Map Thread XV
- Thread starter rvbomally
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Cool, love your work. It was cool seeing your map in the recent video on Japan during the war.yep, another commission
It's pretty exciting for me to see them as well haha, though I do protest to their choice of topographic colour; I had originally submitted a few different colour schemes but they were adamant about the one they wanted me to use.
Fixed now.
The map is very beautifull, but Italy get basically OTL (minus some part of South Tyrol...and the treaty final demarcation line was created for obtaining the best defensive line possible, aim that will still exist with the A-H empire still existing)border it's difficult to believe expecially for Trieste, as it's basically left the city an economic husk and very hard to defend, as the rest of the italian border.
The Morgan line or at least the entire territory of OTL Trieste Free Territory will be more credible...and even that the italian delegation will be really (and i mean really) pissed off to be given just the spare changes and will demand (not request but demand) other compensation
US states divided across lines of latitude, + some extra states just because, and one-word names
edit: please stop liking this, this took no effort
edit 2: there are much better maps with actual ideas you could spend your time liking instead. this is barely above a shitpost, it takes the bare minimum of effort
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The trouble for the Italians ITTL is that the other powers don't really care about what Italy wants. They're seen as hangers-on who joined the bandwagon late on purely for land, as such they're only given ethnically Italian land, as you say they are not happy, not happy at all, and this will lead to Italy becoming a revanchist and ITTL's version of fascist state before long. As I mentioned, the focus of the powers is really on preventing Germany being powerful again and the Italian grant is simply to 'live up to' their promises of land, though its more than questionable if they actually fulfil that promise with this territory.
Oh ok, still the ethnic land also mean more Istria and OTL they cared enough for what Italy wanted to not taking seriously A-H peace feeler due to their refuse to give Italy land and whatever they seen Italy is irrilevant she is still an allied Great Power and without as serious Wilsonian influence they hold she count much more that Serbia or others (plus Wilson anti-italian stance existed more due to the destruction of A-H and his favorable way of Jugoslavia, in this situation it will be the contrary), not only that but the OTL border was done for specific reason that here doesn't apply.
Finally...no, Italy becoming a fascist state is not automatically whatever diplomatic humiliation will exist, with a much shorter war, no caporetto, no bolshevick revolution; revanchist? Sure but fascist is not a must and dividing Germany is not that simple and i doubt that Germany can accept this and will probably figth to the end and the UK will never go for that plan as it will make the balance of power to skewed in France favor and if this still happen, well it will start to support all other powers
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I don't really know what to say to the first segment, you clearly would like to see Italy as big as possible and that's fine but things are different in this TL. As you say, the OTL border was done for specific reasons that here don't apply.
As for the second part:
1. The War is not 'much shorter', Franz Josef II throws in the towel in late 1917, but Germany carries on fighting until midway through 1918 and caves in after the Hindenburg line is breached by a combined effort from the western allies. Starvation has set in among the civilian population, there is widespread mutinies, think Kiel Mutiny but more of them and lasting longer, and public opinion has turned against the war. Russia, having not experienced the revolution, eventually overwhelms German defences in Poland as German wlllpower and manpower is stretched to the limit. The Germans are furious with the treaty but the situation is approaching end of WWII levels.
2. I agree it is not easy to divide Germany, it is done by force and the Germans are not happy at all, they have to comply (for now) as they have run out of men and resources , but reunification is very likely.
3. Of course fascist Italy is not inevitable, but this isn't the 'fascism' of OTL, in essence its just a sort of 'Rome Restored Movement' in Italy. I.e. heavily militaristic, revanchist and based on the ideals of Rome. Pretty similar, but not necessarily fascism. Given that TTLs fascism actually originates in the A-H Federation, it is not surprising that Italy would not adopt fascism ITTL, just a system that pretty similar.
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No, i would like to see a border that make sense and the OTL post WWII border that's in that map doesn't make any sense; not in etnic, economical or military sense and it's very hard that any goverment will have accepted.
The war for Italy has been much shorter and will end with the cessation of hostilities with A-H; that's because the Entente can't have both way as they can't throw her away (diplomatically speaking) and expecting that she will continue fight so it's much of a catch 22.
In poor words, sure both paris and London can easily don't give a damn about Itally interest and what promised to her...on the other side if this happen, Rome is entitled to laugh loudly at any request of send troops
Part of my Poland Can Into Space timeline:
The partition of Palestine is the planed devision of the eastern part of the Suez Palestine UN territory. In return for giving the Jews a major piece of land. The UN will get the option to purchase a Nukes and nuclear technology from Israel. I'm using toaster colors.
The partition of Palestine is the planed devision of the eastern part of the Suez Palestine UN territory. In return for giving the Jews a major piece of land. The UN will get the option to purchase a Nukes and nuclear technology from Israel. I'm using toaster colors.
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The point of the border isn't per se to make sense (that is, to make sense in terms of what the Italians want). As he said, in his TL the allies had the same (if not greater) disdain for Italy, and they also wanted to maintain the balance of power by keeping A-H intact. That's two reasons for them not to get it, and let me give you a third: there was time for Caporetto to happen, but not Vittorio Veneto, meaning the Italians would be ending the war at a net significant loss of territory. Even if Caporetto didn't happen (I'm not sure about the exact dates of his TL) then the war is ending with marginal military success of Italian forces that vastly outnumbered the Austrians they fought. Even if the Allies were inclined to support larger Italian claims, their contribution to the war effort hardly even warrants giving them Trieste (see: 12 Battles of the Isonzo)
Well not considering that the allies opinion of Italy seem just them taking the Austrian opinion for no reason and no Caporetto not happened due to both the timing and the fact that Russia has never signed a separate peace the border (and it's the third time that i said that) don't make sense because it's basically the OTL post-wwII map of Italy put with some of South Tyrol given back to A-H and this really hard to believe anyone will go for it.
As said in the earlier post if the war with Germany has not ended in earlier 1917 but continued till mid 1918 there is even less reason for screwing up Italy due to need to soldiers; otherwise i doubt that any goverment in Rome will continue the very costly (in blood and treasure) war effort for the pretty face of the Entente, so or the italians get more or they are out of the war and will not give any more contribution (and i will just note that the total Austrian casualities for the the Italian front in OTL were around the 2.000.000 and it's not that the rest of the Entente till that moment can say to have done much better, so i don't really see them looking down the italian).
The italian contribution at the war, till that moment has been saving the Serbian Army and keeping a lot of Austrian and German troops occupied, plus blocking any possibilty of the austrian navy to sortie in the mediterrean
As said in the earlier post if the war with Germany has not ended in earlier 1917 but continued till mid 1918 there is even less reason for screwing up Italy due to need to soldiers; otherwise i doubt that any goverment in Rome will continue the very costly (in blood and treasure) war effort for the pretty face of the Entente, so or the italians get more or they are out of the war and will not give any more contribution (and i will just note that the total Austrian casualities for the the Italian front in OTL were around the 2.000.000 and it's not that the rest of the Entente till that moment can say to have done much better, so i don't really see them looking down the italian).
The italian contribution at the war, till that moment has been saving the Serbian Army and keeping a lot of Austrian and German troops occupied, plus blocking any possibilty of the austrian navy to sortie in the mediterrean
Yes and yes, also a bit of Albania and Croatia.... and all that under an Italian Prince no less
Red Orm
Banned
Yes and yes, also a bit of Albania and Croatia.... and all that under an Italian Prince no less
>italian prince
>where is the puke emoji when you need it
But really, those parts of Croatia should really be part of Bosnia, honestly
Why are those two islands in green? And absolutely gorgeous map, by the way. Just really appealing to the eye.- Status