Deleted member 108228
Well I went into detail on how the extermination would be achieved. It's my first Nazi map, and I was just cautious
Map Thread XVIII
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Well I went into detail on how the extermination would be achieved. It's my first Nazi map, and I was just cautious
Well, in that case, don't worry about it. You don't get kicked for posting the most common scenario on the site.
If you get kicked for saying it’s good, that’d be something other than the map doing it.
Yeah, if you get kicked for saying Nazis are good that would be different from posting a Nazi victory map.
If you get kicked for saying, "Hey, that Nazi victory scenario is a pretty great scenario that I wish existed in real life," that would also be different from posting a Nazi victory map.
People get kicked for being racist. They get banned for being Nazis. Nobody has ever been punished for posting an alternate history map in a thread dedicated to alternate history maps. That'd be stupid.
I apologise if I came across as abrasive or unwelcoming; I'm naturally sarcastic. Like I said, it was a very good map, and a great addition to the site - I just don't like the idea of new(er) members being "afraid" of punishment when they haven't broken the rules, or people encouraging this "fear" because they might disagree with mod actions.
damein fisher
Banned
Yea, a lot of people here disagree with the way the mods handle the sites, but they absolutely overplay it.
2 weeks in the working, killer of free time, harbinger of sleeping at 2 in the morning, I am proud to show you canon (woohoo!) China in the world of TL-172 Dacia, which @HowAboutThisForAName has invited me to join in development. So again, thanks to *cough* Issac for the invitation, and hope everyone enjoys the scenario.
Languages of the First Interregnum
HIGH CHINESE: the most prestigious of the dialects, it is based upon the old imperial capital of Chang'an before the interregnum. Rather counterintuitively though, it has been significantly Turkified, serving even as the official language of the Xianbei-led Wei Empire (386-720). High Chinese's use spread along the Silk Road through an advanced trade network, with outposts of Chinese settlers across Shendu and Fuluo. It is afforded, within and without China, a large degree of respect comparable to the use of Latin in Europe.
MANDARIN: As the name implies, Mandarin is the language of governance in the Liang Empire. "Untainted" by Turkic influence, one might do well to know a word or two before joining the bureaucracy--the mandarinate if you will--or hope to achieve much in the Chinese Gentry. It serves as the Lingua Franca of much of China.
LINGNAM: Also known as Low Chinese, the language is again counterintuitively the closest you could get to "authentic" Chinese as you could find it before the First Interregnum. Created by refugees from the North fleeing the Zheng-Xianbei Wars (620-660) and the collapse of Northern productivity, the language remained tonally similar to Pre-Interregnum Chinese. Speakers are however looked down upon for being crypto-barbarians.
HUAIBEI: As the language of governance in the Northeast, it has been adopted and Turkified by successive Turkic invaders from the Wei Empire to the Hala Xitha. The language has seen increasing use in the Hala Xitha, where while adoption of a Chinese bureaucracy is still off the cards, the nobility seeks to use a "neutral language" to communicate with their Mohe (Jurchen) and Balhae vassals.
History remembers the long, painful decline of the Han Dynasty as a complete tableflip in the geopolitics of East Asia. The warlord Dong Zhuo had deposed the defacto rulers of the time, the eunuchs. In the wake of Dong Zhuo's centralizing reforms, China's provincial governors the Chishi banded together in a united front to "purge the corrupt" from his most holy majesty's side.
The time that followed saw China descend into a free for all between governors, with the warlords Sun Quan, Liu Bei and Cao Cao most famously setting the stage of the Three Kingdoms Period in 220CE. The Three Kingdoms of Wei, Shu and Wu battled for dominance of China for a century and some, until they all fell under the domination of a fourth power: the Jin. The Jin were ruled by the Sima Clan, a long line of scholar-bureaucrats who had risen to military prominence, finally able to depose the ruling Cao clan and united China in an impressive show of arms.
As the first united Chinese empire in a century, such an accomplishment was lauded as the coming of the new era, where China would grow ever stronger.
They were wrong. Instead, China now faced the threat of incoming Turkic invaders, whom had grown immensely in number beyond China's borders, now threatening to storm South. The Emperors of the new'y founded Jin Dynasty did their best to hold ontp power, but armies cannot halt the tides of history. The Jin Dynasty was swept South, her last loyal generals accompanying their Emperor as they crossed the gushing tides of the Yangtze to China's Southern frontier.
In two catastrophic ordeals, China's population plummetted. Agricultural, economic and political collapse cut China's population by an eighth, leaving a meagre 8,000,000 souls down from 65,000,000 in the last days of the Han Dynasty.
