Map Thread XV

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I feel a bit inadequate posting this after @Camelopardalim 's spectacular work, but here you guys are. It's a world in which the Christian Right came to power in the 1970s, and they soon devolved into a standard isolated, corporatist, fascist dictatorship. The Soviet Union and China have a sort of cold war going on, but their power doesn't stretch over the entire world, and there are around six or seven power blocs of significance in opposition to them (and each other). The year is 2028, fifty years since the first Christian Right leader was elected. I'm leaving that part of it intentionally vague.

What's up in Utah? I assume some sort of conflict arose between them and the new leadership, since despite them being Christian there's a lot of hate for them in the evangelical community?
How did Japan and India end up like they are? Denmark, too? I was under the impression that Denmark was pretty opposed to the Soviets during OTL Cold War.
Other things I found intriguing: Austria and Germany unified. Divided Belgium. Bloc in South-West Africa. Australia, but not New Zealand or any nearby territory, falling under US influence. Cuba in the Brazil sphere and not the Soviet.
 

Jcw3

Banned
I see.

What is up with Utah, that part of the Dakotas and Mexico?

What is life like in the USSR, Warsaw Pact, China, and Western Europe?

How is the Brazilian and North African Blocs holding up?

Utah's an autonomous Mormon state. The evangelicals didn't want them having too much of a say. The Dakotas are an Indian resistance group that were getting uppity. Mexico was the target of an American distraction campaign when the regime was going through poor economic times, and there's still a large military presence.

Unpleasant for the former three. Internet's around, but heavily regulated by the state. Your degrees of suffering may vary. Europe is a lot more conservative, a lot more isolated, a lot more militaristic and paranoid.

They're doing fine. The Santiago Compact is doing excellently, as a matter of fact. Brazil has dreams of beating America as the third strongest power in the world, but first they have to beat Europe and India.

Speaking of Israel, isn't supporting Israel a big thing for the Christian Right? (Admittedly, I'm not sure that was the case in the 1970s, and their evolution certainly will have been different than OTL...)

Washington sent them some guns, but otherwise could give a damn about them. By and large, they probably care more about the whites in South Africa than the Jews ITTL. Non-Christians and non-Whites are not high on Washington's give-a-damn list.

What's up in Utah? I assume some sort of conflict arose between them and the new leadership, since despite them being Christian there's a lot of hate for them in the evangelical community?
How did Japan and India end up like they are? Denmark, too? I was under the impression that Denmark was pretty opposed to the Soviets during OTL Cold War.
Other things I found intriguing: Austria and Germany unified. Divided Belgium. Bloc in South-West Africa. Australia, but not New Zealand or any nearby territory, falling under US influence. Cuba in the Brazil sphere and not the Soviet.

No, they're just autonomous and pretending the rest of the world doesn't exist.

Japan: After the US withdrawal from the rest of the world in the late 80s to early 90s, Korea sort of found itself under Chinese influence. The Kims were knocked off and replaced with a more pliable military dictatorship, and the South is technically under that government, but with a high degree of autonomy. Japan is highly independent, but under Chinese economic domination.
India: India was initially aligned with the Soviets loosely, but when tensions with Pakistan flared up, and both started to work on nuclear programs, they were threatened by Moscow and Beijing, who promised retaliation if they went further. India was sanctioned quite heavily by both powers (Pakistan, with a border with the USSR, however difficult it would be for Moscow to get there, gave in almost immediately). This has put them in a rather bad spot in the modern day, especially with powers opposed to New Delhi being sponsored by both communist powers. Eventually, in the 2010s, a sorta-kinda Naxalite government came to power in India, and now the Soviets and Chinese are having a political proxy war there.
Denmark: A socialist government came to power in mostly democratic elections, and they didn't appreciate the EU's demands for ten percent of their budget to be spent on the military, and other such things. Dengress (Denmark's Egress) was largely a surprise to most foreign observers.
Austria/Germany: As the EU gets closer, so do its member states.
Belgium: As the EU gets closer, some people realize they just don't like each other, and maybe it's best that they get separate rooms. Brussels is mostly internationalized by now. Lot of American expats/refugees (depends on who you ask).
West African Community: Ghana's gotten a lot richer, mostly thanks to offering itself up as a place for wealthy black Americans who were feeling uncomfortable in the new regime, and because of luck and smarter investing. They've formed something similar to the OTL EU in their backyard.
Australia: Fell down the same rabbit hole as America. New Zealand's still democratic and secular, and trying to pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist.
Cuba: The Soviets forgot about the Americas when the US stopped being a problem and China became their biggest problem, and so Cuba, worried that America would turn them into another foreign adventure, sought out the Santiago Compact for assistance.
 
