Map Thread XVIII

[Oxander]

Here is a map made from the 1836 start date of the Divergence of Darkness Mod for Victoria 2. For those that do not play the mod; the timeline has 4 main divergences from OTL. From the description of the mod page itself

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  Would love to see a full legend for this map! Like what is going on in Poland? Australia? Holy Nonsense at the African countries!

 

[GorillaTheater]

Scandinavian colonies in Hispanola, Angola, Mozambique, off India, and in SE Asia? I'm for it.

 

[FleetMac]

Neat map! I wonder what's going on in the SE of North America, perhaps a surviving Mississippian civilization (or colony based on it a la OTL Mexico)?

 

[Bob Hope]

Like I said, Republican is not strong enough to go for it. The Second Republic never had a chance even without Napoleon III, and the Third Republic was almost stillborn in 1873 if Henri de Chambord had accepted a compromise. (The Royalists control the National Assembly and the backing of the Orléanists as Henri had no kids, thus giving way to Prince Philippe, Count of Paris.)

There won't be a civil war, but a transfer of power as III leaves France in shame and the Legitimists and Orléanists make a grand comeback.

Another possibility is to install a "Regence de France" kinda like the Kingdom of Hungary interwars was a "Regency of Hungary", just waiting for Henri to die and secure the future King's throne

That's was more or less the Orléanists plan. But here Henri seen likely to have children, thus the throne would be secure for the House of Bourbon.

Well, if he's still married to the princess of Modene, he will not have a child, since his wife was unable to carry a child due to a bone malformation

Sounds like France will be out of the top league for a while.

I was also considering;-
1] The loss of prestige for Piedmont-Sardinia; probably no united Italy? continued Austrian domination?
2] Scaling back of French colonization; Madagascar, India, Indo-China? stronger native states or other Europeans take an interest?
3] Franco-Prussian War, does this still happen/
4] Austrian-Russian co-operation?
5] British scale back colonization due to backlash after defeat? Indian revolt 1857?

What are your thoughts?

 

[Drex]

This is based on my TL about the Fashoda crisis scalating into a world war. Sadly it's not even in English and I still have to fill many gaps before posting a fraction of the TL.

 

[Historyman 14]

Sounds like France will be out of the top league for a while.

I was also considering;-
1] The loss of prestige for Piedmont-Sardinia; probably no united Italy? continued Austrian domination?
2] Scaling back of French colonization; Madagascar, India, Indo-China? stronger native states or other Europeans take an interest?
3] Franco-Prussian War, does this still happen/
4] Austrian-Russian co-operation?
5] British scale back colonization due to backlash after defeat? Indian revolt 1857?

What are your thoughts?

France since 1879 hobby is chaotic politician landscape. (At least defeat in Crimean is no where as bad as the Fracno-Prussian War. That is what saves the Monarchy.)

1: I feel like the wheels and gears of Italian unification is already on the move. Have Austria treat the Italians better under their rule would help. But as long as there a Garibaldi, you still have Italian unification in the cards. Getting rid of him would derailed it all. You would something like 3 states. (Piedmont-Sardinia, Central Italy, Two Sicilies.)

2: France, or at least the public was never particularly enamored of colonialism, so I can see that.

3/4/5: Bleh mention that the British and the Freach would in fact support a German Confederation to act as a counterweight against Russia. Austria and Russia comes to even greater blows and tension,and in turn Austria is force intocooperation with Prussia. (Which works for Bismarck greatly.) The British pours money into strapping India with railroads and moving troops into Central Asia.

The issue with 1857 is the revolt was not united, and most of India (Like the the Ghurkhas who are intensely loyal to Britain.) remained loyal to the British and loyal sepoys played a crucial role in crushing the rebels. The Sikhs in particular never wavered, even though they had been fighting the British fiercely a mere decade earlier (the Sikhs hated the Mughals much, much, much, much more than they hated the British). It be smash in time as in OTL.

 

[Red Arturoist]

This is based on my TL about the Fashoda crisis scalating into a world war. Sadly it's not even in English and I still have to fill many gaps before posting a fraction of the TL.

It is "not even in English"? Is it in Spanish? German? Russian? French?

Also, what government/regime is present in the Western European Union/Empire? Constitutional monarchy?

Is Britain communist? Is Westfalen or Lower Saxony communist?
Is the *Soviet Union repressing Tatar ethnicities or are they rather reactionary?

 

[Drex]

It is "not even in English"? Is it in Spanish? German? Russian? French?

In Spanish. I'll try to translate it whenever I finish the original version except for short pieces.

Also, what government/regime is present in the Western European Union/Empire? Constitutional monarchy?

A personal union of France and Spain. It's a constitutional (not so much before) monarchy.

Is Britain communist? Is Westfalen or Lower Saxony communist?

None, they just happen to have these colours because I based myself on my colour scheme, which uses these.

Is the *Soviet Union repressing Tatar ethnicities or are they rather reactionary?

