Map Thread XV

Status
Not open for further replies.
POD: The axis won the war, but the Soviet Union remain neutral.

-The most powerful powers in Europe are the Greater German Reich and the Italian empire, they have got many puppets and colonies. France and Britain are German puppets, meanwhile Italy controls most of Africa, Middle east and the balkans.

-The Japanese Empire( Head of the Greater East Co-Prosperity Sphere) is a great power, but doesn't part of the Axis.

-The Former Allies nations form Nato to contain the Germans and the Japanese. The leader of Nato is United States of America

-USSR is more paranoid thano OTL, because is surronded by fascist powers. The USSR have good relations with Nato.
Map complete.png
 

Deleted member 94708

Now don't exaggerate: only about 4/5 the population of Russia. :p

Sorry, sorry... only 96% of the population of Russia. The facade is tenable afterall, since every single Russian voter collectively can outvote the new not-conquests 51-49.
 

Deleted member 94708

What? Glorious Manchurian electorate would happily vote for Moscow's premier candidate and liberator extraordinaire!

In all reality, I at first had Manchuria just listed as a CIS and Eurasian ally, but figured they'd probably like to annex them for warm water access as in the 1900s. ITTL my guess is that Manchuria would be a Eurasian Republic, and not be eligible to elect the Moscow-based President. They'd have their own who "works in tandem" with Moscow.

As for World War III, yea, I kind of pictured there being a last-ditch alliance between America and China with Eurasia being victorious and taking what they wanted. Though it's more of a map-making exercise than a serious scenario.

Haha, I understand that it's a map-making exercise as much as anything, but it does make me want to say that Russia should thank God that it's leadership isn't seriously implementing Dugin's whole plan as it'd end up with them under siege by every neighbor they have, if not involved in a nuclear exchange with either the US, China, France, or the UK (or all of them).

I understand that the "collapse in GDP" touted by idiot Western reporters in recent years is entirely an artifact of the exchange rate with US dollars; measured in Rubles the Russian standard of living has dropped perhaps 5% since 2014, not 45% as touted here. There's been inflation, and of course the price of consumer imports from the West has risen by 40%, but it's not the end of the world. Domestic production has filled some gaps, and Chinese imports others.

Thus, Russia is by no means weak, but it does not have sufficient wealth, or a sufficiently large population, to simultaneously break up the United States, checkmate Europe, woo India, and chip away at China. Trying to do so would result in its being crushed by a combination of the most threatened powers; no one is going to invade the Russian heartlands due to its large nuclear arsenal, but destroying its economy and influence abroad is certainly possible. Looking at this, it's as if Dugin watched the invasions of Iraq and Georgia and drew ALL THE WRONG LESSONS from both of those debacles.

EDIT: Also, "Manchurian electorate" is 95% Han Chinese, roughly. "Liberator" is not the word they'll be thinking. :p
 
I'm actually considering doing a similar timeline, though I give Ogedai another decade or two instead of five years.

In regards to the Mongols, I never found the "filled with castles" argument convincing. The Mongols took Zhongdu- a walled city of more than a million inhabitants. They have gunpowder and Chinese siege engineers, dinky European castles aren't going to stop them, manpower and logistics will. Why conquer when you can raid and demand tribute?

This period is especially vulnerable to Eastern invasion because of three things: the Duke of Austria dies, with his house going extinct. This kicks off a succession crisis in the literal eastmarch. Likewise Verona at this time is held by a crony of Fredrick known for his cruelty. The Mongols under Subutai were superb at finding and exploiting such divisions. And to top it all of Frederick, the emperor, is in fierce conflict with the Pope.

Give them 10 years and they outright conquer Poland, Hungary, Bohemia, Friuli and Austria and tributize North and Central Italy and SE Germany. They also easily to sweep up Constantinople and the Greek successor states and possibly take Egypt as well. This is about the limit of what they can plausibly take before Ogedai dies and the successIonian crisis kicks off; though it's not impossible IMHO that they or some successor state could push onwards from Egypt and basically pull a second Arab Conquest all the way to spain, this would take a fair bit of work and likely come at the cost of effort elsewhere.

This then leads to three new successor atates- the Khanate of Rome in Constantinople, a Khanate in Egypt and the Khanate of the Danube. The first is baidcally an Orthodox Ottomans- settled nomads claiming the legacy of Rome; the second is yet another conquest dynasty akin to the Seljuks; the third is a Catholic Holden Horde, with tributaries froman the Baltic to the Adriatic. In the long term this probably leads to early Italian and German Unification as some state or another plays Muscovy and unites their regions.

