Ephraim Ben Raphael
Banned
I suspect that Israel, Jordan, Iraq, and Turkey would object to their territories becoming part of Syria. Iraq is also probably a German ally- it was OTL. Lebanon meanwhile, was already part of French Syria.
Map Thread XVII
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I suspect that Israel, Jordan, Iraq, and Turkey would object to their territories becoming part of Syria. Iraq is also probably a German ally- it was OTL. Lebanon meanwhile, was already part of French Syria.
Great American Flood:
Following this disaster on the 20th of July 1983, President Ronald Reagan placed States and regions of States in Extreme State of Emergency as well as States in Emergency and States of Concern. Dark Green signifies Extreme, Pale signifies States in Emergency and Blueish Green are States of Concern.
The States in Extreme State of Emergency have been divided to better re-stabilize. Arizona is now divided into the Gila Extreme Emergency Zone and the Glen Canyon/Northern Arizona Extreme Emergency Zone, which goes up to the San Juan River. The Las Vegas Extreme Emergency Zone extends from the Nevada/Utah Stateline to Death Valley. California is divided into two zones: Los Angeles and Imperial.
President Reagan also ‘divided’ the states in Emergency and Concern as well. Central California was issued a State of Emergency with the cities of San Francisco and Sacramento placed in Extreme State of Emergency. Central Nevada was also declared a State in Emergency with Carson City being designated in Extreme State of Emergency. Southern Utah, Green River, Western Colorado and Extreme Western New Mexico were also declared States in Emergency. The Cities and regions declared Extreme are: St. George, Grand Junction and Gallup. Northern California, Northern Nevada, Northern Utah and South Western Wyoming are in States of Concern.
Overnight the Southwest was changed forever and would never be as settled as in otl. This disaster would confirm that the Western United States is indeed wild and untamable. The initial death toll was recorded the mid two hundred thousands but a hard number would never be determined and only estimates ranging from 200,000 to 325,000.
Following this disaster on the 20th of July 1983, President Ronald Reagan placed States and regions of States in Extreme State of Emergency as well as States in Emergency and States of Concern. Dark Green signifies Extreme, Pale signifies States in Emergency and Blueish Green are States of Concern.
The States in Extreme State of Emergency have been divided to better re-stabilize. Arizona is now divided into the Gila Extreme Emergency Zone and the Glen Canyon/Northern Arizona Extreme Emergency Zone, which goes up to the San Juan River. The Las Vegas Extreme Emergency Zone extends from the Nevada/Utah Stateline to Death Valley. California is divided into two zones: Los Angeles and Imperial.
President Reagan also ‘divided’ the states in Emergency and Concern as well. Central California was issued a State of Emergency with the cities of San Francisco and Sacramento placed in Extreme State of Emergency. Central Nevada was also declared a State in Emergency with Carson City being designated in Extreme State of Emergency. Southern Utah, Green River, Western Colorado and Extreme Western New Mexico were also declared States in Emergency. The Cities and regions declared Extreme are: St. George, Grand Junction and Gallup. Northern California, Northern Nevada, Northern Utah and South Western Wyoming are in States of Concern.
Overnight the Southwest was changed forever and would never be as settled as in otl. This disaster would confirm that the Western United States is indeed wild and untamable. The initial death toll was recorded the mid two hundred thousands but a hard number would never be determined and only estimates ranging from 200,000 to 325,000.
Central and northern California, I thought, get much of their water from reservoirs in the Sierra Nevada (Hetch Hetchy, et al.), not the Colorado River. In fact, IIRC, that's the source of many water disputes in California: people in the south see the wetter north as a source of fresh water, while people in the north want to protect their own water supplies for drinking and agriculture. San Francisco and Sacramento probably wouldn't be in a state of emergency. Hell, even Los Angeles, while it would face a water emergency, would probably be able to make do with strict water rationing, given that they only got a fraction of their water from the Colorado River in 1983; most of it came from the Owens Valley and northern California. That said, were the Glen Canyon Dam to fail and take the rest of the Colorado River's dams with it, I'd imagine those fights getting even more heated and bitter than in OTL, with serious calls in northern California to split the state in two rather than drain the Central Valley the way the Owens Valley was by the LA Aqueduct. Los Angeles wouldn't dry up and vanish like Las Vegas and Phoenix, but its future growth would suffer badly.