Hmm. There has been a certain amount of Mexico-wanking here of late: not that I mind a Mexico-wank per se, but Mexico gets too strong too close to the POD, when it needs quite a bit of time to work out all the problems the Spanish colonial heritage saddled it with. But the SW staying part of Mexico or at least (in the case of California) not joining the US isn't that implausible even without a Mighty Mexico in the given situation. Much of the US drive to conquer the SW came from the slave states (the founders of US Texas were slaveowners), with the slave power weakened early on there would be less of a push to expand, and aside from California, much of the area wasn't very appealing for farmers or plantation owners, not to mention rich in hostile Indians. (I say this as a New Mexican: it's still a bit of an empty space between the Sierras and west Texas).

On the other hand, there's no sectional paralysis over expansion, and New England whalers would love California's ports.
 
On the other hand, there's no sectional paralysis over expansion, and New England whalers would love California's ports.

San Francisco Bay for sure. Jackson wanted to buy Mexico above the 36th parallel during his tenure in office since SF Bay was the main port Yankee whalers used, and even the town of SF itself (not the 1776-founded mission) essentially got populated primarily by New Englanders pre-Gold Rush.
 
This map is based from Timeline-191. I decided to do a quick representation of the Union and Confederate battle lines during The Great War. Please comment.

I figure this is at some point in late 1915-early 1916? Overall I like it, though I don't figure Owensboro and Paducah would hold out for an entire year. Louisville, maybe: I don't recall off the top of my head how long it was besieged in the books, but I imagine it would be loaded for bear whatever the eventuality.

I take issue with the speed of the US advance in the east. Not only is it rough country which favours the defender, but it's the supply of a whole heap of coal valuable to the CS war effort. That said, TL-191 is pretty inherently ASB anyhow, and I'm a little biased based upon the maps I made for my own TL - good job all in all!
 
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The world by 1560


By The Grace of Our Lord

I'm still researching more in depth of the 1500's and 1600's. The other day I wanted to do something where England remains Catholic to present day, but I also felt like I wanted Britain to have more ties to Spain and Portugal though. Criticism and suggestions are welcomed PM me if you have any suggestions.

I also borrowed some of these ideas from this thread. I like to thank all who posted on that thread for the plenty of great ideas. I do feel a bit ashamed that I had to used a lot of the beginning of the thread in this one-shot scenario, but if I had not I probably would of been unable to even now where to start or research on what possibilities of how or which English monarch marries which Spanish monarch. Though I did made it up to you all, by having Aragon separate from Spain again, Scotland never becoming apart of England, and English and Welsh still remaining Catholic to present day.

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Edward of Middleham, King Richard III's only son, survives and lives longer than in OTL. He does get sick, but he manages to survive until age of 50. In 1480, Richard III later begins negotiations with the Kingdom of Spain to have his son marry either Isabella of Aragon or Joanna of Aragon. Richard III really hopes that they pick Isabella of Aragon, but they instead chosen Joanna which disappointed him. Meanwhile the Queen of England, Anne Neville dies resulting in Richard III becoming a widow. He then makes agreement with the Portuguese royals in which they agree to have the English king marry Infanta Joanna of Portugal, if he deals with the pretender of the throne, Henry Tudor.

Richard III of England later battles the Tudorists in a gruesome battle where both sides suffered heavy causalities but Richard manages to win against Henry Tudor. Instead of him having Henry Tudor executed he makes a offer with him allowing Henry Tudor to become the Earl of Richmond in which Henry agrees to.

By 1486, Infanta Joanna of Portugal is wedded with Richard III of England in London, meanwhile her cousin the Duke of Beja and Viseu, would later marry the English king's cousin, Elizabeth of York. Later in the year the new queen Joanna announces her pregnancy and the marriage treaty between England and Spain is agreed to. Thus the young man Edward of Middleham becomes the young husband to Isabella of Aragon. The following year of 1487, Prince John of England is born resulting in Richard's mood lightening up.

