Unless of course you’re Canadian, in which case you’ve been annexed
Map Thread XVII
- Thread starter Upvoteanthology
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I used the Victoria II country colors, but look closely at the colors for Italy & Brazil.
As for the Horn of Africa, at first Germany went to war with Ethiopia for the Eritrea region, later on they would conquer Ethiopia itself & Somalia. (Which was unified at the time.)
Also, I admit I "changeownered" some provinces. As I hate border gore.
So a thing I've been working on, based on a random shower thought I had: what if, once a language died, ASBs transported some of its major polities to a virgin Earth?
I tried it with Sumerian, because I thought it would be an interesting thought experiment to see a world where the Sumerian Dynastic Period never ended, and the List of Kings kinda went on and on and on and on and on.
So a total of thirteen cities are transported: the five famous prediluvian cities (Eridu, Larsa, Bad-Tibira, Shurupak and Sippar), five important ones integral to Sumeria (Ur, Uruk, Adab, Kish and Akshak), Nippur due to its importance in everything, and three Sumerianate cities abroad (Mari, Hamazi and Awan). Basically - all cities that had a dynasty in the List of Kings before Sargon of Akkad plus Nippur are transported to this new virgin Earth, and the crown once again descends.
The world is now a thousand years into the new political system: While the Third Dynasty of Uruk was soon destroyed by Ur, which continued to rule throughout the period, it gradually weakened as people realised that the other cities were not quite what they looked like, and all but one of the Semitic cities has vanished and stopped giving tribute to Ur. Soon enough, Ur, while surviving, begins to lose influence in the region, to the benefit of Eridu, which is set to regain the crown as the Eriduan nobles determine that the vanishment of everything non-Sumerian is equivalent to a new Great Flood, and that now the Gods what the kingship to return to its original position. This system gradually evolved into Ur's supremacy completely cracking in the region, resulting in the rise of Eridu without it being able to fully topple Ur.
From there, a centenarian dispute arose between the two cities, with the prediluvian cities alligning themselves with Eridu in small city states, while the postdiluvian cities mostly continued to pay tribute to Ur. Eventually a system much like the rivalling leagues in OTL's Greece began to emerge, as Ur and Eridu became increasingly strong and powerful, with competition requiring them to expand beyond Kiengir (Sumer) and into now uninhabited lands. Naval technology was perfected, which led to the creation of small city-states in Arabia (fleeing persecution by the big two); rumors abound of even further colonies, created by the naval power of Kandigir, a small but fundamentally important island-state in OTL's Strait of Hormuz which acts as the middle-man in most stuff. Eventually, with Nippur having fallen out of Ur's hands and becoming a priestly state, nobody had any real claim to the crown: if either Eridu or Ur tried to take Nippur, full-scale war would ensue. Nobody wanted that, and Nippur maintained its uneasy independence, together with the small states of Sumer proper.
With cultures and religions rapidly diverging throughout the centuries as the two countries expanded off their small area, a massive change happened 1500 years or so after the inicial ISOT, when the religion in Ur was reformed and with it politics: the Fifteenth Dynasty of Ur was toppled by peasants, who determined the Kingship had descended once again into the hands of all. A semi-communal system was created in Ur, while Eridu remained ever more stratocratic and religious. The political dispute adquired great religious connotations too.
To the north and east loose federations abound: the diverse cities of Mari, Hamazi and Awan have been the only states to truly expand on their own (not fearing what both Ur and Eridu have determined forbidden kingships of their Gods Utu (in the case of the Iranian Plateau north of Ur), Enlil (in the case of the Arabian peninsula south of Eridu) and Kur (in the case of Egypt)), creating armed federations that are more interested in outward expansion than in Sumerian affairs. Technological progress outside of Kandigir is slow and painful, while languages have diverged in such a way that the Sumerian language family is now composed of hundreds of individual languages with barely any mutual intelligibility outside of the initial territories of Sumer (Kandigir and the South Arabian states have especially diverged from Sumerian over the centuries.
(For this map I tried to do the National Geographic-style boundaries with the colours instead of just black lines but I'm not sure it really did work out that well. What do you guys think?)
I tried it with Sumerian, because I thought it would be an interesting thought experiment to see a world where the Sumerian Dynastic Period never ended, and the List of Kings kinda went on and on and on and on and on.
