Map Thread XVIII

[Valdore Javorsky]

Finally done!

Here's China in the world of Kaiserreich! Hope you enjoy!

might add a brief write-in after i get some sleep

Lovely! Definitely already among my favourite maps for this Map Thread.

By the way, a little shoutout (to the Kaiserreich team!) : I personally am a bit dissatisfied at the fact that Tsingtau (Shandong area) is part of the AOG, a company, while Weihaiwei is under German Governmental control (even if autonomous) - because Tsingtau was the german state-controlled area in WW1 while Weihaiwei was a British Concession.

 

[XFE]

Here's China in the world of Kaiserreich! Hope you enjoy!

It's brilliant, but regarding Beijing: AFAIK Peping was the KMT-Republican name for the city, emphasizing that the capital was in Nanking. I'd think the Qing would refer to Beijing as Peking over Peping.

Christ. Screw Wade-giles. It's like they had to create the most unintuitive system imaginable by man.

 

[timmy_khagann]

It's brilliant, but regarding Beijing: AFAIK Peping was the KMT-Republican name for the city, emphasizing that the capital was in Nanking. I'd think the Qing would refer to Beijing as Peking over Peping.

Christ. Screw Wade-giles. It's like they had to create the most unintuitive system imaginable by man.

Glad to see someone who knows their shit about the Warlord Era here! I certainly don't lol, which was why I put my trust in the CIA when I went to labeling the cities--assume the map's made by a Yank, by the way.

As for Peking and Peping, eh. I just added both because I can't be assed to check the beef between the KMT and the Aisin Gioro . I saved most of my effort in researching the names for Inner Mongolia and Tibet.

(Especially Tibet--seriously, getting the Tibetan names of the cities in the TAR took me an hour, including the time it took to actually corroborate what's on the maps. This part's also hard because every map of the region from at least 1980 basically used only Tibetan Pinyin or something, which an actually sovereign Tibetan nation probably wouldn't use.)

Admittedly, Wade-Giles isn't as bad as Wylie for Tibetan, where pronunciation and transliteration don't even match lol

By the way, a little shoutout (to the Kaiserreich team!) : I personally am a bit dissatisfied at the fact that Tsingtau (Shandong area) is part of the AOG, a company, while Weihaiwei is under German Governmental control (even if autonomous) - because Tsingtau was the german state-controlled area in WW1 while Weihaiwei was a British Concession.

Just a foreword from here: I'm not part of the dev team. I just like the setting a lot, so much so that I made no less than three maps of it.

As for Weihaiwei, it probably got assimilated into Deutsch-Ostasien because the Germans want a little bit more control over the Chinese coast, particularly the part that borders the Bohai Sea. At the end of the day, AOG's just a conglomerate with de facto suzerainty over a bunch of concession ports in China--contrast to Deutsch-Ostasien, where most of the German military presence in the Asia-Pacific is concentrated, and with a larger population and industry base. It'd make sense for Germany to integrate Weihaiwei to their little "army with a state" in Indochina for strategic purposes, rather than cede it to the AOG for their Board of Directors to do with it as they see fit.

 

[Redcoat]

Screwank

Here are all 5 countries on a QBAM.

 

[Valdore Javorsky]

Just a foreword from here: I'm not part of the dev team. I just like the setting a lot, so much so that I made no less than three maps of it.

As for Weihaiwei, it probably got assimilated into Deutsch-Ostasien because the Germans want a little bit more control over the Chinese coast, particularly the part that borders the Bohai Sea. At the end of the day, AOG's just a conglomerate with de facto suzerainty over a bunch of concession ports in China--contrast to Deutsch-Ostasien, where most of the German military presence in the Asia-Pacific is concentrated, and with a larger population and industry base. It'd make sense for Germany to integrate Weihaiwei to their little "army with a state" in Indochina for strategic purposes, rather than cede it to the AOG for their Board of Directors to do with it as they see fit.

