Technically it would be Leonidas, of House of Tarsites
Map Thread XVI
- Thread starter Upvoteanthology
- Start date
- Status
Eh...no, that's not the joke. There's a giant square in the key labelled 'The Purple'.
Witch0Winter
Banned
The Rebirth of Rome
The Roman Empire under Maurice was not restored to its former glory, but it did survive. Transferring an increasing amount of power to the rich provinces in the Middle East and North Africa, particularly in Egypt, the Roman Empire was able to survive and endure the perilous 7th and 8th centuries that determined whether the Roman Empire would live or fall. It lived, if only barely, with at one point much of the Middle East almost lost to the Arabian invaders before being driven back for all time. The Roman Empire would endure in the centuries that followed, ebbing and rising in its power over time, though always at the forefront of European power. However, despite this, Rome's power increasingly came from other sources besides Europe. While the Empire kept a presence within Greece, Macedonia, Thrace, and of course The Eternal City of Constantinople, the true power of the empire lay elsewhere. In particular, Egypt was the center of the empire, the axis around which the entirety of Rome spun around. Egypt was the breadbasket, the population center, the Great Bazaar writ large, and the location of Alexandria: the only city that could rival Constantinople in its splendor.
It is only natural, then, that when the Roman Empire at last entered a new Golden Age during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries, it would be Egypt and the Near East where the greatest fruits would be borne. It began as Rhomania came to be ruled by the so-called "Aegyptian dynasty", rulers who hailed largely from Alexandria even if they technically ruled from the palace in Constantinople. This dynasty took power away from semi-feudal governors of the themes who had gained increasing amounts of power over the centuries. They took this power and invested it into local government at the city, town, and village level, and emperors surrounded themselves with far more competent advisers under a system of absolute national rule and hands-off local rule.
This had many effects on Egypt and the Near East within the Empire. Egypt rose to ever-greater heights, becoming far and away the richest part of Rhomania bar the city of Constantinople itself, and the population of the region swelled. Commerce became a huge industry as the markets of Alexandria and along the Nile held goods from all over the world and Egypt itself was the great middleman for connecting Europe to Asia, shifting the balance away from Thrace and Asia Minor. Yet it was in the Near East where some of the greatest effects were felt: the Anagénnisi (Rebirth). Here, city governors, bishops, and powerful patron families in the great cities of the region began to use their newfound freedoms and power to transform the Roman Near East. Many great building projects were taken underway, ancient cities transformed over decades into some of the most modern and sophisticated cities in the world. Great works of art, music, and writing were commissioned in this time, and the best minds of Rhomania (as well as Europe and the Middle East) flocked to the region. In particular, Jerusalem underwent a transformation greater than any that had occurred since the city was allowed to openly preach Christianity, becoming a city of all the world and yet unique unto itself with powerful men from every corner of the Earth vying for just a seat at the table. The City of God would only be one of many in the region to be affected, but nowhere else were the works grander of the people working harder.
The Golden Age would not last forever, of course, but it would be one of the most notable of that period as the world began to breathe new life into itself and flourish across all continents. Rome, then, stood at the center of this rebirth and reaped the riches from it, finally living up to the legacy the nation had so long borne.
Ryan
Donor
the orientation hurts my brain
but seriously, nice map and nice scenario
is alt-islam limited to Arabia? and if so, has it become something of an ethnic religion like Judaism?
One thing: you forgot the ruling houses of Pontus and Arabia Petraea.
fashbasher
Banned
I'm guessing that is the exclusive domain of the reigning Caesar. Roman emperors often used purple as their color.
Great map, very geographical!
What basemap did you use, BTW? Might be more plausible to just butterfly the rise of Islam, but that's something of a matter of taste.Is Poland located in Hungary or does it just include Hungary?
Witch0Winter
Banned
Used an old Italian basemap from the 20s. As a rule I do not butterfly any religions. Just doesn't sit well with me. Same with my last map.Great map, very geographical!
Is Poland located in Hungary or does it just include Hungary?
Poland is in the Pannonian plain. The Polans ITTL end up getting driven south by several forces including the Magyars. The Polans get on better with the Bulgars and Croats, but don't like the Avars or Romans so much.
Great map, looks like something from a real historical atlas.
On the backstory, Egypt was already the richest province of the Roman Empire IOTL. In Justinian's day it may have provided more income to the empire than all the other provinces combined.