Turkic invaders setup shop in Northern China, were they formed minor polities. Eventually, the greatest Turkic warlord of the time, Fu Jian united the squabb'ing tribes under the banner of the Qin Empire, adopting Chinese language, culture and most crucially, bureaucracy. Emperor Fu Jian wished to crush the last remnants of the Jin Dynasty, a campaign that he foresaw as exceedingly simple given the age old opinion that the Chinese South was a desolate, empty land.
Fu Jian's armies were crushed by the armies of the Jin Dynasty at the Battle of Fei Shui. Historians debate over why such a superior force found itself so humiliated, but what we do know is that the battle would forever split China into North and South. The Jin armies reclaimed much of Northern China, but were unable to complete their conquests with Emperors fearing that their generals would accumulate too much powers leading armies abroad.
It was unfortunately, not to be. Under a man by the name of Hou Jing, who was in the employ of the Liang Emperor in Southern China, the peace between North and Southern China was shattered. Hou was a distinguished general who thought of himself so highly that he sought the hand of one of the most eligable bachelorettes in the land. The Emperor was greatly angered at this open breach of social decency--which mandated marriage between noble and commoner be disallowed--amd ordered Hou Jing abandon his attempts at courtship.
The angered Hou Jing led his army in revolt, ruining much of the Liang Empire's heartland between the Huai and Yangtze Rivers. Upon victory, Hou Jing founded the Zheng Empire in the Huai River Basin. After that, Hou turned his eyes North at the Turkic Wei Empire, ruining its infrastructure and laying waste to decades of ultura' progress. Recoiling in fear, attempts at scinicization were rolled back by rulers of the Wei Empire, and Hou Jing's ĝreat atrocities in his conquests left him remembered as one of the greatest tyrants of history.
In 580 CE, Hou Jing passed away. In his wake, many point to him as the one who killed Chinese civilization's best chance for a cultural reunification between North and South. And if such accusations are true, Hou Jing's mark in history remains even today.
Map 3: Rise of the Hala Xotha (700 CE)
Upon the desolate steppe, numeous steppe empires fought for dominance, occcäsionly rising to such prominence they could crush their agricultural neighbours with ease. One pf these empires were the Hala Xotha.
Descended from the same Turkic tribes that had invaded China a century ago, the Xotha now saw an opportunity. Hou Jing's rebellion had left a power vacuum in vast tracts of Northern China, practically inviting invasion. Their ruler, Yelu Tashi crossed the long abandoned Great Wall of China and stormed Southwards. The chancellor of Hou Jing's Zheng Empire, Sima Shu began camping of resistance against the Xotha, to now avail. The Zheng Empire would eventually collapse under duress, leaving behind it a number of Chinese statelets.
The newest empire in the South, the Chen Empire partitioned the fallen Zheng Empire with the ascendant Xotha. In this moment, the final divorce of North and Southern China was put to the pen. A settlement was reached, which cut a cultural border along the Yellow River. To the North was the Turkified Northern China, composed mostly of Turkic speaking steppe empires who would expand East across the Inner Eurasian Steppe deep into Korea. Despite their status as a subjugated people, the North Chinese were deeply Confucianist and militaristic, looking down upon commerce and finding Southerners weak and ineffectual.
To the South of the Yellow River was South Chinese civilization. Characterizing itself as a civilization of fortress builders, the South Chinese had adopted Buddhism, abandoning Confucian thought. They embraced mercentalism and devoted themselves to stability and economic prosperity. In fact, South China's economic strength was so great that Southern coins were found all the way from Bengal to Japan. They looked down at Northerners as barbarians and crypto-foreigners.
It would be a good time now to address the internal rivalries of China South of the Yellow River. Where Northern society was generally fairly rigid: a Turkic tribal leader at the top who came to extract tribute from a Chinese peasantry under a feudalistic system; Southern society was infinitely more complex.
Together with the Jin Emperor and his harem, the gentry of the Jin Empire accompanied the Jin nobility in the first Turkic invasions 5 centuries ago. Since then, the nobility and the gentry had been at each other's throats. The gentry composed the officials of the Chinese Empire: from lowly bureaucrats and pencil pushers to the highest office in the land: the chancellor. The question here was simple: was the bureaucracy a tool of the emperor tp govern the state; or was the bureaucracy the defining feature pf the Chinese state and pf Confucian civilization?
The gentry, obviously, wanted to secure power under the chancellor. The chancellor was seen as the voice of Confucian society, a cornerstone of what made China China. The nobility wished to centralize power under the imperial throne and the relatives of the Emperor. More radical nobles even called to ban gentrymen from military affairs. They argued that the gentry was a means to an end: the necessary tool that had been forged to govern the vast nation that was China. A strong Emperor was needed to balance the two forces and keep China from spiraling into civil war between the bureaucracy and nobility.
