Map Thread XVII

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by Upvoteanthology, Sep 20, 2017.

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  1. Zek Sora hi

    Oct 14, 2013
    the worst managed and yet richest city
    Into the Firmament: Sol System, 2300
    link for full-size viewing because even the second viewing level is too big for

    I'm headed to bed but I will answer questions in the morning.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  2. Achaemenid Rome Iron Age City-State

    Aug 24, 2016
    Ottoman Empire:
    Grand Vizier: "So, should we conquer Egypt or Ireland?"
    Ottoman Sultan: "Ireland. Definitely Ireland."

    Maori Empire:
    When you import Ottoman muskets and accidentally conquer half the Pacific.

    Also, interesting Gurkha Tibet.

    Sternberg's dream achieved!

    I might need a 24th-century orbital habitat's supercomputer to load this image. :p
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  3. Excelsior Time's arrow marches forward

    Sep 24, 2015

    Yeeeeah, there's no way I'm going to be able to see that without killing my laptop. It looks nice though.
  4. B_Munro Member

    May 28, 2004

    They used to rule all of North Africa, but lost it later: the real question is why it's easier to hold onto Spain than Egypt... how about it, Mr. Silverberg?

    (Huh. All of a sudden I realize that Robert Silverberg, judging from his name, may be Jewish. If this has ever occurred to me before, I can't recall.)
    Analytical Engine likes this.
  5. BMN Well-Known Member

    Jun 29, 2014
    Shouldn’t Upper and Lower Polands’ names be reversed?

    I mean, upper poland is down compared to the carpathian highlands AND is downstream of the major rivers. Should be lower Poland. Vice versa for the other.
  6. B_Munro Member

    May 28, 2004
    Sound logical.

    I was probably thinking of maps, but in this world South would probably be on top of the maps anyway, no?
  7. Skallagrim Not the one from YouTube. Different other fellow.

    Feb 5, 2014
    Very cool scenario, although I have to wonder how ultra-strict neo-Legalism could be the basis for a very successful country. It works as the basis for a war economy, of course (see: waaring state of Qin), but when the war is over, Legalism can no longer be justified by the emergency situation, and everyone figures out it's making their lives shit (see: the Qin dynasty lasting exactly one generation before being overthrown).

    Something that has "overregulate every single aspect of society", "death penalty for EVERYTHING!" and "let's bring back archaic practices that serve no purpose!" as main tenets could still function for a while, but too-rigid systems must either mellow out after a few decades (like communist China in OTL) or crash and burn (like the USSR in OTL).

    Is there an in-universe explanation for neo-Legalism's overwhelming success?
  8. Logothétes Professional Time Waster & Party Crasher

    Dec 6, 2015
    The Land of Deep Blue
    No, the real question is how they managed to conquer and assimilate all of Western Europe while at the same time failing to pacify bumfuck Arabia.
  9. Skallagrim Not the one from YouTube. Different other fellow.

    Feb 5, 2014
    Almost forgot to comment on this! Awesome idea. Our brains must be on the same frequency, by the way: I'm just now putting the finishing touches to a map that shows a vast empire with a Mandate of Heaven-esque ideology, which even happens to also include Persia and has a POD not that far from yours, except 'in reverse'. In my scenario, it's not a lack of Alexander, but Alexander living 23 years longer than in OTL. (I'll post it later. Let's contrast and compare! :cool: )

    Anyway, while my naming conventions fit the theme of "Alexander's empire lasts for a thousand years and language gets kind of weird", I think I can help with Persian names for various satrapies:

    Ionia = Yauna

    Caria = Karya and Karka are both given in various sources

    Lydia = Sparda

    Phrygia = Tayaiy Drayahya (one souce mentioned this; can't verify)

    Cappadocia = Katpatuka

    Cilicia = Kilikya and Hilakku are both given in various sources

    Armenia = Armini(y)a

    Assyria = Ashora (or Ashura; this varies from source to source)

    Babylonia = Babirush(a)

    Colchis = Kolkha

    Zigiia = no idea, but should be 'Zyx' in Greek (it's the region's actual historical name)

    Saka = Saka Paradraya

    Alania = Alanya, I'd suspect

    Albania = Ardhan

    [a whole lot outside Persia; no sensible guesses for those, I'm afraid]

    Shirvan = Shathrapan (a more archaic version of the same word)

    East and West Media = East and West Mada

    Susiana = Uvja / Uvya / Uviya / Uja / Uya have all been suggested

    Hyrcania = Varkana

    Daikos = ???

    Jul = ???

    Persia = Parsa

    Parthia = Parthava

    Dahae = Daha

    Turan = same, actually

    Kema = ???