Witch0Winter
Banned
Islam is mostly limited to Arabia, yes, and is a rather ethnic religion like Judaism, yes. There are minorities of Muslims in Persia, Rome, Fez, parts of Africa, and even southern Europe, especially some of the more minor sects.the orientation hurts my brain
but seriously, nice map and nice scenario
is alt-islam limited to Arabia? and if so, has it become something of an ethnic religion like Judaism?
Not a traditional map that you'd expect to find in this thread, but a map all the same:
It's Europe viewed from Russia, and man, I actually had trouble telling what it was from just the geography alone at first
God Damn that looks awesome.
I like the map, but as a nitpick, alt-Morocco wouldn't be called Fez since Fez derives from Arabic and instead a Berber or Romance speaking state there would be called something else (probably Mauretania, or at least that would likely be an exonym). Fez the city is also of the Arabic period, with the material used to build Fez having been removed from nearby Volubilis, the old Roman center in the region.
Witch0Winter
Banned
That's fair, and I'll change it accordingly. To be fair, some of the little details like that were done at 4 in the morning on the day the contest ended so I was a bit strapped for time.
Really great map.
So what happens to the areas of the Empire after the collapsed?
What is the ALT Versions of the Catholic Church, and the Roman Empire Church like?
How are the Jews?
Did the Roman Empire ever reach the new world?
Last edited:
Wow, you're always surprising me with the quality of your stuff and this was no exception. I love the choice of projection: choices like that have a huge impact on perspective and implied power. One thing I often wonder about East-heavy surviving Roman empire scenarios is the position and diversity of Romance language speakers: are there surviving African romance languages?
Witch0Winter
Banned
Well, the POD is in the 600s so most of the old empire had already gone away as in OTL. The rest that was lost was mostly in the Balkans which, as you can see, had various alternate invasions of different tribal groups to create new nations on the border with Rome.
The Catholic Church here never really had the power that it did IOTL due to the way politics went (no real HRE or anything). The Pope quarreled with the head of the Roman Empire Church but never really had the power to actually order any Catholic powers to invade Constantinople. Due to the Catholic Church having relatively less power, though not powerless, local variants of Catholic Churches ended up being more pronounced: think if the whole Celtic Church thing applied to most Catholic countries. The Church of the Romans, meanwhile, has considerable power and prestige, headed from Constantinople and mixing with the Antioch and Coptic sects but still able to unite most of the empire around their version of Christianity. The head of the Church often has the emperor's ear even if not a ton of land, and has helped spread the Church of Rome throughout Europe to a larger extent than IOTL.
Jewish people are doing pretty well, which is good. They have a particularly large presence in the Holy Land and make up part of the region's unique culture that is hard to replicate in any other part of the Empire. Not only do Jewish people make a big mark on the Roman Empire's Rebirth but Judaism itself has a little golden age of its own with artists, poets, architects, sculptors, philosophizers, and so on making themselves felt throughout the Holy Land and especially in Jerusalem. There are a number of Jewish people spread throughout the Middle East and North Africa as well, and some in Europe, particularly in Constantinople, Visigothia, and southern Burgundy.
Now that is a good question and one I'll have to answer when I make a pixel art world map.
Thank you very much for the kind words.
I imagine there are several surviving African romance languages particularly within Roman African and immediately around it. While Greek gradually becomes the lingua franca of the Romans, many African Romance languages are going to likely survive thanks to localization and the vast areas of empire disconnected from each other.The Catholic Church here never really had the power that it did IOTL due to the way politics went (no real HRE or anything). The Pope quarreled with the head of the Roman Empire Church but never really had the power to actually order any Catholic powers to invade Constantinople. Due to the Catholic Church having relatively less power, though not powerless, local variants of Catholic Churches ended up being more pronounced: think if the whole Celtic Church thing applied to most Catholic countries. The Church of the Romans, meanwhile, has considerable power and prestige, headed from Constantinople and mixing with the Antioch and Coptic sects but still able to unite most of the empire around their version of Christianity. The head of the Church often has the emperor's ear even if not a ton of land, and has helped spread the Church of Rome throughout Europe to a larger extent than IOTL.
