Map Thread XV

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Yeah, it's not a nice scenario. But you can't really avoid massive amounts of ethnic cleansing when it comes to World War 2 and its aftermath :(

Er, it was the Soviet and their puppets which did the ethnic cleansing: the US and allies in Europe did not displace huge numbers of people in Europe to redraw borders, although they may have turned a blind eye to eastern expulsions. The only way a West Pomeranian Polish state like that comes into existence is if the Soviets create it, which means they aren't leaving.

As for the Iron Curtain, if I understand it correctly, it didn't fully emerge until around 1960 IOTL. In the mess of the post-war years, it's quite possible that millions of anti-Communist Poles could, and would, flock to this new state.

Again, if not at Soviet hands, how the heck did this capitalist Polish state come into existence?

After all, a similar thing happened IOTL, with the Germans from east of the Oder-Neisse Line fleeing to West Germany.

A country which actually existed, due to the presence of Western armies. For there to be a Capitalist Polish state, it would have to have been occupied by western forces, who wouldn't have created a Polish state carved out of Germany in the first place.


There weren't any Poles in most of Silesia either. Didn't stop Poland annexing the area and expelling the Germans there IOTL.

More accurately, the Soviets and the Soviet army essentially pushed Poland's borders to the west at the expense of Germany. Without the Red Army backing the move, the Poles aren't carving any new states out of NE Germany.
 
Bits of sub Saharan Africa like expanding on German Angola and creating a few other European exile states that aren't on the same level as France of Britian. Also adding more outposts of civilization in the lands where it isn't snowing year round but instead just snows most of the time. I'm thinking of adding a few Exodus Black Republics in the lands to the north of the United States. Then there is the matter of what Italy looks like after the communist revolution I have planned for it. I'm still unsure if I want just the edges of Italy to be consumed while a communist core survives or whether it will slightly more like the book where Italy is completely consumed, only in this case it wouldn't be by France and the Caliphate but by France and Austria.
I feel like you should mess around with Africa a little more; the rapid climate change, not to mention the aforementioned massive tsunami, would probably have significant effects on the states of the Sahel. The tsunami, for example, would have completely obliterated the Wolof states, Futa Toro, and probably more further in considering how powerful it is.
 
Er, it was the Soviet and their puppets which did the ethnic cleansing: the US and allies in Europe did not displace huge numbers of people in Europe to redraw borders, although they may have turned a blind eye to eastern expulsions. The only way a West Pomeranian Polish state like that comes into existence is if the Soviets create it, which means they aren't leaving.

Hold on there, I wouldn't say that Western genocidal acts are implausible, after all we have many timelines where there is a clear and innate desire to destroy Germany as a whole.

In addition, I can't say that the situation in post WW2 Alsace Loraine was all too... happy.
 
Thanks for the map as it will prove helpful in the future, and I'll fix Gabon and Ghanna, but the absence of the French in Senegal and the British from Sierra Leon has to do with the massive Tsunami that in the original book was created by a large comet fragment striking the Atlantic.
Yea, that makes sense.
 
Hold on there, I wouldn't say that Western genocidal acts are implausible, after all we have many timelines where there is a clear and innate desire to destroy Germany as a whole.

There's no indication this is so divergent a TL. (I would consider any TL where the US deliberately carves off and ethnically cleanses chunks of Germany to punish it as substantially divergent. Your mileage may differ. :) )

In addition, I can't say that the situation in post WW2 Alsace Loraine was all too... happy.

A fair number of Nazi supporters left with the German forces, but I am unaware of any large-scale expulsions or ethnic cleansing after WWII. Details? (Looking for "expulsions Germans Alsace Lorraine" tends to bring up neo-Nazi stuff, and I don't want to swim through that garbage).
 
Just a quick idea that I had. After WW2, the Western Allies and the Soviets meet in about the same place and time that they did IOTL, but come to a different agreement regarding the final borders of Germany and the occupation zones. Instead of an Oder-Neisse line dividing Germany and Poland, there is an Elbe-Spree-Oder line making this division; compared to OTL Germany loses more of Pomerania but retains much of Silesia.

Also, France, the Netherlands, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Italy, and Denmark all gain some territory from Germany as "compensation" for damage caused by Germany during the war. A Soviet puppet state of Austria is created.