Yeah I knew that (or was at least very sure) you aren't, which is why I added the "(to the Kaiserreich team!)" to it ^^

Yeah, I could see why Weihaiwei would be directly annexed by Germany (In my TL, it is owned by Germany as well), it's just the tsingtau part lets me scratch my head since it would mean Germany would "lose" territory, which is kinda unlikely. Additionally, I'm more familiar with the older version of Kaiserreich in which the AOG still controlled the League area, and there Germany directly owned Tsingtau (or via GEA).

 

[Ashtagon]

It is done.

Full size version:
https://www.deviantart.com/ashtagon/art/1708-Map-Alexis-Jaillot-757676232

Some questions for further development:

1: For a modern world development of this map, I need to understand the climate better. Given the geography, would Australia's climate and/or vegetation be radically different? How so?

2: Same question for NW America. In particular, that inland sea is troubling for geology purposes. It looks like the southern and possibly eastern coast should generally be unsuitable for harbours, possibly mostly cliff-like. Does that make sense given everything else? How would the radically different coastline affect vegetation and climate?

3: Should I use this Antarctica, or a different one?

 

[Albidoom]

I found a map at reddit and a reverse image search did yield it's origin at a blog named Alternate History Weekly:

http://alternatehistoryweeklyupdate.blogspot.com/2012/02/one-way-to-divide-america-ethnicity.html

 

[ETGalaxy]

I found a map at reddit and a reverse image search did yield it's origin at a blog named Alternate History Weekly:

http://alternatehistoryweeklyupdate.blogspot.com/2012/02/one-way-to-divide-america-ethnicity.html

What does the ethnicity "American" mean?

 

[Ivoshafen]

What does the ethnicity "American" mean?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ancestry

 

[Skallagrim]

I found a map at reddit and a reverse image search did yield it's origin at a blog named Alternate History Weekly:

http://alternatehistoryweeklyupdate.blogspot.com/2012/02/one-way-to-divide-america-ethnicity.html

Huh, this is actually very "Holy Roman Empire"-looking. Regardless of the amount of merit (or lack thereof) one might associate with the idea of dividing people racially, I do like anything that resembles the HRE. Hey, let's make similar maps based on languages and regional dialects thereof, and based on religious affiliation, as well as on strong political preferences. Then overlay all these maps, draw borders based on "everything that looks like it's got its own distinct identity gets to be a distinct state". And then instead of using it to carve the USA into bits, just turn it into Holy Roman America!

If nothing else, it would probably make for a fascinating ASB setting.

 

[Mitro]

I found a map at reddit and a reverse image search did yield it's origin at a blog named Alternate History Weekly:

http://alternatehistoryweeklyupdate.blogspot.com/2012/02/one-way-to-divide-america-ethnicity.html

That's from my old blog. Map done by @False Dmitri

As a side note: Why do so many people leave out the "Update" in the name? Its right there in the title! Not trying to pick on you Albidoom, just happens a lot for some reason.

 

[B_Munro]

Here's China in the world of Kaiserreich! Hope you enjoy!

Oh, yes indeed.

 

[Bleh]

What does the ethnicity "American" mean?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ancestry

American White Southerners are primarily Scottish and Scots Irish if I recall correctly. I don't know why censuses have allowed for claiming a distinct "American" ethnic identity, it seems to me to be divisive and subtly racist. Perhaps those who work closely with census data can help clear up my ignorance on why it was included.

 

[Skallagrim]

American White Southerners are primarily Scottish and Scots Irish if I recall correctly. I don't know why censuses have allowed for claiming a distinct "American" ethnic identity, it seems to me to be divisive and subtly racist. Perhaps those who work closely with census data can help clear up my ignorance on why it was included.