Eventually, tjis conflict spread to other parts of Chinese society. The weakening of the imperial throne through an unlucky line of boy-emperors left the Chinese nobility able to directly influence imperial policy. Under the Chen Dynasty, the 14 Princes System was established where the role of regent was cycled between 14 noblemen granted fiefdoms across China. The gentry was angered, winning over the rage of Confucian elements across China. In response, the Buddhists rallied to the flag of the nobility.
The battle lines of factionalism were drawn and erased, then redrawn and re-erased. Along decades of internal conflict, Chinese politics fell into utter chaos. It was however in 820 CE where the Prince of Ning, a prominent noblemen seized the chancellory and declared himself both regent and chancellor--the undisputed highest authority of the land who united nobility and bureaucracy.
If one was to say Confucian civilization in Northern China died to Turkic war cries; the it can be said that Vedic civilization vanquished Confucian civilization in the wake of thunderous applause.
A new age was upon China, a new age of sails, of merchants, of wealth.
A Brief History of the First Interregnum Period
第一次諸侯時代--The First Interregum Period 220AD-620AD refers to the 4-century long period of dissolution from the onset of the Three Kingdoms in 220 AD to the emergence of the Ning Princedom and the consolidation of the 14 Princes System. It was characterized by population decline, frequent invasions, large scale migrations and short lived dynasties in both North and Southern China. Located in a period of global cooling, agricultural productivity plummeted, rendering this period one of the lowest points in Chinese history where the very concept of the nation was threatened at times.
第一次諸侯時代--The First Interregum Period 220AD-620AD refers to the 4-century long period of dissolution from the onset of the Three Kingdoms in 220 AD to the emergence of the Ning Princedom and the consolidation of the 14 Princes System. It was characterized by population decline, frequent invasions, large scale migrations and short lived dynasties in both North and Southern China. Located in a period of global cooling, agricultural productivity plummeted, rendering this period one of the lowest points in Chinese history where the very concept of the nation was threatened at times.
As the "bane of history students", the First Interregnum Period saw the complete restructuring of East Asia. Where there once stood China, uncontested superpower of the East, there now stood a myriad feuding kingdoms. Where Confucianism once stood posed to bring her mission of civilizing the world to all of East Asia, Buddhism now stood dominant.
The first 4 maps in the above depict China along 4 key, pivotal moments of her history. They are coloured according to the CIV colour key, which splits countries along the lines of Vedic (Buddhist), Sinic and Altaic civilizations. Cultures shift along their existence, with Chinese adopting Buddhism and her traditions; Turks adopting the Confucian bureaucracy; Buddhist receiving word of Tengri's blessings.
The 5th map depicts the dialect and cultural groups of China. The idea of China one and indivisible has taken a severe beating with 6 centuries of division, giving rise to strong regional identities much like the polities of the post Röman Mediterranean and the rise of the Slavs. It is coloured according to the CUL/LANG colour key.
The first 4 maps in the above depict China along 4 key, pivotal moments of her history. They are coloured according to the CIV colour key, which splits countries along the lines of Vedic (Buddhist), Sinic and Altaic civilizations. Cultures shift along their existence, with Chinese adopting Buddhism and her traditions; Turks adopting the Confucian bureaucracy; Buddhist receiving word of Tengri's blessings.
The 5th map depicts the dialect and cultural groups of China. The idea of China one and indivisible has taken a severe beating with 6 centuries of division, giving rise to strong regional identities much like the polities of the post Röman Mediterranean and the rise of the Slavs. It is coloured according to the CUL/LANG colour key.
Languages of the First Interregnum
HIGH CHINESE: the most prestigious of the dialects, it is based upon the old imperial capital of Chang'an before the interregnum. Rather counterintuitively though, it has been significantly Turkified, serving even as the official language of the Xianbei-led Wei Empire (386-720). High Chinese's use spread along the Silk Road through an advanced trade network, with outposts of Chinese settlers across Shendu and Fuluo. It is afforded, within and without China, a large degree of respect comparable to the use of Latin in Europe.
MANDARIN: As the name implies, Mandarin is the language of governance in the Liang Empire. "Untainted" by Turkic influence, one might do well to know a word or two before joining the bureaucracy--the mandarinate if you will--or hope to achieve much in the Chinese Gentry. It serves as the Lingua Franca of much of China.
LINGNAM: Also known as Low Chinese, the language is again counterintuitively the closest you could get to "authentic" Chinese as you could find it before the First Interregnum. Created by refugees from the North fleeing the Zheng-Xianbei Wars (620-660) and the collapse of Northern productivity, the language remained tonally similar to Pre-Interregnum Chinese. Speakers are however looked down upon for being crypto-barbarians.
HUAIBEI: As the language of governance in the Northeast, it has been adopted and Turkified by successive Turkic invaders from the Wei Empire to the Hala Xitha. The language has seen increasing use in the Hala Xitha, where while adoption of a Chinese bureaucracy is still off the cards, the nobility seeks to use a "neutral language" to communicate with their Mohe (Jurchen) and Balhae vassals.