The Iron Curtain is further east in its northern parts and further west in its southern parts. Not only is Germany divided into communist and capitalist halves, but Poland is also divided in a similar way, with a capitalist West Poland having its capital in Roztoka (OTL Rostock).

Berlin and Hamburg are both divided into four quarters:
North Hamburg in Denmark, West Hamburg in the Netherlands, South Hamburg in West Germany, East Hamburg in West Poland;
North Berlin in West Poland, West Berlin in West Germany, South Berlin in East Germany, and East Berlin in East Poland.

I also made a wikibox of West Poland in this scenario.

View attachment 328370

Landlocked Germany... that will end well. :p
 

Isaac Beach

Banned
I recently finished reading Robert A. Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and thought I might make a cover of it. So here's a WIP of that. 'Tis mostly done; still have to figure out the moon though, which will also be in. I took a few liberties; I didn't have China annex literally all of East Asia as they do in the book and I may yet make Japan independent, ditto for Brazil and Pan-Africa.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress - Copy.png
 
I recently finished reading Robert A. Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and thought I might make a cover of it. So here's a WIP of that. 'Tis mostly done; still have to figure out the moon though, which will also be in. I took a few liberties; I didn't have China annex literally all of East Asia as they do in the book and I may yet make Japan independent, ditto for Brazil and Pan-Africa.

View attachment 328445

The Philippines must be pissing their trousers seeing their current situation right now. . .
 
Er, it was the Soviet and their puppets which did the ethnic cleansing: the US and allies in Europe did not displace huge numbers of people in Europe to redraw borders, although they may have turned a blind eye to eastern expulsions. The only way a West Pomeranian Polish state like that comes into existence is if the Soviets create it, which means they aren't leaving.

Again, if not at Soviet hands, how the heck did this capitalist Polish state come into existence?

A country which actually existed, due to the presence of Western armies. For there to be a Capitalist Polish state, it would have to have been occupied by western forces, who wouldn't have created a Polish state carved out of Germany in the first place.

More accurately, the Soviets and the Soviet army essentially pushed Poland's borders to the west at the expense of Germany. Without the Red Army backing the move, the Poles aren't carving any new states out of NE Germany.
I really don't think it's implausible that the US and their allies decide to do a bit of ethnic cleansing. See, for example, the OTL proposal of a Bakker-Schut Plan, in which the Netherlands wanted to annex a sizeable chunk of West Germany. In the end this didn't occur, according to Wikipedia because:

"In 1947, the large-scale annexation was rejected by the Allied High Commission, on the grounds that Germany already contained 14,000,000 refugees from the annexations in the east, and that the remaining territory could not handle more refugees. Furthermore, the allies (in particular the Americans) considered it vital to have a stable West Germany in view of the coming Cold War."

Note that this rejection had nothing to do with the immorality of ethnic cleansing. It was simply for practical geopolitical reasons.

In this timeline, Germany would contain fewer refugees from the East due to them retaining half of Silesia, so the Allies could well consider that doing a bit of ethnic cleansing themself is more feasible. In addition, a capitalist West Polish state in Pomerania could be a bulwark against communism and possibly try to undermine the Soviet rule in Poland in the future. So that's why the U.S. and allies would support the plan ITTL.
 
I really don't think it's implausible that the US and their allies decide to do a bit of ethnic cleansing. See, for example, the OTL proposal of a Bakker-Schut Plan, in which the Netherlands wanted to annex a sizeable chunk of West Germany. In the end this didn't occur, according to Wikipedia because:

"In 1947, the large-scale annexation was rejected by the Allied High Commission, on the grounds that Germany already contained 14,000,000 refugees from the annexations in the east, and that the remaining territory could not handle more refugees. Furthermore, the allies (in particular the Americans) considered it vital to have a stable West Germany in view of the coming Cold War."

Note that this rejection had nothing to do with the immorality of ethnic cleansing. It was simply for practical geopolitical reasons.

In this timeline, Germany would contain fewer refugees from the East due to them retaining half of Silesia, so the Allies could well consider that doing a bit of ethnic cleansing themself is more feasible. In addition, a capitalist West Polish state in Pomerania could be a bulwark against communism and possibly try to undermine the Soviet rule in Poland in the future. So that's why the U.S. and allies would support the plan ITTL.

But its not in any part of pre-war Poland. It'd be a massive faff and I think the US would prefer it to be part of West Germany.
 