Jewish people are doing pretty well, which is good. They have a particularly large presence in the Holy Land and make up part of the region's unique culture that is hard to replicate in any other part of the Empire. Not only do Jewish people make a big mark on the Roman Empire's Rebirth but Judaism itself has a little golden age of its own with artists, poets, architects, sculptors, philosophizers, and so on making themselves felt throughout the Holy Land and especially in Jerusalem. There are a number of Jewish people spread throughout the Middle East and North Africa as well, and some in Europe, particularly in Constantinople, Visigothia, and southern Burgundy.
Now that is a good question and one I'll have to answer when I make a pixel art world map.
.
I see. Since the Catholic never got so powerful as in OTL, and the Roman Church did, was there a ALT Protestant Reformation? Or at least something more water down of the Reformation?
Was they anyone in the Roman Empire that wanted to try and take back the city of Rome itself? Was the idea ever popular, or just a far away dream?
The Rebirth of Rome
The Roman Empire under Maurice was not restored to its former glory, but it did survive. Transferring an increasing amount of power to the rich provinces in the Middle East and North Africa, particularly in Egypt, the Roman Empire was able to survive and endure the perilous 7th and 8th centuries that determined whether the Roman Empire would live or fall. It lived, if only barely, with at one point much of the Middle East almost lost to the Arabian invaders before being driven back for all time. The Roman Empire would endure in the centuries that followed, ebbing and rising in its power over time, though always at the forefront of European power. However, despite this, Rome's power increasingly came from other sources besides Europe. While the Empire kept a presence within Greece, Macedonia, Thrace, and of course The Eternal City of Constantinople, the true power of the empire lay elsewhere. In particular, Egypt was the center of the empire, the axis around which the entirety of Rome spun around. Egypt was the breadbasket, the population center, the Great Bazaar writ large, and the location of Alexandria: the only city that could rival Constantinople in its splendor.
It is only natural, then, that when the Roman Empire at last entered a new Golden Age during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries, it would be Egypt and the Near East where the greatest fruits would be borne. It began as Rhomania came to be ruled by the so-called "Aegyptian dynasty", rulers who hailed largely from Alexandria even if they technically ruled from the palace in Constantinople. This dynasty took power away from semi-feudal governors of the themes who had gained increasing amounts of power over the centuries. They took this power and invested it into local government at the city, town, and village level, and emperors surrounded themselves with far more competent advisers under a system of absolute national rule and hands-off local rule.
This had many effects on Egypt and the Near East within the Empire. Egypt rose to ever-greater heights, becoming far and away the richest part of Rhomania bar the city of Constantinople itself, and the population of the region swelled. Commerce became a huge industry as the markets of Alexandria and along the Nile held goods from all over the world and Egypt itself was the great middleman for connecting Europe to Asia, shifting the balance away from Thrace and Asia Minor. Yet it was in the Near East where some of the greatest effects were felt: the Anagénnisi (Rebirth). Here, city governors, bishops, and powerful patron families in the great cities of the region began to use their newfound freedoms and power to transform the Roman Near East. Many great building projects were taken underway, ancient cities transformed over decades into some of the most modern and sophisticated cities in the world. Great works of art, music, and writing were commissioned in this time, and the best minds of Rhomania (as well as Europe and the Middle East) flocked to the region. In particular, Jerusalem underwent a transformation greater than any that had occurred since the city was allowed to openly preach Christianity, becoming a city of all the world and yet unique unto itself with powerful men from every corner of the Earth vying for just a seat at the table. The City of God would only be one of many in the region to be affected, but nowhere else were the works grander of the people working harder.
The Golden Age would not last forever, of course, but it would be one of the most notable of that period as the world began to breathe new life into itself and flourish across all continents. Rome, then, stood at the center of this rebirth and reaped the riches from it, finally living up to the legacy the nation had so long borne.
Hi TroixStory !
You work is beautiful ! I just want to ask, what is the predominant religion of this Neo-Roman empire ? Is it Orthodox Christianity or Sunni Islam ? The map if upside down so I am assuming it is some variants of Islam in Egypt.
States of the Former Greater Germany, not showing areas annexed by neighbouring countries.
Countries which had territory ceded to them from the Former Greater Germany were;
-Polish People's Republic
-French Republic
-Kingdom of the Netherlands
-Socialist Federal Republic of The Danube
New republics established within the area of the Former Greater Germany
-Republic of The Rhineland
-Federative Republic of South Germany
-North German Union
- Status