Map Thread XVII

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Even with high birth rates, achieving parity with the serfs by the end of the 1940s indicates that substantially over half the population of a billion plus is white, and even with high birth rates, the notion that the Draka manage to achieve a white population exceeding the entire population of the OTL Anglosphere strikes me as out-Stirling SM himself... :D

This is based on an SM Stirling novel, so lesbianism is probably involved...
 
This map was a commission.

Description courtesy of @Flashman

Since it's mentioned that the Draka immigration policy favored Christians over non-Christian whites, why would they destroy Jerusalem? Wouldn't that just alienate their White Christian population? Not to mention further alienate the British and other White Christian powers...
 
So, an alt-Draka which stays out of WWII? A truly titanic task triumphant. Although I had a couple iffy bits...

What happened to China and India?

Admittedly, this was a bit of an oversight on my part (I assumed China and India's populations were closer to a Billion than a Billion and a half), but I suppose it's plausible that the Green Revolution could be delayed, or that India or China could be smaller in terms of territory, or that some calamity befell the nation (something akin to the Sino-Soviet War going hot?). I'll think more about this, and possibly retcon that.

Even with high birth rates, achieving parity with the serfs by the end of the 1940s indicates that substantially over half the population of a billion plus is white, and even with high birth rates, the notion that the Draka manage to achieve a white population exceeding the entire population of the OTL Anglosphere strikes me as out-Stirling SM himself... :D

A few things to consider.

First, I didn't make it super clear, but the Dutch Cape Colony was more densely settled compared to OTL, having a population around 750,000 or so when the British capture it. That gives a much bigger demographic base to work with than the OTL Cape Colony.

Second, there's a somewhat more lax definition of "White" here. Arabs, non-Drakan Europeans, Kurds, and Persians eventually attain a second-class citizenship.

Third, the Afrikaners IOTL did have a very high rate of growth, just about doubling every 20-25 years until the modern era before you factor in immigration. With very explicitly pro-natalist policies, its possible that rate might be increased a bit, or at the very least decay much slower than OTL. Today there are about ~500 million Whites in the Americas. In 1820 that figure was 12 million. In 1783, that was closer to 5 million. If the Draka Confederation receives a large share of European immigrants, it might just be possible to pull off. It's also worth noting is that Germany gets dismembered Morgenthau-style ITTL, prompting tens of millions to flee, so that's a huge injection of people right there)

I admit it's pushing the envelope with plausibility, but if everything went right, and taking into account all of that, I do think you could just barely pull it off.

The detail about the citizen population rising to parity with the serfs was a detail included by the commissioner, so I've done my best to come up with a justification for that.

Oh cool ! Is there a deviantart page for this ?

There is, click on the link at the bottom of the post with the map.

Since it's mentioned that the Draka immigration policy favored Christians over non-Christian whites, why would they destroy Jerusalem? Wouldn't that just alienate their White Christian population? Not to mention further alienate the British and other White Christian powers...

That detail was also included by the commissioner. My guess is that the Christian holy sites probably weren't explicitly targeted, but might have been accidentally destroyed in fierce fighting as so many other cities were. Either that, or Draka went after Mecca and Medina first, and that could have prompted a reprisal attack on Christian sites. With Christian sites in Jerusalem destroyed, Draka doesn't hold back on the rest of the city?

The concern about how Draka's Christian population would react is valid - but in terms of intentional opinion, Draka was just on the verge of Pariah status as is.
 
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That detail was also included by the commissioner. My guess is that the Christian holy sites probably weren't explicitly targeted, but might have been accidentally destroyed in fierce fighting as so many other cities were. Either that, or Draka went after Mecca and Medina first, and that could have prompted a reprisal attack on Christian sites. With Christian sites in Jerusalem destroyed, Draka doesn't hold back on the rest of the city?

The concern about how Draka's Christian population would react is valid - but in terms of intentional opinion, Draka was just on the verge of Pariah status as is.

Ah. Gotcha.

In any case, thanks for the speedy response.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Admittedly, this was a bit of an oversight on my part (I assumed China and India's populations were closer to a Billion than a Billion and a half), but I suppose it's plausible that the Green Revolution could be delayed, or that India or China could be smaller in terms of territory, or that some calamity befell the nation (something akin to the Sino-Soviet War going hot?). I'll think more about this, and possibly retcon that.

A few things to consider.

First, I didn't make it super clear, but the Dutch Cape Colony was more densely settled compared to OTL, having a population around 750,000 or so when the British capture it. That gives a much bigger demographic base to work with than the OTL Cape Colony.

Second, there's a somewhat more lax definition of "White" here. Arabs, non-Drakan Europeans, Kurds, and Persians eventually attain a second-class citizenship.

Third, the Afrikaners IOTL did have a very high rate of growth, just about doubling every 20-25 years until the modern era before you factor in immigration. With very explicitly pro-natalist policies, its possible that rate might be increased a bit, or at the very least decay much slower than OTL. Today there are about ~500 million Whites in the Americas. In 1820 that figure was 12 million. In 1783, that was closer to 5 million. If the Draka Confederation receives a large share of European immigrants, it might just be possible to pull off. It's also worth noting is that Germany gets dismembered Morgenthau-style ITTL, prompting tens of millions to flee, so that's a huge injection of people right there)

I admit it's pushing the envelope with plausibility, but if everything went right, and taking into account all of that, I do think you could just barely pull it off.