But its not in any part of pre-war Poland. It'd be a massive faff and I think the US would prefer it to be part of West Germany.
No, it's not part of prewar Poland. But if the US and UK think it's a strategically good idea to have an independent capitalist West Poland there, then I think they'd go for it.

And it's not exactly a massive faff. All you have to do is transfer governance of the area from the British occupation authorities to the Polish government-in-exile.
 
No, it's not part of prewar Poland. But if the US and UK think it's a strategically good idea to have an independent capitalist West Poland there, then I think they'd go for it.

And it's not exactly a massive faff. All you have to do is transfer governance of the area from the British occupation authorities to the Polish government-in-exile.

I meant the necessary population transfers would be a massive faff. The Western powers can decide 'this is poland now' and start displacing Germans, but they are entirely reliant on the Soviets going 'yeah pal, heres some valuable manpower from East Poland we are entirely happy to send over so you can set up your own competing West Poland.'

You'd just end up with Europe's biggest National Park, and the worst buffer to Soviet ambition ever.
 
I meant the necessary population transfers would be a massive faff. The Western powers can decide 'this is poland now' and start displacing Germans, but they are entirely reliant on the Soviets going 'yeah pal, heres some valuable manpower from East Poland we are entirely happy to send over so you can set up your own competing West Poland.'

Oh, well, I doubt that's going to be a problem. There are over 200,000 members of the Polish government-in-exile's army. IOTL most of them stayed in exile rather than moving to communist Poland; ITTL most of them would probably go to West Poland.

But the main factor is that it's only a few years since the war ended and the Soviets aren't going to be able to stop people from East Poland from going west if they want to. There's no hard Iron Curtain yet. And bear in mind that are a lot of Poles being evicted from the Kresy and migrating to the newly-annexed parts of Poland like Szczecin anyway; many of these people could just decide to migrate a little bit further west to West Poland.
 
thank_you_for_not_smoking_by_federalrepublic-dbcw5r7.png


After the declaration of the German Empire Prince Friedrich, the future Friedrich III (though in this timeline he will style himself Frederick I because the reason he chose with III instead of anything else is messy and convoluted), decides to quit his smoking habit in a desire to be a good example to the German people by not wasting money on too many luxury items. As a result of this he never suffers from cancer of the larynx and later ascends the throne as healthy as a man in his 50s can be. Furthermore Friedrich's son Wilhelm, whom we know as Wilhelm II, dies prematurely in a hunting accident when the hunting rifle of one of his mates accidentally discharges and hits Wilhelm's horse, which in shock throws down the rider, causing him to break his neck. This means that young Heinrich becomes emperor at the age of 49 after his father dies in 1911 aged 79. Otherwise stuff happens: the United States intervenes more aggressively in the Mexican Civil War, London and Berlin have excellent diplomatic ties, Russia gets enormous, and the Ottoman Empire is dismembered by European interventions and native revolts in the 1910s. But after roughly 40 years of peace Europe might be seeing a major war soon, the biggest since the Franco-Prussian War...

Please note that due to the immense number of annotations I've decided to not include them on the map itself. I'm sorry.

ANNOTATIONS

THE AMERICAS:
1) Newfoundland isn't a big fan of the deal they were forced to make with Ottawa over the Labrador border.
2) Ottawa meanwhile feels quite good about everything. Though quite a few people are worried about the United States...
3) A compromise between Democrats and Republicans lead to a united Oklahoma and Dakota instead of possibly dividing either of the two.
4) America's intervention in Mexico came with some minor territorial annexations. The recently admitted state of Arizona has profited the most, gaining a coastline at the Gulf of California.
5) The Republic of Sierra is an American creation, formed specifically to allow for a strong US military presence in the unruly region.
6) Still economically close to the US out of sheer necessity, but the relationship between Mexico City and Washington is quite cold.
7) Cuba finally gained independence from Spain in 1901 without foreign intervention, though America quickly included the young island republic in their sphere of influence.
8) When the Americans encouraged Panama's independence they offered the Rizal people American protection. Now San Andrés and Providence is a small US territory.
9) Still Spanish and highly autonomous.
10) Firmly in Washington's pocket after the US bailed out the struggling Venezuelan government.
11) Brazilian companies have essentially taken over Bolivia's mining industry.
12) Narrowly beating Argentina for the title of "most influential country of Spanish-speaking America"
13) Ambition, thy name is Argentina.

