Map Thread XVII

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I've a quandary. I'm remaking a map I once made for my then-partner in part because their political persuasion has changed significantly since entering university (from socialist to market capitalist, ironically enough) but also because the original map is a steaming pile of crap, in my learned opinion. And in the process I'm unsure what to do with Iberia. I've two ideas for it; either have it be American territory (which I could somewhat justify with them being bought out by what is essentially a corporatocratic technocracy), something I've wanted to try on a map for a long time; or have them be some kind of communist regime as in the original map, which would add a splash of ideological flavour.

Thoughts?

Have it be an American client state/corporate subsidiary that's *communist in name only. Sort of a fun-sized Vietnam.

I really like the concept of that fuckhueg social-democratic Eurasian union you have on your original map, btw. Reminds me of how Russia from Decades of Darkness ended up.
 
_the_caucasian_pressure_cooker____map_of_chechnya_by_kitfisto1997-dbv7g9v.png


'The Caucasian Pressure Cooker' - Map of Chechnya

Just a simple map of an alt-Chechen conflict. Nothing too hard. :D

I was inspired by @rvbomally's map(s) on an Iranian-occupied Afghanistan.

  • The Soviet Union undergoes a more violent and bloody collapse in 1991, leading to more former SSRs and ASSRs seceding, with some of them succeeding and some of them failing.
  • Russia remains a corrupt, semi-authoritarian state that’s beholden to an unholy amount of influence from the military, crime lords and the state-owned corporations. However, Moscow is on good terms with the West as they supply them oil for dirt cheap prices - plus their military and political leadership is too weak to ever be considered a threat to the West.
  • Because of a friendlier relationship between East and West, the Arab Gulf States begin to feel backed into a corner and start pumping more funding and resources toward various radical Islamist groups, with the Taliban and Al-Qaeda being amongst them.
  • Osama bin Laden is killed by an American-backed airstrike on an Al-Qaeda compound in Sudan. 9/11 is obviously butterflied away.
  • The Chechen Wars start in a similar way to IOTL and end in a ceasefire circa 1998, with no armistice being signed. The Arab Gulf States, Pakistan and representatives of the PLO petition for the international recognition of the Chechen Republic, which eventually succeeds. The US, Russia and NATO are quick to declare it as a rogue state, however.
  • Yeltsin is eventually kicked out during the 1999 elections, leaving a weakened Russia to occupy the northern side of the Chechen-Dagestani border.
  • The Saudi-backed armies in Chechnya, with Al-Qaedan support, bomb the Moscow Metro in a similar attack to OTL 2004/2010 in 1998, killing hundreds of Russian citizens and tourists alike. Among the dead is the FSB Director and potential Presidential candidate Vladimir Putin.
  • After a series of weak and ineffectual Presidents, the Liberal-Democratic Party wins the 2012 elections in a landslide with full support of a reinvigorated Russian Army. The Russian military re-invades the northern half of Chechnya shortly thereafter, but is currently bogged down in the northern half of the state.
  • As of mid-2013, the Russian military and their Western backers haven’t made much progress, being bogged down due to poor infrastructure, lack of proper planning on the Russian government’s part and good old-fashioned corruption among the ranks.
  • The backers of the Chechens, meanwhile, revel in the ineffectiveness of the Western states to defeat the Islamists in traditional warfare. Iran and Iraq are using the war as a game of greater political chess as to keep their respective governments from collapsing. The rapidly fracturing Syrian government (albeit not at full-on OTL Civil War mode – not yet at least) under Bassel al-Assad is one of their other battlegrounds.
  • Meanwhile, the Taliban government of Afghanistan, remaining a neutral player in this geopolitical game, seeks to back the Chechens and other Islamists in the Caucuses, Central Asia and Western China, just to stir the shit.

 
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Isaac Beach

Banned
Have it be an American client state/corporate subsidiary that's *communist in name only. Sort of a fun-sized Vietnam.

I really like the concept of that fuckhueg social-democratic Eurasian union you have on your original map, btw. Reminds me of how Russia from Decades of Darkness ended up.

May well do; it'd be funny to see a perpetual Gilded Age America allied to an outwardly syndicalist Iberia, and I suppose it would serve the contention between France and America by virtue of the legitimate Spanish government taking residence in the Balearic Islands. Might go with that, though if there are any other suggestions I'd love to hear them too.

Rest assured it will reappear in this one, though the ethnic homelands are better researched this time around. It'll still be fairly optimistic, though more realistic about the cat-herding involved in guiding a multiracial and multifaceted mega state with some very conservative aspects to it.
 
I'm still working out the full details, but in essence there is a bit more cooperation between Rome and Berlin, the Italian military experiences a few more victories, and Vittorio Emmanuel is successfully assassinated (leading to an earlier RSI). All of this helps Italy stay in the war until the end of the war, and the Allies end up occupying it for similar reasons to why they occupied Austria OTL. Deteriorating relations between the former Allies and regional differences mean that the occupation zones end up remaining separate countries.

I see.

Is Italy still divided by ATL 2017? It seems like it.

The rest of the world?
 
I see.

What Britain and Ireland? How does those two look? (Besides the Anglo-Danish rule.)



