Russians.

Disaster continued in 1916 with the start of the Arab Revolt by the Hashemites combined with a new British Offensive under the command of General Edmund Allenby, Ottoman Forces were under a great deal of pressure in Mesopotamia and Syria. Coming to a head in 1918 when Allenby led a joint major Cavalry offensive with his Arab Counterparts shattering more than 80% of the Ottoman Army, and effectively damning the career of Ismail Enver Pasha, the Ottoman Minister of War.

At that point, the atmosphere of the Empire was generally a defeatist one and it seemed the Ottoman War effort would inevitably collapse. However the timing of recent German Successes in Greece and the commencement of the German Great Spring Offensive on the Western Front caused the British offensive in the Middle Eastern Front to suddenly stall, the Ottoman Government used this reprieve to reorganize the remains of their forces, Enver Pasha was dismissed for "Gross Incompetence" by Talaat Pasha, the Grand Vizier, after meeting with Djemal Pasha, Minister of Marine and his counterpart in the so-called "The Three Pashas"' Triumvirate. Kâzım Karabekir was appointed Minister of War in his place, who instituted a severely needed change in the officer corps and field command, among which was the promotion of Mustafa Kamal Pasha to the rank of General and his appointment as commander of the Syrian frontier.

The continuation of German Success in the Western Front led to the recall of Edmund Allenby from the Middle Eastern Front, His successor, Sir William Marshall, launched two attacks on the Turkish defences which were barely but surely repulsed, bringing some measure of hope to the Ottoman Empire. In 1919, the Central Powers were finally able to reinforce Ottoman positions. German and Austrian reinforcements drove the British back out of Palestine and Mesopotamia through 1920. However, this gave time for the British to build a fortified line along the Suez Canal and the Central Powers spent the rest of the war beating their heads against it in vain. The Arabs also managed to reorganize their forces and cling to the Hejaz using the Desert to their advantage. Ottoman Frontiers seemed back to original pre-war boundaries.

The "Peace With Honour"
When the peace treaty was signed with the British, the so-called "Peace with Honour" which effectively ended the Weltkrieg, the Ottoman staked many claims on former territories in Africa and the Balkans. However, the generally poor performance of the Ottomans made sure that little can be asked for in compensation in terms of land, at the end the Ottomans regained Cyprus and Kuwait under direct control, while Ottoman Influence in Albania and Libya was duly recognized.

However, due to the extraordinary amount of war weariness sustained by the Ottomans and its allies a major coup against the Ottomans was gained by the Arabs when the Ottomans were forced to recognize the independence of the Kingdom of Hejaz and formalize borders with them.

While the Ottoman Government celebrated the conclusion of the Weltkrieg as a victory, calling it "a successful struggle for the Sultanate against the Imperialist and Colonial ambitions of the hostile foreigners in Paris, Petrograd and London", many wondered whether or not was the Weltkrieg a Pyrrhic victory for the Ottomans, reflecting on the large costs in manpower, equipment and infrastructure, especially in the Middle East.

Post Weltkrieg (1920-1936)
Following the end of the Weltkrieg, the Ottoman government found itself faced with many difficulties, ranging from economic shortages to political instability. A major concern also was the need to reform the Ottoman Army from scratch following its near annihilation during the Weltkrieg. Also to be noted was the decline of the power of the "Three Pasha" triumvirate with the departure/exile of Ismail Enver Pasha to Turkestan.

In 1922, faced by increasing factionalism and splintering in the CUP, Grand Vizier Talaat Pasha resigned in favor of a formation of a more stable government, most notably Said Halim Pasha was reinstated Grand Vizier, while Talaat Pasha was reappointed Minister of Interior, Mehmed Cavid Pasha as Minister of Finance, Ali Fethi Pasha as Minister of Foreign Affairs, Kâzım Karabekir was kept as Minister of War, Djemal Pasha was instated Minister of Military Intelligence, while Mahmud Mukhtar Pasha was made minister of Marine.

The New Government was a clear indication of the end of the rule of the dictatorial triumvirate, while Talaat and Djemal Pashas continued to hold great influence, it was recognized that their power bases were not as strong as they once were and early signs of other factions emerging as major players in Ottoman politics began to surface.

One of the earliest issues the new government needed to deal with was the issue of restoring Ottoman government in the Middle East, the proposed policy of reintegration was in much debate, but finally the government agreed on a gradual reintegration plan along with the formalization of Arab rights in the Empire following meeting with the local leaders, this policy drew much criticism from the more hardline members of the CUP, who continued to point out the slow progress and increasing bureaucratic and corruption problems of the program. Regardless, by 1936, many agree that Ottoman Control has been established in Iraq and much of Syria, however, there significant rebel tribal activity in the inner desert regions.

In cooperation with the German Ambassador, Germany diverted significant resources to aid their allies. German investments help minimize the severity of shortages caused by the Weltkrieg, when the Ottoman Economy began more or less to stabilize, German investment help develop Ottoman industry and infrastructure, most noteworthy of which is the Oil extraction industry in Iraq. In 1928, The Baghdad Railway was completed and efforts to extend to Basra were complete by 1932, providing modern rail infrastructure to the Middle East, specifically Iraq. This allowed a period of industrialization to undergo in Anatolia where for the first time the Ottoman Economy was in a boom.

A special commission was formed to begin the process of the reformation of the Ottoman Army, the Commission, headed by General Mustafa Kemal Pasha, noted the inefficiencies and mishaps of the Ottoman Army during the Weltkrieg, blamed on the ineffectiveness of Ismail Enver Pasha as War Minister, proceeded to instate a more effective military through the organization of Mobilization plans as well as the modernization of recruitment and training methods. The immediate need for manpower for operations in the Middle East was met by the committee, enabling crucial garrison efforts for the reintegration of the Middle East to go on as planned.

The 1930's would show a great change in the balance of political powers in the Ottoman Empire, As Talaat Pasha would die out of illness in 1930 and Djemal Pasha would retire three years later. In 1935, even the Grand Vizier, Said Halim Pasha retired as well and would soon succumb to sickness three months later, allowing a new government to be formed in 1935 with veteran Minister of Finance, Cavid Pasha as Grand Vizier.

the_ottoman_empire__by_lordoguzhan-dclhru7.png
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top