Skip forward to 1488, the King of England wars against the Kingdom of France and is able to be successful in capturing coastal towns and occupying the French city of Calais. England's interest in France did grow a bit, but not as much as many had hope for unfortunately. He only manages to make agreement of a 20 year ceasefire instead and tried to propose Charles VIII of France to marry one of his daughters, Princess Cecily, but the French king declined the offer for not wanting to have a English man or woman in the French bloodline. Ironically months later the French king makes a marriage treaty with the Scottish in which they to have Charles VIII marry one of the Scottish princesses. This of course makes more bitterness between the English and French.

Then by 1491, Edward of Middleham becomes a teenage father at 18 years of age, as his wife Isabella of Aragon (now 21 years old) gives birth to their first son. At first many wanted Edward to name his son after him but he refused and instead decided to name his first son as David, David of Wales. Month later, Richard III has another son named Richard VI of England.

The following year (I butterflied this away), an Italian man by the name of Christopher Columbus sails for Portugal to help find a new and faster route to India. Only to instead without realizing that he landed in the New World. As a result the Portuguese grow more further interest in the Americas as Columbus made more expeditions discovering more of the Caribbean and coastal parts of OTL Venezuela and Florida. How just like in OTL, Columbus dies still believing he landed in Asia. Of course explorer Amerigo Vespucci later on proves Columbus wrong and proves that he just instead discovered new continents.

By 1494 AD, the Portuguese and English (I butterflied this) sign the Treaty of Alcobaça in which OTL Brazil is divided by the English and Portuguese. Resulting in the English to begin slowly colonizing the Colony of Avalon (OTL Brazil).

Back in Spain, by the year of 1510, Prince David of Wales who is now 19 years old refuses to marry Joanna II "the Lustful" of Aragon, over the fact he outright hates the woman. He even says to his parents Edward of Middleham and Isabella of Aragon, that Joanna II of Aragon is a "lustful whore" and that she does not care for anyone except herself. He even states that she is extremely rude and insults David as well plenty of times before especially when he was still a little child.

Isabella of Aragon decides to do what is best to her son she loves, and agrees that he should not have to marry a woman full of sin. However Edward of Middleham argues that he needs to marry her in order to help create more of his legacy. Edward and Isabella are never able to agree on it and eventually in one argument between the formerly cute and happy couple (who now are the exact opposite sadly), Isabella of Aragon collapses from an heart attack which is fatal. Edward of Middleham then becomes so depressed from the fighting he had done with his wife that he decides to kill himself a week later mostly over feeling guilty of what he said in his own last words were "I killed my wife I loved".

This results in English and Spanish now becoming tense towards each other in relations, but later things turn worse as Joanna II "the Lustful" of Aragon decides to declare herself as "queen" of Aragon. This results in the short-lived Spanish-Aragonese War (also called mostly in Britain as Joanna the Lustful's War) in which Spain did not get support from Portugal or England. Not even the French wished to even help the struggling Kingdom of Spain against the seceding Kingdom of Aragon.

By 1515, the Kingdom of Aragon is established and Joanna the Lustful's War ends in Aragonese victory due to having mainly support from the Holy Roman Empire. Spain ceases to exist and becomes now know as the Kingdom of Castile.

And the war was all simply started by what many historians consider was David of Wales refusing to marry Joanna II of Aragon and the beginning of the end for the happy marriage of Edward of Middleham and Isabella of Aragon.

Eventually decades later the colonization in the New World is still in infancy, the Portuguese conquered the Aztecs, Incans, and Mayans, and still converted the Native Americans by force to Roman Catholicism. However the Conquest of Aztec Empire and the Conquest of the Incan Empire took a bit longer than the Spanish did in OTL.

Portuguese create the colonies of Terra Oria (OTL Venezuela and Colombia), Novo Beira (OTL Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, and Chile), Novo Algarve (OTL Spanish colonial North America, aka OTL New Spain), Ciba (OTL Cuba and Jamaica), Novo Azores (the rest of OTL Caribbean), and Ricardo (named after Richard III of England, due to his marriage with Infanta Joanna of Portugal).