Map 1: The Battle of Fei Shui (383 CE)
"It is a truth long recognized, that an empire long divided must unite, and an empire long united is simply a historical fluke. Disorder is the the natural order things."
History remembers the long, painful decline of the Han Dynasty as a complete tableflip in the geopolitics of East Asia. The warlord Dong Zhuo had deposed the defacto rulers of the time, the eunuchs. In the wake of Dong Zhuo's centralizing reforms, China's provincial governors the Chishi banded together in a united front to "purge the corrupt" from his most holy majesty's side.
The time that followed saw China descend into a free for all between governors, with the warlords Sun Quan, Liu Bei and Cao Cao most famously setting the stage of the Three Kingdoms Period in 220CE. The Three Kingdoms of Wei, Shu and Wu battled for dominance of China for a century and some, until they all fell under the domination of a fourth power: the Jin. The Jin were ruled by the Sima Clan, a long line of scholar-bureaucrats who had risen to military prominence, finally able to depose the ruling Cao clan and united China in an impressive show of arms.
As the first united Chinese empire in a century, such an accomplishment was lauded as the coming of the new era, where China would grow ever stronger.
They were wrong. Instead, China now faced the threat of incoming Turkic invaders, whom had grown immensely in number beyond China's borders, now threatening to storm South. The Emperors of the new'y founded Jin Dynasty did their best to hold ontp power, but armies cannot halt the tides of history. The Jin Dynasty was swept South, her last loyal generals accompanying their Emperor as they crossed the gushing tides of the Yangtze to China's Southern frontier.
In two catastrophic ordeals, China's population plummetted. Agricultural, economic and political collapse cut China's population by an eighth, leaving a meagre 8,000,000 souls down from 65,000,000 in the last days of the Han Dynasty.
Turkic invaders setup shop in Northern China, were they formed minor polities. Eventually, the greatest Turkic warlord of the time, Fu Jian united the squabb'ing tribes under the banner of the Qin Empire, adopting Chinese language, culture and most crucially, bureaucracy. Emperor Fu Jian wished to crush the last remnants of the Jin Dynasty, a campaign that he foresaw as exceedingly simple given the age old opinion that the Chinese South was a desolate, empty land.
Fu Jian's armies were crushed by the armies of the Jin Dynasty at the Battle of Fei Shui. Historians debate over why such a superior force found itself so humiliated, but what we do know is that the battle would forever split China into North and South. The Jin armies reclaimed much of Northern China, but were unable to complete their conquests with Emperors fearing that their generals would accumulate too much powers leading armies abroad.
Map 2: The Rise of Hou Jing (580 CE)
“Hou Jing was a short man. When one looked at him, plated in full armour upon his stead—whom he had lovingly named Chitu, one was hard pressed to not consider giving him an ass instead. He limped as he walked, hence, he would stay upon his treasured Chitu; or ride a chariot whenever possible, fearing that his ruined leg would be treated as an object of disgrace. He was concealed, talking only to his aides and 高祖武皇帝the Ancestoral Emperor “the militant”, and when he did he spoke softly always, careful to pronounce each word with a false Wu accent. He never invited his friends—what few he had—to his residence in the walled city, preferring instead to spend time with his 8,000 men. When he did speak, he expected all to heed his words. And so it came to pass that his majesty Hou Jing asked for the hand of a maiden from the noble House of Tse, which the Ancestoral Emperor condemned with righteous fury…”
—The Book of Liang, commissioned by 德祖哀皇帝Emperor Virtuous “the mourned”
The 6th Century was a golden opportunity for China to reunify. Known as the last hurrah of Sinitic culture, this age saw Turkic regimes and Chinese regimes alike make new cultural advancements. After the Qin and Jin Empires were but the subjcets of history books, China remained divided between North and South. Yet in this period of division, a tenuous peace reigned. Poetry, literature blossomed like never before,and reconstruction seemed to begin. The populace was ready for reunification, for an unofficial peace to finally become a new era of Pax Sinica.—The Book of Liang, commissioned by 德祖哀皇帝Emperor Virtuous “the mourned”
It was unfortunately, not to be. Under a man by the name of Hou Jing, who was in the employ of the Liang Emperor in Southern China, the peace between North and Southern China was shattered. Hou was a distinguished general who thought of himself so highly that he sought the hand of one of the most eligable bachelorettes in the land. The Emperor was greatly angered at this open breach of social decency--which mandated marriage between noble and commoner be disallowed--amd ordered Hou Jing abandon his attempts at courtship.