I'd also imagine, with a calamity like this, that the "sagebrush rebellion" would take on a very different cast. In OTL, it came to be driven heavily by anti-environmental concerns, led by ranchers, sportsmen, and miners who saw federal management of the land as more concerned with protecting nature than supporting the livelihoods of the people who worked the land. Here, however, I can see a lot of environmentalists in the Edward Abbey mold getting involved in the movement, seeing the government as caring only about development for its own sake without regard to either nature or people. Even in OTL, the Glen Canyon Dam was a rallying cry for the environmental movement in the '70s and '80s, and here, with its collapse grabbing the world's attention, they've seemingly been vindicated in their concerns about its construction. The new narrative for the sagebrush rebellion would be similar to OTL's in terms of its calls for more state and local control over federal lands, but very different in its message on environmental protection, seeing Washington as being obsessed with development for its own sake without considering the consequences.
I'd also imagine, with a calamity like this, that the "sagebrush rebellion" would take on a very different cast. In OTL, it came to be driven heavily by anti-environmental concerns, led by ranchers, sportsmen, and miners who saw federal management of the land as more concerned with protecting nature than supporting the livelihoods of the people who worked the land. Here, however, I can see a lot of environmentalists in the Edward Abbey mold getting involved in the movement, seeing the government as caring only about development for its own sake without regard to either nature or people. Even in OTL, the Glen Canyon Dam was a rallying cry for the environmental movement in the '70s and '80s, and here, with its collapse grabbing the world's attention, they've seemingly been vindicated in their concerns about its construction. The new narrative for the sagebrush rebellion would be similar to OTL's in terms of its calls for more state and local control over federal lands, but very different in its message on environmental protection, seeing Washington as being obsessed with development for its own sake without considering the consequences.
A pretty neat oremise for a map! Reminds me of 2015's Samarco dam disaster in Brazil, except possibly worse.
By 1983 the Wild West was almost a century past. Reagan was from California, after all, and while there may be some cowboy aesthetics associated with them I doubt people would write off the West as uninhabitable even after a disaster of this magnitude.
Of course, I don't know the demographic history of California by heart, so maybe I'm wrong.
I should've been more specific about that. I meant the interior west states like Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Colorado and New Mexico. Sure, California will retain that allure of it being the Land of Opportunity but it will be a shadow of what it is in OTL due to the loss of the Imperial Valley and the collapse of the Agriculture Industry. The interior states such as Nevada, Utah and Arizona were dependent on dams such as Hoover and Glen Canyon to survive with large populations. Western Colorado is the only true exception due to the many rivers flowing through it (Rio Grande, Dolores, San Miguel, San Juan, Uncompahgre, Gunnison and the Colorado) all of which are able to support farming and large populations and only are devastated because of a large amount of the power we use on this slope comes from the Glen Canyon Dam.
They really don't but they do rely, at least at some part, on power from the Hoover Dam. I saw that with this massive loss of life coupled with loss of power in large areas of the West that cities would be in dire straights. I can see where you are coming from and I probably shouldn't have included San Fran since only Sacramento really relied upon the power from Hoover but i wanted to show how destructive this disaster was. Sure water rations can get sustain a city but if you are in the desert and you lose the one thing that provides the majority of your power you can only last so long. That's where I was coming from. People aren't going to hold out for long in conditions like that. Oh totally it wouldn't disappear like those cities just that the population would halve. I think I said that in my first post of this series a couple pages back (409 I think).
I agree 100% that this would validate people viewing the Government as only developing for themselves without any regard whatsoever. I was kind of envisioning marches, I wouldn't go as far as riots, but very heated demonstrations in these interior western states demanding the return of the lands where the Dams failed and the hardliners would demand that the dams not be rebuilt. I haven't quite figured out where this will lead but I'm close and open to ideas.
I was referring to this map showing the locations where power from the Hoover dam goes.
The sequel to "It Started Here", the Great War lasted from 1912-1918, while the "People's War", a parallel to the Great War, lasted from 1913-1922. The Great War was fought between the German-Russian forces of the Warsaw Accords and the Two Oceans Entente, which lead to a de-facto Warsaw victory in Europe, and a Entente victory almost everywhere else. The People's war, meanwhile was fought between the Entente (mainly the British), the now-defunct "Two King's Alliance" of Peru-Brazil, and the Worker's International.