Will you do a world map?
Britain is basically a continuation of the Anglo-Saxon Kingdom on a much larger level. The Great Heathen Army descended upon Albions shores and eventually, due to a number of factors, were able to unify themselves and conquer the Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms. Then with the turn of the millennium the upsurge in millenarian unrest disrupting the Celtic lands, along with the Norse settlements in Ireland and Scotland largely falling into their sphere of influence, they were able to expand into Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

The ruling Anglo-Danes have largely assimilated into English culture at this point. Politically they're a mash up of traditional Germanic government forms (things and power sharing) combined with the heavy centralisation of Anglo-Saxon England (as a by product of the conquests). They're an elected Monarchy with the King being chosen by the Witengamot which he heads as first among equals. There's a strong tradition of religious tolerance that is enforced by the fact that all the major religions have equal representation and because none of them want to start a precedent for religious persecution that could be turned against them they generally support maintaining the tolerant status quo (the fact that things are generally going very well for them as a whole convinces many that whatever Gods may exist are clearly in favour of what they are doing). Women also have better rights than they did ITOL as you don't have the Norman Conquest setting things back, although slavery is still alive and well. England/Britain is also the main vector through which writing has spread throughout the greater Baltic region with Anglo-Saxon script becoming the dominant form of writing in Northern, Central and Eastern Europe (Cyrillic never really develops ITTL) which is greatly aided by the fact that Old Saxons, Frisian, Old Danish and Old English were all somewhat mutually intelligible with each other. Economically Britain also has the twin advantages of a sophisticated taxation system inherited from the Anglo-Saxons and being at the crossroads of trade between the Baltic, Muslim World and New World. Generally things are looking very good for them.

A world map is a bit beyond my abilities, unfortunately. Butterflies have long since changed Asia and Africa beyond my ability to extrapolate things other than broad generalisations and the Americas are quite frankly alien at this point due to extended Norse contact.
 
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I see.

Is Italy still divided by ATL 2017? It seems like it.

The rest of the world?

I meant to put it on the image, but "present day" is supposed to be some time in the 60s. With the exception of Rome, I'm guessing the states will end up remaining separate in 2017.

I haven't done a whole lot regarding the rest of the world. Germany ends up divided, but East Germany ends up a little larger (keeping parts of their territory east of the Oder-Neisse), but beyond that I haven't worked much out. I have some vague ideas relating to Asia, but I haven't done sufficient research to come up with something interesting and plausible. I'm still mostly focused on figuring out how Austria and Czechoslovakia end up being occupying powers.
 
balibornia but also CSA.png

ATL about a British California
The world here is alright depending on the region
North America is led by the ADO(A regional version of members of the Oslo Pact) and shares a currency between California the USC(OTL CSA) Texas the Cherokee Confederacy and the USA and are all members of the OSLO pact respectively.Tensions were worse in the past but have came too a cooling point by this ATL 1980.Especially between the CSC and USA mostly due to California reminding them of the threat of Gran Colombia Peru and Brazil to the south.And after the Colombian invasion of the Yucatan in 1950 most of them have decided its a smarter idea to be hung together then hung separately.The recent Coup in mexico by the Colombian's has only made tensions worse with forces from all of the republics being placed at the Mexican border.All together the standing of living in most of these country's is akin to Scandinavia from OTL with a level tech in 1980 similar to our 2017 if not a little further ahead.


The Oslo pact was established in 1900 was established after The Great Catalyst War(ATl equivalent of world war except longer and much much bloodier.)Signed between the powers of Germany, The British Empire and her Dominions, California the USA,the CSC,Spain,Portugal,Scandanvia,Yugoslavia, Poland Japan La Plata and the Union of the Netherlands.

This was mostly due to the establishment of the European Entente of Austria.France,Greece,Peru,Columbia,Italy,and Russia
Europe in this Tl is a pot that is going to tip over any day now and with France's use of a Starbomb(this TL's word for nukes) on a rebellion in Morocco war seems that its going to come any day now.And with the French attacks on Algerians blaming them for there loss in the Catalyst war with most colonial subjects losing any rights they seemed to have.Germany and The Brittish look down on France with worry and with Spain seeming to be in the sights of the French and a French backed Coup in the Swiss Republic things only seem to be getting worse.Russia is trying to convince its Ally's to calm down due to a failed Military coup that lead to a purge of most Russian generals.The Balkans surprisingly have united and have been for a long time now Still uneasy of the threat of Greece has lead to a military build up with the help of California and Germany.


Asia is mostly dominated by Californian and Japanese interests with cooperation between British California Japan and USA force's after the heavenly kingdom seized power in china.Brunei and the Philippines incorporation into California and the USA respectively as Provinces and States is something that was more successful then anyone could have expected.Native assimilation was surprisingly efficient and with the help of Japan most of the population is multilingual in Japanese,English and there respective native tongues.Asia's standard of living is higher then OTL with most of it being at least akin to OTL Japan in 1990 and Malayisa's at the least by this ATL's 1980.The Capetown-Cairo-Baghdad-Mumbai-Saigon-Singapore-Hong-Kong railway has made trade much much easier.and with Brittian establishing their Imperial Federation by the goal date of 1990 hopes are high for Asia.This is undercut by the Rise of the Sleeping Tiger in the form of China with the establishment of a dictatorship in the country and the wide spread massacre of western diplomats and missionaries by rebels has lead some to fear french involvment. Surprisingly unbeknownst to them it is Colombian arms and weaponry being put in the country.