Avalon is divided into four provinces, New Cornwall, Virginia, New Jersey, and Maryland. Colonial expansion into the mainland is still an ongoing process but the good thing about is that even though the natives were converted to Roman Catholicism by the English, they however have better rights such as ownership of property, voice in colonial government, etc. unlike the not-so-good treatment of the natives in Portuguese Latin America.

The Kingdom of Castile unfortunately was too late for the early party of grabbing the Americas, it was only able to colonize and create their colony of Rio de la Plata (which is more bigger than it was in OTL), attempts were made such as Castilians attempting to create colony in OTL Virginia called the Colony of Sevilla, but when the governor of the colony returned ten years later he found nothing left of it except for a word carved onto a tree spelling out "Croatano". To this day many historians believe that the Spanish colonists of the short-lived Colony of Sevilla went native and went to live with the local Native Americans in the area. There is some evidence showing that some of the names of Native Americans had Spanish surnames such as Gonzalez, Lopez, and Santiago by the time the French decided to colonize the area in the 1600's. Which that said the Kingdom of Castile was unable to explore much and colonize much of the New World like many had dreamed of doing. However the Castilians would later see better success in colonizing the Philippines and eventually colonizing OTL Western Australia by the early 1700's, creating the colony of Tierra Meridional (meaning southern land).

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If you people would like to see me continue more of this I'd be very happy to do so! :)


 
Interesting scenario, Louis!:)
Terra Oria (OTL Venezuela and Colombia)
I think you mean Terra Aurea (Land of Gold in archaic Portuguese).
Novo Beira (OTL Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, and Chile)
I think you meant Nova Beira (Beira is a feminine word).

Ciba (OTL Cuba and Jamaica)
I'm not sure about the word, is it based on a local name?

Novo Azores (the rest of OTL Caribbean),
I think you meant Novos Açores (Açores is a masculine word).
Ricardo (named after Richard III of England, due to his marriage with Infanta Joanna of Portugal).
An adaptation of the name Ricardo to a land, would work better as Ricardina. Where is it located?

Edit: fixed a mistake
 
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Looking forward to your first sci-fi!
Thanks!
That's a cool looking map. One thing that surprised me was Mars's population of 15.6 Billion compared to Earth's 5.3 Billion. How did Mars get to be so densely populated?
Venus is 5.3 Billion. Earth is waaay up there at somewhere around at 30 billion with all its orbital habitats. I haven't added it yet cuz I'll have to split the population and other stats between each warring power.
 
Interesting scenario, Louis!:)

I think you mean Terra Aurea (Land of Gold in archaic Portuguese).

I think you meant Nova Beira (Beira is a feminine word).

I'm not sure about the word, is it based on a local name?


I think you meant Novos Açores (Açores is a feminine word).

An adaptation of the name Ricardo to a land, would work better as Ricardina. Where is it located?

Ah I see. I can understand why though after all Portuguese is a Romance language just like Spanish. I am bit annoyed have forgotten that the language uses feminine and masculine words. Thanks for noticing.

Novos Açores does sound better now that you mention it.

Richardina I guess would work better for a name. I forgot to mention that Richardina is basically OTL Florida.
 

Isaac Beach

Banned

Good lord they're both better than any of the maps I've posted and I've been here over a year now. You should definitely post any others you have, I think everyone here would appreciate it.
Regarding Europe; if it's a moderate Napoleonic victory I take it Spain probably retained it's Bourbons or are Nappy's siblings still all over the damn continent? And that US is a really nice shape, it's really hard to make the US look good while truncating their territory so you've done a bloody good job there. Hope to see more!
 
Wow, great maps and backstories! What's the current US capital?
Wow, that's a huge oversight, ha ha! I'll pretend I excluded that from the map on purpose, but really, I'm not sure. Philly was made the capital after DC was evacuated, and is probably the capital again by the modern day, but Cincinnati and maybe Peoria will serve as capitals at various points in US history.
Washington still exists as a satellite of the larger city of Alexandria, dotted with military cemeteries and memorials to famous politicians - the area would be known as the Graveyard of America's Heroes. I'm about to post a wikibox for it over on the wikibox thread.
Philly contains all the history and architecture of early America, plus no particular ideological association.
Cincinnati would have great infrastructure and Beaux-Arts buildings, but it would also be associated with the corruption and imperial attitude of the Gilded Era governments that built it. Westerners and Southerners might prefer the location.
I've toyed with the idea of the mid-20th century socialist government building a big ol brutalist capital (a la Brasilia) near Peoria, or somewhere in the Midwest. This obviously wouldn't last long, and by today, would be mostly good for abandoned building exploration and use as a film backdrop.