The first thing caused the second one.

 

[Red Arturoist]

None,

The first thing caused the second one.

Is any nation beyond the *Soviet Union communist?

 

[Drex]

Is any nation beyond the *Soviet Union communist?

That red nation in the southern tip of Africa could be called communist. However their version of communism is like OTL North Korea but with a Nazi racial view.

 

[Red Arturoist]

Nazi racial view.

Likely black supremacy, not white?

 

[Drex]

Likely black supremacy, not white?

Exactly. BTW that Cape Republic is an Afrikaner White supremacist state. Luckily nukes came late ITTL.

 

[Red Arturoist]

@Drex , did Germany remain divided throughout history or was it divided again after some war? What happened to the Rheinbund (since I presume the über-France is Nappy's personal empire)?

EDIT2: I saw that the German nations, including Austria, are in some sort of Union/confederation? Has it got a common head of government (e.g. a Kaiser)? How tight is the union - NAFTA? NATO? EU? Even closer?

EDIT: Also, has any nation been communist and had its red government overthrown/deposed? Maybe the USA - as it looks a bit like a former Soviet Union...

 

[Kaiser_Jaeger]

First off, credit where credit is due. I used @Bob Hope 's basemap and also @Skallagrim 's Hesperides map.

Its still a work in progress but any tips/criticisms are appreciated.
Heres what I have fleshed out so far.
Yes that is Atlantis and the big brown blob up north are Neanderthals. Atlantis is a confederation of several tribes. Following the Punic wars, many people fled Carthage and ended up in atlantis. Definitely some super-natural happenings in this world (Magic, gods etc). France is in a pretty nasty situation with Occitanian nationalism at a boiling point and Orléanist-lead rebels want to stop the constant fighting with britain. Bavaria is semi independent. A remnant of the knights templar fled Europe after the Pope tried to destroy the order. Their ships somehow ended up in OTL Brazil.

 

[Selvetrica]

Very, very interesting. What's going on in the Congo Basin and South-Central Africa? Seems like more powerful states have taken root outside traditional centres of civilizations like Ethiopia, Zimbabwe and Niger River.

Africa is not something I know the most about so I can not specifically comment on, I am sorry. Although I do know that while this world is slightly behind OTL tech wise, it is more evenly spread. For example Japan modernized a lot earlier with Burgundian traders. So it is safe to assume that the ideas of a centralized state have spread farther than they did OTL but this just a guess.

Would love to see a full legend for this map! Like what is going on in Poland? Australia? Holy Nonsense at the African countries!

I thought about making a legend for the people who do not play it. I may just do that this weekend. Ill tag you if I do end up posting it.
The mod actually has several short stories in its history thread that I could link you if you would like to read them. Ill condense the two you asked about though. So in this timeline The Commonwealth was able to stay together but just barley. Being at the mercy between Bohemia, Scandinavia and Hungary has lead to the country being the paper tiger of Europe. During the mod you can try to unify the remaining vassals(duchies?) by becoming a great power or have nationalism tear you apart.

Australia is one of the lost Chinese colonies called Zhouro. During the timeline of the game you have the option of trying to return home and conquer China and claim yourself as the new dynasty(extremely hard if not impossible). You can also claim Australia as the new Middle Kingdom and go on colonization adventures in Indonesia competing with Scandinavia and Burgundy.

Scandinavian colonies in Hispanola, Angola, Mozambique, off India, and in SE Asia? I'm for it.

Scandinavia or Spain are some of my favorite nations to play!

Neat map! I wonder what's going on in the SE of North America, perhaps a surviving Mississippian civilization (or colony based on it a la OTL Mexico)?

If you are talking about the purple country then that is a nation called Plantagenia(not my favorite name for a nation but I've accepted it.) It is one of the only monarchy nations of the New World. Originally an Anglo-French colony it got independence when an exiled prince tried to claim the throne. Having the backing of Scandinavia he was about to get the entire colony under control. The Duel monarchy not about to reconquer the colony because of the colonist terrain knowledge and the exiled prince not having the population to conquer the homeland lead to them agreeing to peace. Plantagenia has widespread slavery with a large Cherokee population to. In the mods timeline you have the potential to form a "Southern Destiny" and conquer your way to the pacific through Lusitania(Gran Colombian provinces to the Pacific)

 

[Deleted member 101966]

Tomorrow Country - Yukon
A Place for Northerners

Never before have so few provided for so many, goes the triumphant narrative of Canada's post-war miracle. Upwards of ten million displaced survivors were resettled in the country's sparse North, regardless of nationality, politics, or race - a process frequently spoken of as the single greatest humanitarian act in history.

That's the national myth. It’s endorsed by the overextended United Nations in Lagos, which is generally happy to let Canada take the moral lead on North American affairs. But the North wasn’t empty before the war, and the resettlement of the ten million inevitably created winners and losers.