The detail about the citizen population rising to parity with the serfs was a detail included by the commissioner, so I've done my best to come up with a justification for that.

There is, click on the link at the bottom of the post with the map.

That detail was also included by the commissioner. My guess is that the Christian holy sites probably weren't explicitly targeted, but might have been accidentally destroyed in fierce fighting as so many other cities were. Either that, or Draka went after Mecca and Medina first, and that could have prompted a reprisal attack on Christian sites. With Christian sites in Jerusalem destroyed, Draka doesn't hold back on the rest of the city?

The concern about how Draka's Christian population would react is valid - but in terms of intentional opinion, Draka was just on the verge of Pariah status as is.


In SM Stirling version the US captured British North America in war of 1812 and also annexed all of Mexico during America-Mexico war plus captured all of Central America I believe. Is the 500 million US population based on these borders.

As for Índia it stayed together after independence from Britain. Still same?
 
In SM Stirling version the US captured British North America in war of 1812 and also annexed all of Mexico during America-Mexico war plus captured all of Central America I believe. Is the 500 million US population based on these borders.

As for Índia it stayed together after independence from Britain. Still same?

The "roughly 500 million" (which I guess is somewhat closer to 450 million) figure is OTL estimates of the White population in the United States, Canada, and Latin America.

Since there is no Eurasian War here, I don't think India is necessarily fated to stay together (I'm still thinking about that aspect of the description).
 

Lusitania

Donor
The "roughly 500 million" (which I guess is somewhat closer to 450 million) figure is OTL estimates of the White population in the United States, Canada, and Latin America.

So now that you have finished this monumental map. What’s next?
 
This map was a commission.

Description courtesy of @Flashman

Taken from the Bureau for National Intelligence (BNI) World Fact-Book

This is awesome!!! Regarding population transfer post-WWII am I right to believe that the 21 million Germans wouldn't be the only one to "flee" to the Drakas. I imagine all kind of european fascist would make their way to Africa and it is quite easy to get there rather than to South America. Thinking of it I believe the twenty million or so Germans would be the first and largest batch with many more "urged" to go to Africa over the years. The Allied and Communist wouldn't really hinder and in most cases urge all the Germans and their own Fascists to go to Africa.

This population transfer coupled with the pro-natalist policy of the Drakas could really push the white population to 500 million. The transfer of that many Germans and with no denazification could generate a really interesting situation.
 
The map is pretty much done, just gotta do the key and the notes. Any advice/critique/criticism is appreciated.

DehgvnF.png
 

Lusitania

Donor
The "roughly 500 million" (which I guess is somewhat closer to 450 million) figure is OTL estimates of the White population in the United States, Canada, and Latin America.

Since there is no Eurasian War here, I don't think India is necessarily fated to stay together (I'm still thinking about that aspect of the description).
The crucial point is how India was administered. Was it completely controlled by British? If I believe correctly Stirling had Draka control Sri Lanka.

PS when did Draka conquer the Mediterranean islands as well as canaries and Portuguese Atlantic islands?:frown:
 
This map was a commission.

Description courtesy of @Flashman

Taken from the Bureau for National Intelligence (BNI) World Fact-Book

Due to server / image-host issues, the full sized map can be found here:

Oh one other thing how did Draka aquired the Iberian Atlantic islands, Sicily and Sardinia? Were they involved in World War 2? I believe the destruction of the Holy sites of Islam didn't really endeared them to the wider Muslim community. How is the relation between the Draka and their Muslim subjects btw?
 

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Today's Tomorrow Country WIP!

"Moribund democracy" is a unique political concept endemic to the timeline - the idea is that the general population is too exhausted to want the government to change, but too Canadian to accept totalitarianism. The result is a system largely defined by blandness, where fair elections result in single parties controlling governments for decades at a time, producing a reliable succession of leaders who are well-respected but never really charismatic. (Probably the best OTL analogue we have of this is Ontario's 42-year P.C. government.)

The tiny American states are a bit of a gimme - all 12 Rocky Mountain polities together add up to be only slightly more populous than Alaska. An upcoming population map will probably make this clearer...
 
[Draka Map]

This map is very well made in a technical sense, so I commend you for that.

I often feel uneasy about professional-looking AH maps like that depict evil regimes (including Nazi victory scenarios, longer-lived CSAs, etc) because the quality of the work stands in stark contrast to the fundamental horror of the subject material. Now, I don't mean to say that hateful ideologies are legitimized by this sort of thing or that maps depicting awful subjects shouldn't be made; they serve a purpose, both artistically and in a narrative sense. But there are some neofascist or white supremacist types who would unabashedly support the depicted subject material, and the idea of such a person solidifying or validating their ideology via seeing this map makes me a little bit nervous.

Again, I want to emphasize that I can separate the artist from the art, and that I'm not passing judgment on the intent or anything like that. Just wanted to express my thoughts. I hope this is the right place for a comment like this - I would be interested in hearing other points of view on the issue.
 
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