The angered Hou Jing led his army in revolt, ruining much of the Liang Empire's heartland between the Huai and Yangtze Rivers. Upon victory, Hou Jing founded the Zheng Empire in the Huai River Basin. After that, Hou turned his eyes North at the Turkic Wei Empire, ruining its infrastructure and laying waste to decades of ultura' progress. Recoiling in fear, attempts at scinicization were rolled back by rulers of the Wei Empire, and Hou Jing's ĝreat atrocities in his conquests left him remembered as one of the greatest tyrants of history.
In 580 CE, Hou Jing passed away. In his wake, many point to him as the one who killed Chinese civilization's best chance for a cultural reunification between North and South. And if such accusations are true, Hou Jing's mark in history remains even today.
Map 3: Rise of the Hala Xotha (700 CE)
“先帝,高祖尊皇帝The old Ancestral Emperor the venerated (Hou Jing) was an inspiring man. Carrying with him an august and most dignified presence, all fell silent as he entered a room. Eternally humble and just, he respected his elders, his friends and his Emperor. For his justice, he was rewarded with a high position in the armies of the Great Liang. As he advanced through the ranks, the Houses of Wang and Tse saw him a rival, for they loathed the advancement of the virtuous and the willing lest their positions be threatened. When the Ancestoral Emperor sought to defuse the tension by asking for the hand of one young Tse maiden, he found himself slapped down by the domineering Emperor of the Liang, whom he had served with such diligence. And so, his majesty raised his banners in revolt, swearing to conquer all those who were unjust in the name of restoring dignity to all-under-heaven. With his 8000 men, the Ancestoral Emperor beat back the unjust hordes, yet died before uniting the realm.
All under heaven was split between 4 powers, with but our realm true and faithful to the ideals of Confucius and Mencius. It falls to me, appointed Chancellor by the Ancestoral Emperor now to continue his great campaigns in the name of your majesty, 高宗the Majestical Emperor.” —Call for Campaign against the Tartar, Sima Shu, Chancellor of Zheng
Upon the desolate steppe, numeous steppe empires fought for dominance, occcäsionly rising to such prominence they could crush their agricultural neighbours with ease. One pf these empires were the Hala Xotha.
Descended from the same Turkic tribes that had invaded China a century ago, the Xotha now saw an opportunity. Hou Jing's rebellion had left a power vacuum in vast tracts of Northern China, practically inviting invasion. Their ruler, Yelu Tashi crossed the long abandoned Great Wall of China and stormed Southwards. The chancellor of Hou Jing's Zheng Empire, Sima Shu began camping of resistance against the Xotha, to now avail. The Zheng Empire would eventually collapse under duress, leaving behind it a number of Chinese statelets.
The newest empire in the South, the Chen Empire partitioned the fallen Zheng Empire with the ascendant Xotha. In this moment, the final divorce of North and Southern China was put to the pen. A settlement was reached, which cut a cultural border along the Yellow River. To the North was the Turkified Northern China, composed mostly of Turkic speaking steppe empires who would expand East across the Inner Eurasian Steppe deep into Korea. Despite their status as a subjugated people, the North Chinese were deeply Confucianist and militaristic, looking down upon commerce and finding Southerners weak and ineffectual.
To the South of the Yellow River was South Chinese civilization. Characterizing itself as a civilization of fortress builders, the South Chinese had adopted Buddhism, abandoning Confucian thought. They embraced mercentalism and devoted themselves to stability and economic prosperity. In fact, South China's economic strength was so great that Southern coins were found all the way from Bengal to Japan. They looked down at Northerners as barbarians and crypto-foreigners.
Map 4: Rise of the 14 Princes
"In 元年八月August of the Year of the Emperor's Ascension, the 太祖純皇帝 Noble Ancestoral Emperor the "pure" made his decleration to cleanse the Imperial Court of traitors. On the banks of the Yangtze, his majesty fell to his knees, blessing the God of death Yama and the 天地神佛 Buddhas and Saints of the world, where he bathed in the waters of the river, and the currents of the Yangtze flowed uncorruptted, showing his majesty's purity of intent.
The Emperor led the forces loyal to the imperial throne and the most noble regency to destroy the forces of corruption in the bureaucracy. In the face of unjust accusation by the vile forces of reaction across all under heaven, his Majesty stood firm and tall, arriving in the capital within a week's march and liberating the 少帝 young Emperor from the grip of evil and corruption."
--«陳書•'太祖清君側'» 'The Noble Ancestoral Emperor eradicates evil from the imperial court', an extract from The Book of Chen
The Emperor led the forces loyal to the imperial throne and the most noble regency to destroy the forces of corruption in the bureaucracy. In the face of unjust accusation by the vile forces of reaction across all under heaven, his Majesty stood firm and tall, arriving in the capital within a week's march and liberating the 少帝 young Emperor from the grip of evil and corruption."
