Map Thread XV

Status
Not open for further replies.

Red Orm

Banned
Really? I tried to draw the borders to follow ethnic lines as accurately as possible. (except for not allowing Bosniak-majority areas to have a state, and assigning an ethnically mixed region in northern Bosnia to Croatia to ensure that Srpska is completely surrouded by Croatia).

Which bits do you think are implausible? As far as I can tell, it involves much less ethnic cleansing of Serbs than in OTL, and approximately the same amount of ethnic cleansing of Croats.

Yes but there are many border regions of plurality, not majority, where dozens of thousands of Croats/Serbs will have to live under the rule (and I assume cultural and religious dictatorship) of the other side. A Croatia so triumphant to include half of Bosnia wouldn't countenance losing half of Croatia. Both sides must have had the will to fight almost gored out of them by the Bosniaks who had two choices: live or die. Croats and Serbs could just choose to go home. I can't imagine Croatia or Serbia in a case of no foreign intervention declining the possibility to ally with the Bosniaks and thus taking all of Bosnia for themselves. All they need is to release concentration camp prisoners, provide arms, and stop abuse and massacres, and promise to allow religious and cultural freedom after the war. Making it so much easier to win, ridiculously easier.

And how did a relatively triumphant Serbia manage to lose Kosovo and Montenegro by war's end? They'd rather give up on Bosnia for sure than lose these more integral parts of their lands.
 
Yes but there are many border regions of plurality, not majority, where dozens of thousands of Croats/Serbs will have to live under the rule (and I assume cultural and religious dictatorship) of the other side. A Croatia so triumphant to include half of Bosnia wouldn't countenance losing half of Croatia. Both sides must have had the will to fight almost gored out of them by the Bosniaks who had two choices: live or die. Croats and Serbs could just choose to go home. I can't imagine Croatia or Serbia in a case of no foreign intervention declining the possibility to ally with the Bosniaks and thus taking all of Bosnia for themselves. All they need is to release concentration camp prisoners, provide arms, and stop abuse and massacres, and promise to allow religious and cultural freedom after the war. Making it so much easier to win, ridiculously easier.

And how did a relatively triumphant Serbia manage to lose Kosovo and Montenegro by war's end? They'd rather give up on Bosnia for sure than lose these more integral parts of their lands.

Good arguments. I think I agree with you now that my map isn't especially plausible.
 
I just made this. I am not sure if I should continue. What you guys think?
krYrZ0y.png
 
A quick little map.

NATO doesn't intervene in the Yugoslav Wars, and Croatia comes to an agreement with Serbia. Here's the end result once all the dust settles:

View attachment 317102

Orange = Croatia
Dark blue = Serbia (Note: Montengro is initially a part of Serbia after the war, but votes for independence at the same time as in OTL).
Light blue = Srpska (Fully surrounded by Croatia)

After the war, almost all surviving Bosniak Muslims flee to Germany, Albania, Kosovo, and a few other countries.

Initially, Croatia, Serbia, and Srpska are all disliked by the West, but the relations warm up again and all three countries join the EU at the same time on 1 July 2017. This is met with protests from Germany's large Bosniak community.
Not how the deal was supposed to go, the Serbs did actually approach the Croats to divide Bosnia, the Croats didn't like what was offered.
 

Isaac Beach

Banned
Western Europe 2525.png


I don't really need to give this a writeup given there's a whole spiel on the image itself. But I will say that for those curious and unable to decipher the motto at the start; it's Carolingian for "Freedom, Fraternity, Religion and Guidance". Bit of a mouthful, but then again it would be when you're smashing together upwards of six major languages. GC stands for Gregorian Calendar, which is necessary as the Islamic and Chinese Calendars are much more prevalent ITTL.
 

Isaac Beach

Banned
Snipruce? Snupro? Some B-Munro related name pun

That's beautiful as always (and far nicer than the version I'd been doodling :p), is New Arabia more or less populated than OTL? And with those Japs were they a colony before the '02 uprising or just minding their own business?
 
Onslaught 1271.1.png

1270


Wenceslaus I, King of Bohemia, had encouraged German immigration, partly through his marriage to Kunigunde of Hohenstaufen, daughter of Philip of Swabia.
This influence strengthened not only the skills and industrial base of his Kingdom but also placed strong ties with the family of the Emperor.