Africa is much more developed then OTL with a mixture of more accounting for cultural and language lines things are nowhere near as bad as they were in OTL. American Colonization of the continent began in 1840 after a successful negotiation of the Oregon Territory and Liberia was settled in the favor of the USA.Liberia has just recently voted for statehood and congress seems supportive of the idea.Germany has held a hands off approach in its territory on the Continent mostly leaving the natives to themselves as long as they don't attack missionaries and the use of Kolonialkrieger in the Catalyst war and in other places has earned the colonial's respect in Germany.The British has taken upon a policy of Anglicization on the Continent attempting to assimilate and integrate into the planned Imperial Federation teaching English in schools along with industrializing the continent and attempting to Urbanize it .Sweden and Portugal have used the German method to various degrees of success.


South America is a continent that has been on the brink of war for 120 years with border skirmishes between La Plata and Brazil being a constant fact of life.However Colombia is the strongest country on the continent with a government similar to {OTL Nazi Germany}Colombia's puppet Brazil is in much worse condition then they appear to be with unrest mostly being put down by Colombian soldiers.La Plata is in a state similar to OTL Brazil if only with a higher standard of living and a Constitutional Monarchy.The Queen is a military genius and is a asset to the forces of the Oslo pact and her Heir is a well known diplomat and has strengthened ties between Oslo Pact and La Plata. Even managing to expand there arsenal of Starbomb's.


The countries within the Oslo pact have social views similar to OTL Scandinavia and are mostly Socially Liberal Welfare State's with more of a focus on Military.Men and women in most of these country's have to serve at least 3 years in the military or humanitarian corp's respectively.The European Entente state's are similar to OTL Russia in 2017 in terms of Social issues and military strength with mostly oligarchy's in power.Most of the Oslo pact has had legalized gay marriage sense 1970 and have universal suffrage in most elections using a popular vote system in most of the north american states.Germany the UK and La Plata have systems similar to OTL British elections.The Space race is mildly different from OTL with the first Moon-base being established in 1970 by the Oslo pact. Clean energy has became much more popular and most Fossil Fuels are planned to be Phased out by 2000.The internet (Electronet is the common term in thisTL )is much more free then in OTL with Electronet Neutrality being established as a human right as in 1957.



Overall tension is high but people maintain hope for a better future



@Gentleman Biaggi
 
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It’s my first map so sorry for any issues:)
Concept-wise, it's great! A bit Brit-wanky, but that seems to be the intention, and I love me a good Brit-wank.
A few questions.
How did mega-Argentina form? Does the alt-CSA still have slavery, and if not when did they abolish it? How far-reaching is Californian power-projection, both hard and soft, outside of Asia?

There are only two things I would criticize it about:
1) When doing borders, it looks much better to have one-pixel-thick borders, with each pixel placed individually, rather than the jagged borders in your map. It takes way more time, but it's more precise and better looking, and has pretty much become board-standard for pixel maps. If you don't know what I mean, look at the available Worlda base maps' borders, or even their coastlines.
2) When you have a giant, globe-spanning Empire like your British Empire, internal borders are lovely! They put interest in the map and show the exact workings of an empire. Many empires that would otherwise seem space-filling are totally acceptable if their internal borders are shown. Or, you could do larger internal borders signifying "regions" or "territories" in a darker grey like your Australia and further separate them into provinces in lighter grey. Experiment!
 
Concept-wise, it's great! A bit Brit-wanky, but that seems to be the intention, and I love me a good Brit-wank.
A few questions.
How did mega-Argentina form? Does the alt-CSA still have slavery, and if not when did they abolish it? How far-reaching is Californian power-projection, both hard and soft, outside of Asia?

There are only two things I would criticize it about:
1) When doing borders, it looks much better to have one-pixel-thick borders, with each pixel placed individually, rather than the jagged borders in your map. It takes way more time, but it's more precise and better looking, and has pretty much become board-standard for pixel maps. If you don't know what I mean, look at the available Worlda base maps' borders, or even their coastlines.
2) When you have a giant, globe-spanning Empire like your British Empire, internal borders are lovely! They put interest in the map and show the exact workings of an empire. Many empires that would otherwise seem space-filling are totally acceptable if their internal borders are shown. Or, you could do larger internal borders signifying "regions" or "territories" in a darker grey like your Australia and further separate them into provinces in lighter grey. Experiment!

1.La Plata was formed when Brittian grabbed in this ATL equivalent of the seven years war
2.Califorina can heavily project power in parts the Balkans and east Africa they are also funding rebel movements in China and the like

In terms of borders my hands are quite shaky due to arthritis and other factors I have tried doing one pixel thick borders but they haven’t been to my liking

Internal divisions were actually the thing I was going to work on next actually :)
But mostly for Brittian lol
 
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