--«陳書•'太祖清君側'» 'The Noble Ancestoral Emperor eradicates evil from the imperial court', an extract from The Book of Chen
It would be a good time now to address the internal rivalries of China South of the Yellow River. Where Northern society was generally fairly rigid: a Turkic tribal leader at the top who came to extract tribute from a Chinese peasantry under a feudalistic system; Southern society was infinitely more complex.
Together with the Jin Emperor and his harem, the gentry of the Jin Empire accompanied the Jin nobility in the first Turkic invasions 5 centuries ago. Since then, the nobility and the gentry had been at each other's throats. The gentry composed the officials of the Chinese Empire: from lowly bureaucrats and pencil pushers to the highest office in the land: the chancellor. The question here was simple: was the bureaucracy a tool of the emperor tp govern the state; or was the bureaucracy the defining feature pf the Chinese state and pf Confucian civilization?
The gentry, obviously, wanted to secure power under the chancellor. The chancellor was seen as the voice of Confucian society, a cornerstone of what made China China. The nobility wished to centralize power under the imperial throne and the relatives of the Emperor. More radical nobles even called to ban gentrymen from military affairs. They argued that the gentry was a means to an end: the necessary tool that had been forged to govern the vast nation that was China. A strong Emperor was needed to balance the two forces and keep China from spiraling into civil war between the bureaucracy and nobility.
Eventually, tjis conflict spread to other parts of Chinese society. The weakening of the imperial throne through an unlucky line of boy-emperors left the Chinese nobility able to directly influence imperial policy. Under the Chen Dynasty, the 14 Princes System was established where the role of regent was cycled between 14 noblemen granted fiefdoms across China. The gentry was angered, winning over the rage of Confucian elements across China. In response, the Buddhists rallied to the flag of the nobility.
The battle lines of factionalism were drawn and erased, then redrawn and re-erased. Along decades of internal conflict, Chinese politics fell into utter chaos. It was however in 820 CE where the Prince of Ning, a prominent noblemen seized the chancellory and declared himself both regent and chancellor--the undisputed highest authority of the land who united nobility and bureaucracy.
If one was to say Confucian civilization in Northern China died to Turkic war cries; the it can be said that Vedic civilization vanquished Confucian civilization in the wake of thunderous applause.
A new age was upon China, a new age of sails, of merchants, of wealth.
Last edited:
KitFisto1997
Banned
Here's a bit of a proof-of-concept map of the German Confederation from my Revolution! TL. Think of it as a mix between the EU, German Confederation and the Holy Roman Empire, but with MegaCorps and Neo-Communists.
I'm gonna have a crack at doing a better version in the near future, either as a fancy MBAM or as an Inkscape/PS project.
Any and all questions would be welcome, just so I can flesh out some the basic ideas that I have atm.
What's the striped area suppose to mean? Is it to show that the Polish live there?
KitFisto1997
Banned
It's an autonomous region of the Polish Kingdom, specifically built to keep the German minority there happy. They have some special voting rights with regards to the Confederation's Parliament.
It's a restored Principality of Waldeck. They're trying to pull off what Liechtenstein has been doing IOTL.
Isaac Beach
Banned
It is bloody brilliant work, Xianfeng. It’s in effect a comprehensive explanation of how the center of Chinese power might shift southwards, and is more detailed and well planned than most of my own contributions to the TL, and I've been on this for near a year. You're more than welcome, and really I ought to be thanking you (We really were lost on China until you stepped in). A couple of wider notes:
- It's Isaac, Xiangfeng
.- TL-172 Dacia is the formal name for the Darceny project that Hatkirby and I created some time ago.
- There will be a TL-172 thread where we'll all post our various works and worldbuilding, but I'd like a complete world map and a few other things sorted out before that happens.
- There are five of us so far, but we'll expand that as necessary. Originally I was gonna have it just be open but the last thing I need is forty mapmakers arguing over the proper name of Byzanti-Istan-nople-grad, to be frank.
- That being said, right now I could really do with an expert -or at least an authority by the standards of this site- on Africa. Xianfeng's covered East Asia, Europe and the Americas are well deliberated, but Africa is a pretty huge hole in our collective knowledge. So anyone with some skill in that area please feel free to give me a buzz.
- I keep stressing that this isn't some sweatshop project with deadlines and such. Just some guys -and gals, should they join- making a fun world. But it's still the most detailed thing I've put my hand to since I've been on this site. So I hope the work of Xianfeng and everyone else entertains you all!
But my apologies, I should stop hijacking your scenario. Great work!
Finished that ocean basin map, and included a blank version for you guys to use.
SuperZtar64
Banned
Alright, after an afternoon of work I had this idea that I came up with on a whim: an Electoral College Calculator-style map of the *USA from Decades of Darkness. As some people might have figured out I absolutely love DoD and I never will run out of ways to draw maps for it, so here it is, my rendition of the 77 states of the United States of America, c. 1950.