Dude, that's a book there. A big book. 70,000-100,000 words is usually the range for a novel. That's like 300-400 pages there! Are you sure you didn't accidentally add an extra digit there?
I don't want to build myself up! It's literally mostly bullet points and offhand things about, like, which languages are used where, what's happening where, who does what to who. Also a lot of notes making sense of OTL history.It would make no sense to most people. If I ever got around to turning it into a proper narrative timeline, it'd probably be shorter! Before then, I want to improve my writing skills, to best show the changes in Napoleon's personality and actions in the early period.

As others have already said, these are excellent maps and a worthy contribution to the thread. I want to see more.
Thanks! I'm grateful for all the unexpected support, especially from people whose maps I've been admiring for a while.

Hmm. There has been a certain amount of Mexico-wanking here of late: not that I mind a Mexico-wank per se, but Mexico gets too strong too close to the POD, when it needs quite a bit of time to work out all the problems the Spanish colonial heritage saddled it with. But the SW staying part of Mexico or at least (in the case of California) not joining the US isn't that implausible even without a Mighty Mexico in the given situation. Much of the US drive to conquer the SW came from the slave states (the founders of US Texas were slaveowners), with the slave power weakened early on there would be less of a push to expand, and aside from California, much of the area wasn't very appealing for farmers or plantation owners, not to mention rich in hostile Indians. (I say this as a New Mexican: it's still a bit of an empty space between the Sierras and west Texas)
My main motivation for creating this scenario is to show a more multipolar world, politically and culturally - and strengthening Mexico seemed like a good way to kill two birds with one stone, elevating Latin America on the global stage, and limiting American influence.
The chain of thought for Mexico was to head off the post-colonial chaos as much as possible. With no Peninsular Campaign, Mexico stays with Spain slightly longer, and King Francisco de Paula institutes a new wave of 'Bourbon Reforms'. This satisfies Criollo demands for autonomy, solves some of the dumber structural problems in the empire preventing economic growth, and eventually leads to a (very gradually implemented) Aranda Plan, with Mexico becoming an independent monarchy. Mexico, Spain and Spain's ally France are able to cooperate in Latin America, and by the time the Americans are ready to make a move for northern Mexico, a very different Mexico is also ready to defend themselves. A smooth transition to independence means the entire country is more stable, with Catholic immigrants from Spain, Europe and (eventually) the Philippines securing California before too many Anglos can get to the region.
That's a really good point about slavers driving US expansion, and it helps explain how an industrialised US doesn't expand southwards. However, even without the slaver influence, the US would still be pretty keen on San Francisco Bay, which would lead to some sort of conflict.
As a side note: Texas did split off similar to OTL, due to anger over Mexico's anti-slavery policies. Receiving an influx of hardcore Southern planters after the abolition of slavery in the US, Texas struggles on as a slave-driven hell, eventually collapsing as the slaves rise up in the late 19th century, necessitating a US intervention and annexation.

Regarding Europe; if it's a moderate Napoleonic victory I take it Spain probably retained it's Bourbons or are Nappy's siblings still all over the damn continent? And that US is a really nice shape, it's really hard to make the US look good while truncating their territory so you've done a bloody good job there. Hope to see more!
Thanks! Yeah, Spain remains Bourbon, though thanks to the endurance of a France loyal to its revolutionary roots, liberal agitation is quite a bit more confident. But don't feel sorry for the Bonaparte brood, the good ones will get some little states here and there.

Oh please do.
You should definitely post any others you have, I think everyone here would appreciate it.
All the positive feedback has actually motivated me to start work on a 'redo' of my map of Africa from the timeline! In the meantime, I might post something older...
 
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You know, you should be careful to cite where you got the flag from... I know you made changes to the backstory, but copying @Neoteros' flag off the bat is plagiarism. You could get into trouble with that. ._.

Regardless, nice map. I'd ask if I could use it, but my town names are slightly more Germanized (names are matched phonetically with the original German ones). :3
 
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