Did you or at least half of your direct ancestors receive federal government assistance under the Emergency Resettlement Act (2020)? Fifty years on, this question divides Canadian society like no other. The small minority that answers “no” are the Northerners, a culturally indistinct subgroup overrepresented at every echelon of power and commerce. Everywhere but Yukon, their interests are opposed by an enormous majority of Southerners, resettled North Americans who solidly stand by the federal government's redistributive efforts. It's the rugged valleys and peaks of the Klondike Country, then, where Canada's prewar inhabitants make their last stand.

The rest of the writeup can be found here

 

[Drex]

did Germany remain divided throughout history or was it divided again after some war? What happened to the Rheinbund (since I presume the über-France is Nappy's personal empire)?

No. The PoD is 1898 which seems kind of a late PoD for the map, but just assume that butterffly effect can do everything. Germany won WW1 against France and Russia (Fashoda War becomes WW1). Then Germany enters a victory sickness and the Kaiser spends most of the money in building a navy which would be useless later on. France and Russia went into *fascist (more like orthodox/catholic-conservatism) and invaded Germany in WW2, winning. They decided that an unified Germany was too much of a threat and decided to divide Germany following moreless internal subdivisions and stablishing separate authorities for each of them. Eventually a German Commonwealth was founded decades later when these states became stable enough.

EDIT2: I saw that the German nations, including Austria, are in some sort of Union/confederation? Has it got a common head of government (e.g. a Kaiser)? How tight is the union - NAFTA? NATO? EU? Even closer?

Despite all of the members being monarchies, the overall union has a republican government. There is no "king of the Germans" but rather an elected president of the Commonwealth. Despite that tittle the president holds relatively little power with all member states being independent except for some key issues such as a common currency. You can call it a "reduced European Union". There's not that much difference really.

EDIT: Also, has any nation been communist and had its red government overthrown/deposed? Maybe the USA - as it looks a bit like a former Soviet Union...

The US itself experienced communist uprisings during the early 30's but they weren't succesful. Communism ITTL isn't well-spreaded as the top powers after WW2 were all either reactionary monarchies or right-wing liberal governments. With no Communist superpower such as OTL's USSR to exert it's influence, communist parties remain small and usually focalised in a more nationalistic view. There were other "communist" governments such as Chinese Warlords or other Russian States and a German Socialist Revolution in the 60's, but they all died out.

 

[Red Arturoist]

They decided that an unified Germany was too much of a threat and decided to divide Germany following moreless internal subdivisions and stablishing separate authorities for each of them. Eventually a German Commonwealth was founded decades later when these states became stable enough.

What sort of government was it that contracted "victory sickness" in Germany? Also, were these states just made independent or was a Morgenthau-like plan for additional punishment put into practice?

German Socialist Revolution in the 60's

Really? Was it only socialist, or also unificationist? What sort of socialism did it follow - Marxism? Leninism? Other forms of socialism/communism?
And did it have any consequences at all (e.g. liberalisation or a "counterculture"), or were the revolutionaries crushed and nothing more happened?

 

[Drex]

What sort of government was it that contracted "victory sickness" in Germany? Also, were these states just made independent or was a Morgenthau-like plan for additional punishment put into practice?

A government that thought that by defeating both France and Russia into a war and finally obtaining their" place under the sun" at the expense of France felt unbeatable with almost all of their objectives accomplished. The next governments tried to focus on reforming Germany from inside, but met with the opposition of the Kaiser and that caused several institutional crisis. Think Morgenthau better.

Really? Was it only socialist, or also unificationist? What sort of socialism did it follow - Marxism? Leninism? Other forms of socialism/communism?
And did it have any consequences at all (e.g. liberalisation or a "counterculture"), or were the revolutionaries crushed and nothing more happened?

Both socialist and unionist. It was Marxism (Lenin died without a revolution to support his ideas, so Leninism is pretty marginal ITTL) with a bit of nationalist rethoritc. Essentially "A nation of workers". Revolutionaries were crushed but Franco-Spanish politicians understood that something had to be done about Germany and thus the German Commonwealth was created (also WW3 kinda forced this by "allow us to form some sort of state or we will desert")

 

[Red Arturoist]

WW3

There were three World Wars? Fashoda Crisis caused WWI, then there were two more of them?

A government that thought that by defeating both France and Russia into a war and finally obtaining their" place under the sun" at the expense of France felt unbeatable with almost all of their objectives accomplished.

So rather ultra-Bismarck or Stahlhelm-like, not with all the Nazi racial views, genocidal antisemitism etc.?

The next governments tried to focus on reforming Germany from inside, but met with the opposition of the Kaiser and that caused several institutional crisis. Think Morgenthau better.

So it was a civil war/collapse rather than invasion by France and Russia? Also, how did Poland get its borders? Is East Prussia member of the German Confederation?

Also, is there a link to the TL in Spanish? I can understand some Spanish...