    Karmania = Karman(y)a

    Sagartia = Asagartiya

    Aria = Haraiva

    Chorasmia = Uvarazmiya

    Gedro-Sattagidya = based on Gedrosia [= Maka] and Sattagidya [= Thatagush(a)], so some merging of those names? Makthagusha, perhaps?

    Drangiana = Zranga

    Arachosia = Harauvatish(a)

    Bactia = should be 'Bactria', but in Old Persian Bakhtrish / Baxtrish

    Hindush-Gandara = same

    Ferghana = Farghana

    Sogdia = Soguda

    Massagetae = Saka Tigraxauda

    [Can't really help you with the ones after that, I'm afraid]
    Damian0358, Taloc13, B_Munro and 4 others like this.
  10. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

    Mar 12, 2007
    UK, EU (for the moment), Earth
    As someone else who has done a Persia-wank map, I approve. :cool:
    Crying likes this.
  11. CtrlAltHistory bleeding heart

    Sep 12, 2015
    Yeah, China and Germany worked together to dismantle the USSR, of course. It was just a poorly worded expression I guess. The link to the previous map in the series is in the post, right above the map. ;)

    Yeah, it mellowed out a bit. The description was of China around 2004-2030, their ultra-strict period of "DEATH PENALTY" and "traditional practices." They, after Teng died in 2031, mellowed out a fair deal, no longer encouraging (though not abolishing) foot binding, and scaling back big-time on the whole "DEATH PENALTY" thing. Things are still harsh under Chinese rule, but not as harsh. The regulations are still everywhere, the exams still far too rigorous, and nationalism is still seen as a requirement for any "non-traitorous" Chinese citizen, but its not a hellhole anymore.

    It succeeds because of their extremely qualified "elected" officials, which, while democratically elected, all have to pass so many government exams that it's basically a small clique that rules China; it's large enough, however, that the Chinese citizens don't care enough to rebel, combined with the hyper-nationalism keeping them in line. Another factor in its success is near-constant surveillance of citizens, made possible from 2020-on by advances in technology. It sounds all horrible, but the average income is actually quite livable, and by 2040 luxury goods were common among China's people. The entertainment scene is vibrant, and China is considered by the LoN to be a "low-functioning democracy." Life is good for the ruling class.

    So it's not a nice place to live, but it's not a hellhole. It's very successful, especially economically and militarily. The reason I didn't mention all this in-post was because I was really focusing on the 2004 Constitutional Republic of China, not the 2040 one. :)
  12. YourWaifuForLaifu Smug Transgirl Anarchist (Nice Spooks, Nerd!)

    Aug 26, 2017
    That French Beach Under the Pavement

    Interesting. Does the Hellenic cult usurp Zoroastrianism or does it survive in someway?
  13. Achaemenid Rome Iron Age City-State

    Aug 24, 2016
    If Napoleon Bonaparte were cloned and placed as the leader of Germany in the 1930s: (ASB map, obviously)

    Vienan, CaliBoy1990, Blind and 22 others like this.
  14. Skallagrim Not the one from YouTube. Different other fellow.

    Feb 5, 2014
  15. Fed That Colombian Guy

    Sep 21, 2010
    Bogotá, Holy Colombian Empire

    Asorestan was actually the Sassanid name for the satrapy that controlled lower Iraq. It's a name derived from 'Assyria'.

    Yeah, this isn't really (sadly) a Persiawank. We need more Persiawank in our lives.

    Thank you! I really appreciate you saying that :)
    Crying and Analytical Engine like this.
  16. AmericanAdam peeeeee

    Nov 29, 2014
    New London, Capitol District, Nova Albion
    You are like a little baby

    Watch this

    W A N K

    russia wank GOOD.png
  17. Achaemenid Rome Iron Age City-State

    Aug 24, 2016
    Nice try, western spy, but destiny of Russia is to restore Soviet Union and expand to other planets.

  18. Troyer IV Instant Pirate - Just Add Rum

    Apr 3, 2009
    I support leaving this world. That's why communism chose me.
    Damian0358, Taloc13, Vendaval and 6 others like this.
  19. Skallagrim Not the one from YouTube. Different other fellow.

    Feb 5, 2014
    And here, finally, is that map I mentioned:


    The POD is that Alexander the Great [1] doesn't die in 323 BC. Or actually it's that Hephaistion doesn't die in 324 BC, which prevents Alexander's dramatic downward spiral. Alexander lives another 23 years, dying in 300 BC of disease and leaving his empire to his adult son. Obviously, what we see here isn't what Alexander managed to conquer. This map shows us the situation in (what we would call) 640 AD... nearly a thousand years after the POD. Over the centuries, the Oikomenem [2] has dwindled at times, grown at others, faced crises and changes, battled secession and absorbed new regions. At one point, halfway through its life-time, it fell apart into warring states for a brief period of intense civil war / succession struggle.

