Map Thread XVII
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What is with those Serbian borders?! And what is up with Dalmatia and Montenegro, especially the latter having its post-Balkan Wars border?
The Balkan wars still take place in this timeline. The Serbian borders are just post-war Serbia and previously Austrian-occupied Bosnia. After the collapse of the Habsburg Empire Serbia was allowed to cede Bosnia, creating a kind of mini-Yugoslavia with a much stronger Serbian and Orthodox majority. Not sure if i'll add Dalmatia to Italy or Serbia yet, so I kept it being independent for a start even if it doesn't make much sense seeing that it's two largest cities are occupied at the moment.
If you have suggestions what to change in the Balkans please let me know! I'm not very satisfied with the current borders.
Since Croatia-proper is still part of Hungary, it would be logical that with a collapse of the Austrian Empire, Dalmatia would join with the rest of Croatia. They did claim it iOTL despite the two provinces being separated. Is Hungary, per chance, still Habsburg or have they been totally ousted with Greater Germany?
That amount of land might be just enough for the Hungarians to not grumble too angrily about Pressburg and Burgenland. They still will, but having a united Triune Kingdom might be just acceptable enough that they don't even threaten to go to arms. Though uniting it might mean the Triune Kingdom of Croatia, Slavonia, and Dalmatia might want to go its own way.Depends on how threatened they feel by the Serbs, since they went full blown Orthodox, which might be a problem for Croats in Bosnia.
A Yugoslavia without God's chosen people?
/s
I really like this idea! I'll definitely look into it. Thanks for the feedback
Yeah, the Hungarians won't give up Pressburg, the Kingdom's former capitals and second-most important city (and most important before Budapest took off).
If the Hungarians play their cards right, they'll end up actually letting the Triune Kingdom's autonomy as was agreed, and act as their protectors against 'Serbian aggression', however much of a threat they are. Maybe even support the Illyrian movement.
But hey, who knows, insane ultranationalists and Magyarisation might be too deeply-rooted already iTTL...
Croatia'a version is the Illyrian movement, which I believe predates Yugoslavianism as an official/mainstream movement/ideology.
Take that, Serbia!
I will suggest giving to Italy, more as a trade up (or at least an attempt to it) as seem that she gained nothing from the collapse of the Hapsburg Empire...and she is one of the big boys club unlike the Serbian, so at least a token will be given due to the various claim; or at least diving it like the OTL WWI treaty of London
Mostly, I can't see the Italians not moving in Trento and Trieste, at the very least, probably under the guise of "protecting Italians from the ensuing chaos".
My latest revision for my Kaiserreich-type scenario. I'm mainly concerned with how the division of Austria-Hungary went. I'm very sure Hungary would not simply allow Croatia to become a separate kingdom and lose sea access.
Off the Hungarians would have Serbia under their influence. I see them preferring to keep their thigh going where Croatia was in personal unoin with them. Anyways, Hungary would want Rijeka kept as a jointly administered port like it had before the breakup. Should also probably separate Croatia and Slavonic for this, and split up Bosnia and Herzovigina. No real reason for them to take Montenegro. Ahhh, and the Hungarians might have a claim that the Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria should be in personal unoin with them, as the Austrians claimed the land due to it formerly being in personal unoin with Hungary. Actually might be useful in those worlds where the Germans annex Austria, as Bohemia, Croatia, and Galicia could all be tied to the Hungarians through their monarch. Actually, joining Galicia to Poland might be wiser. The Prussians took a load of Polish land and probably got rid of the Poles, anyways. Having them move to Galicia so as to avoid Ukraine getting too much influence in the area could work out. Depends which people th Germans and Habsburgs want to be friendly to. Maybe also show internal borders for Egypt? A title used by their rulers after independence was King of Egypt, Soveirgn of Nubia, Sudan, Kordofan, and Darfur. Would make that area look less solid. And how did the Ethiopians get Italian land in this? I can think of a few possibilities, but they don't quite seem to quite fit in this scenario.My latest revision for my Kaiserreich-type scenario. I'm mainly concerned with how the division of Austria-Hungary went. I'm very sure Hungary would not simply allow Croatia to become a separate kingdom and lose sea access.
Well, I'll probably just revert back to my previous map for that. It's bound to generate some conflict between the regions of A-H. Basically, my Kaiserreich scenario is one where Germany's Mitteleuropa project falls apart, which allows its spherelings in the east to gain more influence and free reign. It's one reason why Ukraine is in a personal union with Galicia-Lodomeria, and de facto integrated under Vasyl's Hapsburg branch. Austria-Hungary in this setting hasn't split officially, but being run by a league of regent kings meant that the Emperor officially has no control over any areas outside the Austrian crownlands. As a result of waning central power, Hungary, Bosnia and Galicia-Lodomeria all drifted apart.
Also, why an independent Montenegro? I don't think the Austro-Hungarian Empire would refuse any prizes unless it's the crazy Serbs. At the very least, they'd be barred from union with Serbia.