Here details the 20 year "Uneasy Peace" between 1922 and 1942 which would eventually lead to the Outbreak of the "Second Great War" or the "Worker's Liberation War" following the Barcelona Crisis.
The previous map:
Ephraim Ben Raphael
Banned
Nice, the disintegration of the French Republic and the Ottoman Empire should be fun. I think the Rashidis are the wrong color though.
That's a gorgeous map, great work. I think Kingdom of Man is missing a K, though.
Vuu
Banned
Kick
The only real solution to Bosnia without "let God sort 'em out" is a huge population exchange then split it - but good luck with that in the 21st century with the nearest major powers are insanely multiculturalistic (can't we all just get along sob sob i crie everytiem tier politics about to give them a massive kick in the ass) and protective of absolutely idiotic borders (probably because Tito was their bitch)
KitFisto1997
Banned
idk what this is. blame some late night trawling through dA and previous map threads... Also some TL-191 stuff in there too, I guess.
TL;DR the South is basically like Northern Ireland on 'roids (lots of angry nationalists on both sides), Utah is Afghanistan (i.e. it's a bitch to occupy, full of angry bearded dudes that take multiple wives*), the Negro States are Bantustans (separate but equal, but at least the blacks can *mostly* vote) and there's probably some angry socialists in Chicago too. Also that southern Texan* state is being occupied because Mexico is undergoing a civil war between *Zaptistas, Monarchists, Catholic Clerical Fascists* and a losing Republican faction, so the Federal Government turned it into a massive refugee camp, since the remaining Anglos were dumped into the re-admitted Texas after the Civil War. It was established that the Texans didn't have a 'proper Southern identity' and were given pretty lenient treatment, despite their obvious balkanisation. The NW Texan state is only a territory because of the population size.
Should I do a full map of this? :v
* No, that's not an attack on Mormons (or Afghans for that matter). ITTL the more reactionary factions won out regarding the 'Polygamy Question' and have fuelled an insurrectionist movement in uber!Utah thereby.
How did the Confederates get reabsorbed into the US? Did they lose a war? If so which one?
idk what this is. blame some late night trawling through dA and previous map threads... Also some TL-191 stuff in there too, I guess.
TL;DR the South is basically like Northern Ireland on 'roids (lots of angry nationalists on both sides), Utah is Afghanistan (i.e. it's a bitch to occupy, full of angry bearded dudes that take multiple wives*), the Negro States are Bantustans (separate but equal, but at least the blacks can *mostly* vote) and there's probably some angry socialists in Chicago too. Also that southern Texan* state is being occupied because Mexico is undergoing a civil war between *Zaptistas, Monarchists, Catholic Clerical Fascists* and a losing Republican faction, so the Federal Government turned it into a massive refugee camp, since the remaining Anglos were dumped into the re-admitted Texas after the Civil War. It was established that the Texans didn't have a 'proper Southern identity' and were given pretty lenient treatment, despite their obvious balkanisation. The NW Texan state is only a territory because of the population size.
Should I do a full map of this? :v
* No, that's not an attack on Mormons (or Afghans for that matter). ITTL the more reactionary factions won out regarding the 'Polygamy Question' and have fuelled an insurrectionist movement in uber!Utah thereby.
KitFisto1997
Banned
The CSA loses like OTL. It's just that the 'Reconstruction' of TTL quickly turns to suppressing a Taliban/Werwolf-type insurrection by rebel Confederate armies and sympathetic militias. Most of these armies have since been pacified, but there are those that still want to keep the idea of a Free South™ alive in the form of car bombings, assassinations and the selling of moonshine and tobacco over the Mason-Dixon Line. The US has conveniently entered a Prohibition-type era, so any sort of drug-running/bootlegging is absolutely verboten.
Come to think of it, a CSA = Mexico scenario sounds pretty cool...
To be fair, I've heard people say that the south at that time resembled Latin America more than Canada or the rest of the US.Come to think of it, a CSA = Mexico scenario sounds pretty cool...
Is this secretly leading up to 1984? Because that's what I first think of when I see a Pan-American socialist state (or allegedly socialist, in the case of the actual 1984 novel).
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