It's probably because the goal was to find out how people identify themselves. Identity is always subjective, to some extent. To say people can't be "American" because that's somehow racist seems a bit like saying people can't be Dutch, because actually their ancestors are all Franks, Saxons and Frisians. Identities evolve. In a way, people calling thelmselves "American" regardless of background could be the least racist thing there is. (Although it is not, perhaps, used that way now. I just mean that if a guy whose great-granddad lived in England and a guy whose great-granddad lived in Nigeria both feel that they are members of the same American nation, and mutually agree that they are both members of that nation, and also both feel that who and what they are in the here-and-now is far more important that where there ancestors may once have lived... I think that sounds awesome.)

 

[Bleh]

It is done.

Full size version:
https://www.deviantart.com/ashtagon/art/1708-Map-Alexis-Jaillot-757676232

Some questions for further development:

1: For a modern world development of this map, I need to understand the climate better. Given the geography, would Australia's climate and/or vegetation be radically different? How so?

2: Same question for NW America. In particular, that inland sea is troubling for geology purposes. It looks like the southern and possibly eastern coast should generally be unsuitable for harbours, possibly mostly cliff-like. Does that make sense given everything else? How would the radically different coastline affect vegetation and climate?

3: Should I use this Antarctica, or a different one?

1: I can't speak to Australia's climate but being connected to Papua New Guinea would give Australia access to yams, wouldn't it? The landbridge would also make it much easier to access Australia from places like Maluku or Mindanao so you would probably get a much greater population in Papua-Australia with possibly a tradition of agriculture and powerful polities, a la Lands of Red and Gold.

3: You should use this Antarctica for continuity, I think, as well as for what such a cold but accessible coast would mean for travel between Patagonia, the Cape, and Australia. It would seem that New Zealand is part of Antarctica as well?

What I'm curious about is if you'll create an Arctica. It looks like the general Alaska area has been left alone for precisely that possibility.

 

[ETGalaxy]

American White Southerners are primarily Scottish and Scots Irish if I recall correctly. I don't know why censuses have allowed for claiming a distinct "American" ethnic identity, it seems to me to be divisive and subtly racist. Perhaps those who work closely with census data can help clear up my ignorance on why it was included.

Because 'Murica, that's why.

 

[wtw]

Finally done!



Here's China in the world of Kaiserreich! Hope you enjoy!

might add a brief write-in after i get some sleep, oh and do tell me if i butchered the wade-giles and tibetan romanization lol

That Tibet is what China in our timeline wants the world to think, in reality Tibet was double the size it is now

 

[Bleh]

It's probably because the goal was to find out how people identify themselves. Identity is always subjective, to some extent. To say people can't be "American" because that's somehow racist seems a bit like saying people can't be Dutch, because actually their ancestors are all Franks, Saxons and Frisians. Identities evolve. In a way, people calling thelmselves "American" regardless of background could be the least racist thing there is. (Although it is not, perhaps, used that way now. I just mean that if a guy whose great-granddad lived in England and a guy whose great-granddad lived in Nigeria both feel that they are members of the same American nation, and mutually agree that they are both members of that nation, and also both feel that who and what they are in the here-and-now is far more important that where there ancestors may once have lived... I think that sounds awesome.)

Yes, but that would be nationality. I am also American and that is my highest loyalty, despite the fact that my ancestors came from Germany and I currently live in Mexico. However, I recognize that my ethnicity is German and my country of residence is Mexico, despite my not speaking a lick of German and despite the fact that I identify as American and speak English most comfortably. The difference here is that the US is not an ethnostate and was not formed as such, even in its earliest days. As you say, identity changes but it gets me a bit riled up that some people feel able to claim being ethnically American when in truth one can be just as American while having any genetic make up whatsoever and coming from any number of cultures. Ethnicity has a certain exclusivity to it.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

American White Southerners are primarily Scottish and Scots Irish if I recall correctly. I don't know why censuses have allowed for claiming a distinct "American" ethnic identity, it seems to me to be divisive and subtly racist. Perhaps those who work closely with census data can help clear up my ignorance on why it was included.

"Subtly racist"? It's been a thing forever.

 

[Bleh]

"Subtly racist"? It's been a thing forever.

An "American" selection for ethnicity on censuses? I thought it was relatively recent.