Wenceslaus used these ties to neutralise the threat of Duke Frederick of Austria who was forced to flee after Imperial troops were despatched to oust him from the Duchy in 1236. Austria was governed by Ekbert of the Andrechs family forming an even stronger threat to Bohemia, forcing Wenceslaus into an alliance with Duke Frederick and Otto II, Duke of Bavaria which saw Frederick regain Austria.
It was this alliance, originally formed against the Emperor Frederick, that formed the basis of resistance to the Mongols in central Europe.
Wenceslaus was able to use the loss of local nobility in the battle at Liegnitz to press his claims on Oppeln and Lausitz

Although Duke Frederick was overwhelmed by the initial invasion and made vassal, he maintained his ties to the others, including the marriage of his heir, Gertrude, to Vladislaus, heir to Bohemia in 1246. Vladislaus died only a year later but in 1252, her second husband having also died, Gertrude married Ottokar II, second son of Wenceslaus.
The extinction of the Andrechs family in 1248 saw their lands absorbed into Bavaria.

The Ulus Jurchi was Islamic, following the lead of Bereke, their ruler. The destruction of Baghdad in 1258, by Hugalu of the IlKhan Horde-Bereke's cousin, led, after a period of peace following the death of Mongke and the election of Kublai as Great Khan, to war between the Ulus Jurchi, in alliance with the Mameluks of Egypt, and the IlKhans. The IlKhan Horde, in turn, formed an alliance with the Ulus Orda to outflank the Jurchians. The war lasted only 4 years, the Ulus Jurchi was unable to make any headway in the Caucasus but their forces overwhelmed the Ordans and their vassals with the help of Byzantium. By the time Kublai suppressed the conflict Ulus Orda ceased to exist and the Mongol hold on Eastern Europe was weaker.

The Mongol hold over the east allowed the Orthodox church to strengthen its hold on the Rus and push into Poland & the old Hungarian lands but more aggressive was the adoption of Islam in south east Europe.

The Pope proclaimed the Eighth Crusade in 1265, this time against the Islamic Ulus Jurchi to try to reclaim Eastern Europe for Roman Christianity.
The Teutonic Knights were already entrenched along the Baltic coast but the Mongol threat had caused them to rely upon missionaries in Lithuania and Prussia, this was surprisingly effective, the Lithuanians converted and formed the Grand Duchy, the title bestowed by the Pope in 1263. The Prussians took longer but in 1266 they formed a Christian Federation and allied with the Knights.
The Mongol vassal, Poland, now found itself not only at odds internally but threatened by strong forces externally.

The death of Emperor Frederick II in 1244 saw the election not only of Conrad, his son, as Emperor but of successive anti-Emperors. The Crusade of 1265 allowed Ottokar II to push his own claim. Civil War broke out in the Empire during the period known as the Interregnum.

The Thuringian War also erupted over the succession in Thuringia. Ottokar backed the Wettins, giving him a free hand to pursue his claims in Silesia.

The Crusade reached Vienna without a fight, Duke Frederick reverted back to his roots but refused to re-enter the Empire. Negotiations with the Crusaders saw him use them to conquer Styria and Carinthia in return for free passage and supply in the south. Further negotiations saw Bavaria provide troops in return for a free hand annexing lands congruent with their own along with renewing the alliance between Bavaria, Bohemia and Austria.
Negotiations were opened with Polish leaders of all factions and with Galich, long a thorn in the Mongol side.

At the battle of Koszeg in 1267 [where Duke Frederick of Austria died] Alliance forces defeated the Mongol tumans sent against them but as these were their subject peoples rather than the "true" Mongolians the Crusaders advanced slowly and fortified the towns they captured.

The Crusaders in the south received aid from Venice which re-claimed her Istrian possessions [and re-conquered Zara]. Small principalities were set up around the main Crusader state Zagreb. There was even talk of setting the last Arpad, Stephen, on the throne of Croatia but as they could threaten supply lines this came to nothing.

The Crusade did a lot to quieten things down in Germany as men flooded to Prague and Vienna in search of land and absolution. Italy, on the other hand was in turmoil as Manfred of Sicily, Conrad's brother, ravaged the land. The Pope took the opportunity to finally free himself of the Hohenstaufen threat by gifting the Kingdom of Sicily to the Angevins of Provence- all they had to do was take it. This was too late for the Papal Lands where noble families were trying to establish their independence.

Manfred was killed at Benevento in 1266 but Conradin; Conrad's son tried to return the favour by invading from the north in 1268 but was captured at Tagliacozzo and executed.

As we enter 1270 Louis IX of France and Prince Edward of England are just arriving in Zagreb.

Where are the Mongols?
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
That's beautiful as always (and far nicer than the version I'd been doodling :p), is New Arabia more or less populated than OTL? And with those Japs were they a colony before the '02 uprising or just minding their own business?
Please refrain from the term "Japs" unless you are quoting historic person or doing a T/L regarding WW II.

The term is fairly close to "fighting words".
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top