    It has survived all these things. It has evolved. As its founder intended, this great empire has witnessed the merging cultures and traditions. philosophies from East and West have been joined to each other. The old cults have been displaced or absorbed by the imperial cult of the Light Eternal, which preaches that all deities are mere avatars of a universal divinity. The chief mortal agent of the Light in the physical world is the Vanaksis. [3] The central position of the Chyselephantine Throne and its occupant in religious matters has in many ways been a glue that has kept the Oikomenem together in spirit, even when it was divided in practice. Since the Conquest, there has not been a time when a scion of the Argead dynasty was not at the head of this empire. The royal Pharram [4] is the very legitimacy of all political and religious matters.

    Not that we must assume matters have remained unchanged! Far from it: the wild interaction of countless peoples within a vast - and usually peaceful - domain has led to immense leaps in science and technology. The central government was interested in promoting cultural cross-pollination from the outset, and also invested heavily in good infrastructure and general safety for the populace. Alekshandros IV began funding philosophical schools, which gradually evolved into academic centres of learning and scientific schools. Over nine centuries after the Conquest, the tech level of this world is quite similar to what we saw in OTL 1900. Needless to say, some fields have advanced more quickly, while others lag behind, thus yielding a bit of schizo tech. Some things are at a level we saw in 1870, while others approach the advancements of the OTL 1920s. (Nevertheless, considering that it's 'only' the equivalent of 640 AD, we may conclude that this would has advanced quite rapidly.)

    Of course, nothing lasts forever. As the millennium approaches, a sense of fatalism grips the Oikomenem. For centuries, people have believed in the creed of "a thousand sunlit years". Now, those thousand years are nearly over. The Oikomenem hasn't faced an existential thread for over two hundred years. Skirmishes with the Kimmerians [5] over Tourika have ended in a negotiated armistice. The armies are becoming more of a bureaucracy than a real fighting force, and conspiracies thrive at court. Enemies abroad keep eager watch, hungry for a chance to tear away parts of the Oikomenem and thus enlarge their own fiefs. The Vanaksis, Philaleksos Argeades - the fourth of that name - is aged and of ill health. He barely governs, and it is whispered that his ambitious concubine Demetria wields all the real power. She has placed her own sons from her first marriage in positions of great power. The heir to the thone, the Megaradis of Vharata, is estranged from his father and resides in distant Palipoutra. When Philaleksos dies, the succession will be thrown into greater ambiguity than has been seen in the past five centuries.

    Even in the halls of imperial power, overlooking the Neilos River in royal Aiguptos, the dry wind carries a cool current. Summer is ending. The breath of coming winter in the air.


    [1] Or as they know him in this ATL: Alekshandros Kataktis. (That is: 'Alekshandros the Conqueror'.)

    [2] A word derived from 'oikoumene'.

    [3] This title was derived from '(v)anax', an archaic Greek term for 'high king'. It's used in the Iliad, and Homer-fanboy Alexander eventually adopted it as his title. The intended implication is that he is sovereign of the entire world, and king over all other kings.

    [4] Literally 'glory', but the world could be translated as 'authority' (in a political context) or 'aura' (in a spiritual context). The concept is comparable to the Mandate of Heaven.

    [5] Being of a romanticist bent, Alexander used the Homeric term for the region - "Kimmeria" - during his brief campaign against the Scythians. This exonym stuck, and the empire that later arose in the region even refers to itself by the derived name Kihmerriyar.


    Some more general notes: this is for a long-term project I've been working on for a long time. A Thousand Sunlit Years is meant to be a timeline based on the above ideas, describing the thousand-year history of the Oikomenem, from its inception to its ending. I have no worries about kind of spoiling the ending here, because that's meant to be known from the start. It's all about exploring the concept of a 'China-like' culture arising in Western Eurasia, with its own analogue of the Mandate of Heaven. I'm basing this on a number of theses that I want to illustrate by way of the TL, such as:

    - A vast multi-cultural empire that explicitly aims at being cosmopolitan will aid the development of knowledge, science and technology simply by virtue of existing;

    - The presence of such an empire will force potential rivals to consolidate ("empire begets empire"), which will lead to a rivalry of powerful states;

    - No empire lasts forever, and success is ironically the root of decline (since only challenges keep a culture vital and dynamic).

    The above hopefully explains why the map shows several large empires, and why I predict such a high tech level. All the surrounding states have extensive backstories as well, but I'd like to keep some mystery intact. ;)
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
    Blind, Thon Taddeo, Soverihn and 46 others like this.
  20. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

    Mar 12, 2007
    UK, EU (for the moment), Earth
    Coolness, but a key would make it even better.
    AltFuture likes this.
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