EUROPE AND THE MIDDLE EAST:
1) The Portuguese monarchy did not survive the embarrassment of the Berlin Conference and the snubbing of the "pink map".
2) The Spanish Bourbons are sitting on an unstable throne...
3) The Ulster question got resolved, for now at least...
4) Kinda bummed out that Berlin didn't keep its promise to cede back some bits of northern Schleswig.
5) Belgium, birthplace of Rexism.
6) Austria-Hungary is no more. The Habsburgs had enough time to reform their empire into four nations and they even managed to make Hungary semi-federal!
7) The union with Norway has only recently been dissolved. Quite close to the Alliance because Russia is scary and the Swedes living in Finland aren't too happy with St. Petersburg.
8) Russianization is the biggest fear of the people in Finland.
9) Independence clubs struggling to survive due to secret police raids.
10) Russia's favorite little plaything.
11) A proud ally of both Germany and the UK, though they aren't happy with the prospect of a war against Russia.
12) A shadow of its former self, the Ottoman Empire has become a Russian puppet state. The irony isn't lost on the now marginalized reform movement.
13) The Syrian Christians enjoy Russian and French protection, though nobody in Syria is truly happy with the current arrangements...
14) Yes, most Armenians are now no longer under Ottoman control, but Armenia is desperately hoping for autonomy within the Russian state.
15) The Emirate of Gazira just wants nothing to do with anyone anymore. Definitely hates the Kurds.
16) The complex nature of the Kurdish state baffles most European orientalists, especially since it has also managed to integrate the resident Assyrian minority.
17) Persia would like to be neutral but the British just stick around...
18) The House of Rashid has managed to unite central and eastern Arabia, though the Hedjaz still remains out of their reach.
19) Muscat and Oman was integrated into the Aden province of the Indian Raj and divided in two for "easier administration".

ASIA AND THE PACIFIC:
1) Kinda happy they dodged the Russian bullet.
2) Russian Turkestan is a very strategic possession, though also a costly one.
3) Altishahr is an important stop for Russo-Chinese trade.
4) Mongolia swiftly followed the Tibetans when the Qing collapsed.
5) Indian nationalism is slowly becoming a force to be reckoned with.
6) The Holy Duke of Yen now resides no longer in Qufu but rather Nanking.
7) The Liaodong peninsula was ceded to Japan together with Taiwan, a massive humiliation for the declining Qing regime.
8) The loss of most of Manchuria was another aspect of the Qing decline.
9) An opportunistic ally of the Japanese and a quick learner, too.
10) Filipino revolutionaries found ideological allies in Hong Kong and Tokyo, and ultimately sided with the Japanese instead of the British.
11) Mindanao is a chaotic place.
12) When Spain had lost the Philippines Micronesia was no longer desirable to keep as a colony. Thankfully Belgium was interested.
13) It's my favorite alternate history cliche, you know?
14) Still fell to the Americans, despite the relatively early POD.
15) The bickering between the French, Americans, and British over these small islets was more serious than you'd think.

AFRICA:
1) Almost became Spanish, which would've been the ultimate humiliation for Morocco.
2) A collection of tiny desert statelets under French protection that primarily serves as a buffer for Senegal.
3) The French Sahara is run by the French military due to a lack of a permanent population.
4) Almost killed the concept of a Franco-Italian alliance.
5) Still ended up in Italian hands, somehow.
6) Gained formal independence just a year ago after being a British protectorate for a while.
7) Upper Senegal is the second-most important region of French West Africa.
8) Kamerun is Germany's cash cow in Africa, though that comes at the cost of native lives...
9) Equatorial Guinea, because Spain just had some islands lying around.
10) The Belgian Congo is hell on earth for the native population and a seemingly infinite money printer for Belgium.
11) Very proud, quite poor, and it hates the French and Italians. So naturally it leans pro-Alliance.
12) The German treaties with the local Somali emirs and sultans have ended and all of Somaliland is now under direct colonial administration.
13) Britain's Great Lake protectorates are fascinating British naturalists.
14) Pretty much the only real point of contention between London and Berlin...
15) Bechuanaland looks a bit different than what we're used to.
16) The Boers of Transvaal hate life, the British, and the potential need to ally themselves with the French of all people in one last attempt at "liberty".
 
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