- From the excellent work Decades of Darkness by Jared
- Basic outlines for the states from the Decades of Darkness page and this image
- Base map and map style from the Electoral College Calculator
- Number of states taken from Decades of Darkness #15: The Great Debate by Jared - "Look at that flag, ladies and gentleman. If there’s anyone in this hall who doesn’t already recognise it, then you need much stronger glasses. But look at it, all the same. Seventy-seven stars on that flag now, representing the seventy-seven states. And seven stripes, to represent the seven founding colonies which remained loyal."
Comments appreciated
- From the excellent work Decades of Darkness by Jared
- Basic outlines for the states from the Decades of Darkness page and this image
- Base map and map style from the Electoral College Calculator
- Number of states taken from Decades of Darkness #15: The Great Debate by Jared - "Look at that flag, ladies and gentleman. If there’s anyone in this hall who doesn’t already recognise it, then you need much stronger glasses. But look at it, all the same. Seventy-seven stars on that flag now, representing the seventy-seven states. And seven stripes, to represent the seven founding colonies which remained loyal."
Comments appreciated
The Planet of Tinia:
I don't really have any lore for it, but I've had this idea for awhile now: essentially, it's a small world just warm enough for their to be liquid water. Ice sheets cover the planet's shallows, including between the islands and continents. When I first came up with the idea, I did so to make me wonder how civilization would develop without the need for boats (as all landmasses are marginally connected from these ice sheets). There's no real lore or anything for this, just that there are aliens here and said aliens don't have boats.
I don't really have any lore for it, but I've had this idea for awhile now: essentially, it's a small world just warm enough for their to be liquid water. Ice sheets cover the planet's shallows, including between the islands and continents. When I first came up with the idea, I did so to make me wonder how civilization would develop without the need for boats (as all landmasses are marginally connected from these ice sheets). There's no real lore or anything for this, just that there are aliens here and said aliens don't have boats.
I have a pretty kewl map. It's of a multi polar Cold War between the US, USSR, East Asian Sphere (led by the RoC and Japan), and a European alliance (led by an Anglo- French Union). The map represents the situation circa 1970. There's two main PoDs
PoD 1: The Free French form an Anglo- French Union (AFU) with the UK. With many colonies seeing the AFU as the legitimate government, this cuts the war in the West by 6 months as Algeria remains allied, thus pushing the iron curtain to Poland.
PoD 2: The RoC doesn't go on the offensive in late 1945 and 1946, allowing for them to retain Southern China.
The Americas and Oceania
Just like OTL, this region is still mostly dominated by American interests. Australia, having seen American troops fight in the millions to defend them, would side with the US whilst New Zealand, not having had such an experience, would side with their Anglo parent culture. Much of the British and French colonies in the Pacific would also remain as protectorates or integral parts of the AFU. Canada siding with the FBU caused much disapproval in Quebec, causing the independence movement to gain more support and ultimately declare independence as a US ally. Latin America is almost entirely American friendly with the exceptions of communist Cuba and Nicaragua as well as the FBU land in the Caribbean, Belize, and Guyana(s). Overall, this region is very similar politically to OTL.
Europe
Europe, the heart of the FBU's power, is very different. The iron curtain now falls further East, splitting Poland and dividing Czechia and Slovakia. Many Europeans would fear Stalin as a foreigner and would look to the FBU as the last real great European power. Because of this pan- European identity, they've managed to unite everything from Franco's Spain to Tito's Yugoslavia under a common customs union, the Pan- European Community (this TL's EU). The Soviet bloc is even more strict than OTL, with Stalin having less buffer than in OTL. Conflict also brews between the FBU and US in Ireland, where Ireland, with US aid, would attempt to retake Northern Ireland in a proxy war. Overall, Europe is just as divided as OTL, though between different factions.
Africa
The Cold War also came to the African continent as well, with the FBU, Soviets, and Americans all staking their claims. With the increase in political strength, the FBU manages to hold on to some countries as protectorates and dominions, with others as cordial allies. The main FBU patner in Africa is the East African Federation, set up by the FBU to create a strong native ally to legitimize their continued presence in the continent. The US's main partner is South Africa, feeling threatened by FBU held Botswana and Rhodesia as well as communist Angola and Mozambique. The FBU ITTL manage to hold coastal Algeria which sparks a communist uprising in the independent inland parts. A similar situation happens in Egypt as the FBU controls the Suez Canal and the Israelis hold Sinai. Africa sees even more Cold War strife than OTL.