So a total of thirteen cities are transported: the five famous prediluvian cities (Eridu, Larsa, Bad-Tibira, Shurupak and Sippar), five important ones integral to Sumeria (Ur, Uruk, Adab, Kish and Akshak), Nippur due to its importance in everything, and three Sumerianate cities abroad (Mari, Hamazi and Awan). Basically - all cities that had a dynasty in the List of Kings before Sargon of Akkad plus Nippur are transported to this new virgin Earth, and the crown once again descends.
The world is now a thousand years into the new political system: While the Third Dynasty of Uruk was soon destroyed by Ur, which continued to rule throughout the period, it gradually weakened as people realised that the other cities were not quite what they looked like, and all but one of the Semitic cities has vanished and stopped giving tribute to Ur. Soon enough, Ur, while surviving, begins to lose influence in the region, to the benefit of Eridu, which is set to regain the crown as the Eriduan nobles determine that the vanishment of everything non-Sumerian is equivalent to a new Great Flood, and that now the Gods what the kingship to return to its original position. This system gradually evolved into Ur's supremacy completely cracking in the region, resulting in the rise of Eridu without it being able to fully topple Ur.
From there, a centenarian dispute arose between the two cities, with the prediluvian cities alligning themselves with Eridu in small city states, while the postdiluvian cities mostly continued to pay tribute to Ur. Eventually a system much like the rivalling leagues in OTL's Greece began to emerge, as Ur and Eridu became increasingly strong and powerful, with competition requiring them to expand beyond Kiengir (Sumer) and into now uninhabited lands. Naval technology was perfected, which led to the creation of small city-states in Arabia (fleeing persecution by the big two); rumors abound of even further colonies, created by the naval power of Kandigir, a small but fundamentally important island-state in OTL's Strait of Hormuz which acts as the middle-man in most stuff. Eventually, with Nippur having fallen out of Ur's hands and becoming a priestly state, nobody had any real claim to the crown: if either Eridu or Ur tried to take Nippur, full-scale war would ensue. Nobody wanted that, and Nippur maintained its uneasy independence, together with the small states of Sumer proper.
With cultures and religions rapidly diverging throughout the centuries as the two countries expanded off their small area, a massive change happened 1500 years or so after the inicial ISOT, when the religion in Ur was reformed and with it politics: the Fifteenth Dynasty of Ur was toppled by peasants, who determined the Kingship had descended once again into the hands of all. A semi-communal system was created in Ur, while Eridu remained ever more stratocratic and religious. The political dispute adquired great religious connotations too.
To the north and east loose federations abound: the diverse cities of Mari, Hamazi and Awan have been the only states to truly expand on their own (not fearing what both Ur and Eridu have determined forbidden kingships of their Gods Utu (in the case of the Iranian Plateau north of Ur), Enlil (in the case of the Arabian peninsula south of Eridu) and Kur (in the case of Egypt)), creating armed federations that are more interested in outward expansion than in Sumerian affairs. Technological progress outside of Kandigir is slow and painful, while languages have diverged in such a way that the Sumerian language family is now composed of hundreds of individual languages with barely any mutual intelligibility outside of the initial territories of Sumer (Kandigir and the South Arabian states have especially diverged from Sumerian over the centuries.
(For this map I tried to do the National Geographic-style boundaries with the colours instead of just black lines but I'm not sure it really did work out that well. What do you guys think?)
D'Oh!
Well, guys, obviously they're wrong. Thanks for catching that!!! Will have an accurate map out soon :x
EDIT: New numbers are now up
No British Navy is great, but remember that France and Russia were generally the number two and number three naval powers in OTL until the naval arms race between Germany and the UK took off. Since such an arms race would be butterflied away by good relations between these two countries, Russia and France would probably have a stronger naval position ITTL.
Eliminating Serbia and Romania are essential for a victory for Austria-Hungary, but a stronger Russian war machine on the horizon will have an impact on the way this ATL war goes. Note also that it's five years later than the start of WWI, and that A-H is still a shaky multiethnic mess.
A post-war map is definitely something on my mind.
My idea was that Quebec sought a separate independence sometime during the American Revolution after some British policy blunders, and succeeded. With the British cut off from Upper Canada, they essentially ceded "Canada" to the U.S. as a goodwill gesture (plus they didn't want the Quebecois getting their hands on the territory). British-American relations were much better ITTL than OTL due to the ripple effect of this concession.
Well, the thing is there really isn't anything to cause anti-French resentment in America ITTL. However, a vocal German-American community could certainly give Germany a valuable voice in American politics. What the WASP elite in the U.S. will do is definitely up in the air.