As for the Poles, they're definitely going to suffer a lot in this timeline, with many being driven out of the German border areas into the rump state. The ones in Galicia-Lodomeria would try to lobby for union, but I can't see that happening with the Ukrainian authorities virtually in charge. At the very least, the less vital Polish-majority parts might be chipped away, with Ukraine holding on to the lion's share. I'll look into it.
For Egypt, I'll try to get some borders up.
As for Ethiopia... I really don't know who to hand them to. I do know that the pro-German monarch during WWI was overthrown for a pro-British one because of suspicions of him abandoning Ethiopian Orthodoxy for Sunni Islam. Other than that, I just don't want to have them remain in Entente hands, and the Austro-Hungarians would probably be unable to exploit any colony there properly.
On a side note, just checked up Galicia on Wikipedia and saw about The Petroleum Trail. Fourth largest producer of oil in the world for a while, caused prices to slump globally, but they started to tap out aruodn the Balkan Wars. I imagine someone can do something minor with having them be discovered later than IOTL, perhaps when more uses for petroleum could be found and give a boost to Galician industry. mix the Rusyn, krakovians, various Ruthenians, some Slovaks... Would make a fun little state. Just so long as the Poles inside the country don't try to clamp down on the Ruthenians, thus driving them into the arms of Ukraine, leading to the whole region being torn in two.
Montenegro wasn't exactly the best of prizes. Getting a pro-Austrian king would be decent enough for Vienna. Although getting a personal unoin with the Habsburgs and Montenegrins might give a small boost to the legitimacy of the Croatian monarchy, if it is not in personal union with anyone. Also would be a good way to hold a sword over the Serbian king) pointing out that with so many Serbs in Croatia (or the Illriyan Kingdom) that if they try to fuck them over they will be removed from the map. Or they simply keep Montengero independent, as suggested by diplomats IOTL, and have them get all of that Sanjak area that once connected Bosnia to Albania.
Plenty of fun things you can do with Ethiopia, especially since Egypt, Ottomans, and a number of independent Arab states are in play. I expect the Egyptians won't make any moves to regain control of their old colonies and ports in Eritrea and Somalia, and will have some arrangement where the Egyptian and Ethiopians bolster each other's legitimacy. Possibly the Germans and Egyptians help the Ethiopians building ports and railroads, and the Ethiopians help out shipping things to Equatoria though given the Germans got French Somaliland, and the French were adamant at the Ethiopians not even being allowed to make their own railroad if they got land to the coast (in the interwar period) the Germans might just focus on monopolizing inpmoorts and exposures to the Ethiopian heartland. I do find it odd the Germans took Portuguese colonies. Did the Portuguese enter WWI in this scenarios, or did the Germans simply strong arm them with the threat of going for more if they didn't sell?
Hmm... makes sense. I'll make it so.
I see. sounds good. :3
*takes a look*
Oh, oh dear. I forgot to revert Sao Tome and Principe. Cabinda was deliberate (seems awkward to have an exclave there), but on hindsight, I don't see the Germans getting that).
Ahhh, and one more thing. Just noticed the extra islands the Norwegians have been given in the far north. Delicious. No need to make changes there.
Considering what you've said about there being a larger Balkan War (though you aren't married to the idea), perhaps TTL Prince Mirko Dimitri Petrović-Njegoš managed to successfully be proclaimed heir-presumptive to the Serbian throne. The May Overthrow happens as OTL, but it ends up failing. Draga Mašin is still killed, however, causing King Alexander to enter a depression. He ends up voluntarily leaving the throne, with Mirko inheriting it. He ends up living a bit longer than TTL, so that when his father, King Nicholas of Montenegro, dies, Mirko's older brother Danilo would choose to renounce his royal claims to the throne, passing it on to Mirko, uniting the two kingdoms into one, by and large achieving the goal of uniting Serbdom under the Petrović-Njegoš dynasty. If you want to add a little cherry on top, you could push the Serbo-Albanian border to the Drin River.
Croatia'a version is the Illyrian movement, which I believe predates Yugoslavianism as an official/mainstream movement/ideology.
Take that, Serbia!
The Illyrian movement has been dead since the signing of the Vienna Literary Agreement of 1850 though, but that's assuming the Revolutions of 1848 pushed the movement into its grave, and even then the Agreement itself could've seen changes. Yugoslavism ended up becoming the more dominant movement for the South Slavs not only as a result of the passing of the Illyrian movement, but also the growing interest in Pan-Slavism within general Slavic nationalism.
That isn't to say that Hungary and pro-Hungarian Croats, especially those interested in the reunion of the Triune Kingdom, wouldn't be interested in starting a "Neo-Illyrian" movement in an attempt to counter and curb the growing interest in Yugoslavism in Croatia.
The Russians are pretty fragmented after the White victory, as you can see. Not in the best position to lay claims. The civil war never ended with the Bolsheviks... :3
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