The Middle East
The situation in the Middle East, already having long standing conflicts, is made worse by great powers choosing sides. The main US regional partners are Saudi Arabia and Turkey, both seeing Europeans and communists as threats. The main FBU partners are Israel and Persia (the FBU ensures the preservation of the Phalvi Dynasty as their puppets) The partnership with Israel sparks deep resentment from the Arabs, most of whom are aligned with the USSR, most notably Egypt and Syria. The Middle East sees a deadly mixture of local and global politics combined to create the current situation.
Asia
Asia is perhaps the most changed continent of all from OTL. The RoC and Japan have buried the hatchet and cooperated with other Asian nations to effectively resist foreign powers. The South Vietnamese government supported this ideology and was thus more popular, which contributed, along with the reduced Soviet help, to a southern Vietnamese victory. The PRoC, now in a far weaker position, is forced to remain in the Soviet sphere and thus no Sino- Soviet split ever occurs. Due to a much weaker PRoC, Korea is unified under the Southern government, which is very supportive of the Pan- Asian Alliance. Hong Kong and Macau function as FBU bases with the US holding sway in Indonesia, the Philippines, and to an extent Pakistan. The USSR has puppets in Mongolia and Uyghurstan, as well as a loose relationship with India. Overall, Asia is perhaps the most divided continent in this world.
PoD 1: The Free French form an Anglo- French Union (AFU) with the UK. With many colonies seeing the AFU as the legitimate government, this cuts the war in the West by 6 months as Algeria remains allied, thus pushing the iron curtain to Poland.
PoD 2: The RoC doesn't go on the offensive in late 1945 and 1946, allowing for them to retain Southern China.
The Americas and Oceania
Just like OTL, this region is still mostly dominated by American interests. Australia, having seen American troops fight in the millions to defend them, would side with the US whilst New Zealand, not having had such an experience, would side with their Anglo parent culture. Much of the British and French colonies in the Pacific would also remain as protectorates or integral parts of the AFU. Canada siding with the FBU caused much disapproval in Quebec, causing the independence movement to gain more support and ultimately declare independence as a US ally. Latin America is almost entirely American friendly with the exceptions of communist Cuba and Nicaragua as well as the FBU land in the Caribbean, Belize, and Guyana(s). Overall, this region is very similar politically to OTL.
Europe
Europe, the heart of the FBU's power, is very different. The iron curtain now falls further East, splitting Poland and dividing Czechia and Slovakia. Many Europeans would fear Stalin as a foreigner and would look to the FBU as the last real great European power. Because of this pan- European identity, they've managed to unite everything from Franco's Spain to Tito's Yugoslavia under a common customs union, the Pan- European Community (this TL's EU). The Soviet bloc is even more strict than OTL, with Stalin having less buffer than in OTL. Conflict also brews between the FBU and US in Ireland, where Ireland, with US aid, would attempt to retake Northern Ireland in a proxy war. Overall, Europe is just as divided as OTL, though between different factions.
Africa
The Cold War also came to the African continent as well, with the FBU, Soviets, and Americans all staking their claims. With the increase in political strength, the FBU manages to hold on to some countries as protectorates and dominions, with others as cordial allies. The main FBU patner in Africa is the East African Federation, set up by the FBU to create a strong native ally to legitimize their continued presence in the continent. The US's main partner is South Africa, feeling threatened by FBU held Botswana and Rhodesia as well as communist Angola and Mozambique. The FBU ITTL manage to hold coastal Algeria which sparks a communist uprising in the independent inland parts. A similar situation happens in Egypt as the FBU controls the Suez Canal and the Israelis hold Sinai. Africa sees even more Cold War strife than OTL.
The Middle East
The situation in the Middle East, already having long standing conflicts, is made worse by great powers choosing sides. The main US regional partners are Saudi Arabia and Turkey, both seeing Europeans and communists as threats. The main FBU partners are Israel and Persia (the FBU ensures the preservation of the Phalvi Dynasty as their puppets) The partnership with Israel sparks deep resentment from the Arabs, most of whom are aligned with the USSR, most notably Egypt and Syria. The Middle East sees a deadly mixture of local and global politics combined to create the current situation.
Asia
Asia is perhaps the most changed continent of all from OTL. The RoC and Japan have buried the hatchet and cooperated with other Asian nations to effectively resist foreign powers. The South Vietnamese government supported this ideology and was thus more popular, which contributed, along with the reduced Soviet help, to a southern Vietnamese victory. The PRoC, now in a far weaker position, is forced to remain in the Soviet sphere and thus no Sino- Soviet split ever occurs. Due to a much weaker PRoC, Korea is unified under the Southern government, which is very supportive of the Pan- Asian Alliance. Hong Kong and Macau function as FBU bases with the US holding sway in Indonesia, the Philippines, and to an extent Pakistan. The USSR has puppets in Mongolia and Uyghurstan, as well as a loose relationship with India. Overall, Asia is perhaps the most divided continent in this world.
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