I'm afraid I don't know enough about European royalty in OTL to answer that.
The President in 1919 would be a Woodrow Wilson-esque domestic reformer with non-interventionist tendencies.
It's not that more Black Americans live in Liberia than Native Africans, it's that more African-Americans now live in Liberia than in America (the whole concept of Liberia was much more successful ITTL).
Thanks!
It certainly would be awkward for Urrites and Eriduans, but with how important cities were in Sumeria I couldn't see any of the two moving their capital.
Given that most reichsländer are larger-sized, how should I divide up the lowlands? combining them looks a bit oddballs.
Skallagrim
Banned
If I may be so bold as to suggest the following:
This is definitely not the kind of division that foreigners and historically/culturally unaware Dutchmen often think of, mind you. Often, people suggest uniting Friesland, Groningen and Drenthe, for instance. This is idiotic. Groningen and Drenthe are both historically Saxon-speaking. Frisian is a different language, and in all these areas, regional languages and culture are still quite prominent. There's even a bit of a Groningen-Frisia rivalry. Anyway, enough about that. Here are my suggestions:
-- I've opted to keep Frisia separate, since... well, it's pretty much the most culturally and linguistically distinct part of the Netherlands in OTL.
-- The Saxon areas (everything north of the IJssel river, roughly) becomes one reichsland.
-- North Holland, South Holland, the better part of Zeeland, Utrecht and the non-Saxon part of Gelderland are fused into one 'Greater Holland'. This will be controversial, but linguistically, they all pretty much speak the Hollandic dialect of Low Franconian (i.e. standard Dutch).
-- Then we have united Flanders, including its historical claims on Zeeuws Vlaanderen (Zeelandic Flanders) and Frans Vlaanderen (Frenxh Flanders, i.e. Dunkirk and surroundings).
-- Next to that, united Brabant (simply makes sense: it's southernmost fringe is French-speaking in OTL, but I suspect whoever draws these borders cares little about the opinion of French people).
-- Limburg also gets a Francophone southern bit, mostly because have no idea where else o put that area.
-- Luxemburg is fully reunited, as is proper.
-- West of Luxemburg we get Wallonia, covering the area where the Walloon dialect of French is spoken.
-- And finally Picardy, which has its own dialect and thus makes for an excellent land all by itself.
(The thin pink line indicates the border between the Zeelandic parts of Greater Holland and Zeeuws Vlaanderen, which is part of Flanders.)
One way of doing things is Italy to do better against A-H ealry on, and get they territory claims ealry in the war. With this, there be on the homefront a lot less enthusiastic of the war. (With no scare of the A-H coming to town and getting what Italy wanted.) Rome can make a separate peace with Germany Austria-Hungary (With a lot of arm twisting.) and be merry, closing the Italian front for the CP. Maybe even Berlin can get Italy to attack France in trying to get Corsica, Nice and Savoy back.
For Russia...pull a third Miracle of the House of Brandenburg. Have the current Tsar died, and whoever replace him be a secret German fanboy and backs out of the war. It won't end well for him as it did not end well for Peter III, but it would be the key to Germany closing the Eastern Front without even trying, and France having a total metldown at Russia's 'backstabbing' them.
As for anti-French resentment in America ITTL, have Quebec push for closer ties with France, and away from America. This will in turn have the USA see this as France trying to worm it influence into North America. (That, or have a XYZ Affair and the Quasi-War take place along with keeping Anti-Freach feelings alive from the Federalists.) This, along with a strong vocal German-American community can be what push the USA to side with the German Empire.
In Egypt, is there any form of Pharaonism going on/that will take place?
Anything else to tell about the Nationalists in China?
Italy already controls Corsica, Savoy, and Nice, however, which makes backstabbing like that a hard sell. As for the war against Austria-Hungary, Italian war aims include not only South Tyrol, but also the Adriatic coast of A-H. Seizing that territory will cause problems for A-H, and will only hasten its collapse.
Seems too.... anti-climatic. Post-war Russia will definitely regret entering the war against Germany, however.
Quebec and American relations are ambivalent ITTL. Quebecois-French ties are seen in the light of American-British ties ITTL (there's an understanding of a general affinity due to a common language, culture, etc.), and France's general lack of a presence elsewhere in the Americas means that the U.S. doesn't fear French intervention.
An ATL variant of Pharaonism influences Egypt, though now it's also got a strong nationalist component.
The Nationalist faction is especially antagonistic towards Japan and Korea.
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