I agree with your views regarding the castles but with regards to Austria, the death of Frederick, Duke of Austria, depends on Bela IV surviving the Mongols. In OTL Frederick died in battle against Bela.
Emperor Frederick is out in the Holy Land until the early 1240's & then in conflict with the Pope, he has never shown much use for Germany, would he leave Sicily to defend the north?
Subutai died in 1248, would his successors be as canny?
Poland & Hungary are a given almost but Bohemia? not so sure.
The Greek states I also see as a problem, not for their strength but their diplomacy.
If Hugalu cant defeat the Mamluks in OTL its going to take something special to do it in this.
Catholic "Golden" Horde [that name was not applied until the 16th century & even then by the Russians] well Berke was pretty vigorous over his Islamic faith, would he convert again or do you see another civil war?

see my next post for my view of the next few years
 
Onslaught 1247.4.png

Onslaught 1247;


In 1241, having conquered the Rus states, the Mongol Hordes descended upon eastern Europe.

One Army looped north through Poland, defeating a combined Army of Poles, Templars & Empire troops at Legnica. A second Army crossed the Carpathian Mountains whilst a third followed the Danube.
The now combined Mogol force feigned a retreat from the Army of King Bela IV of Hungary.
Bela's Army included Cuman troops but the Hungarians turned on them & they fled, devastating the land as they went. Bickering also saw the departure of Duke Frederick of Austria.

The battle at the Sajo River saw the Hungarian Army outmanouvered, out-fought & almost destroyed. Bela escaped but was pursued south, by 1242, into Croatia then into Dalmatia.

The Mongols experienced the same difficulty they had during the first invasion of China, namely, they were unable to take fortified towns. Croatian troops had defeated the pursuing Mongol force outside the fortress of Klis & it was here, whilst Bela continued to retreat from the re-inforced Mongols, that Stephen, Bela's son, was born.
Employing skilled citizens from the captured cities of Hungary plus imported engineers fro their new rus vassals the fortified places of Hungary fell during the seasons of 1242-1244. Bela was finally captured & killed in Bosnia, the Arpad line extinguished except for Stephen whose mother fled with him to the presumed safety of the Empire.

The main Mongol force had sent out strong scouting forces to investigate neighbouring states &, after the near destruction of Weiner Neustadt, south of Vienna, Duke Frederick followed the example of previous Rus princes, putting himself under the protection of the Khan.

Other forces raided deep into the Empire, both north & south of the Alps reaching the River Rhine in the north whilst the southern force sacked Pisa & Rome, among many other rich Italian Cities. Emperor Frederick II was killed in battle near Ancona in 1244 plunging the Empire into Civil War over the succession as well.

In the early 1230's Genoa had reached an agreement with the Mongols that saw only the trading posts of their rivals attacked. This agreement now stood them in good stead, they were successful against depleted Pisan forces on Sardinia & also made gains in Liguria. Similarly Nicaea made alliance with this Northern branch of the Mongols which gained them protection from the southern forces of Hugalu who was entering Anatolia after capturing Mesopotamia.

The new Mongol lands were organised into two new states or Ulus, Ulus Jurchj & Ulus Orda.
The death of Khan Ogedei, in 1247, was not unexpected. He had suffered a long illness. For this reason, raids in 1246-47 were severely curtailed.

All claimants to the Great Khanate headed towards Karakorum to decide on the new ruler. Civil War seemed certain. The death of Guyuk, in 1248, left Batu & Mongke as front runners. As Jochi, Batu's father, had not been of pure Mongol parentage, support swung towards Mongke who was proclaimed Great Khan in 1251.
 
POD: The axis won the war, but the Soviet Union remain neutral.

-The most powerful powers in Europe are the Greater German Reich and the Italian empire, they have got many puppets and colonies. France and Britain are German puppets, meanwhile Italy controls most of Africa, Middle east and the balkans.

-The Japanese Empire( Head of the Greater East Co-Prosperity Sphere) is a great power, but doesn't part of the Axis.

-The Former Allies nations form Nato to contain the Germans and the Japanese. The leader of Nato is United States of America

-USSR is more paranoid thano OTL, because is surronded by fascist powers. The USSR have good relations with Nato.View attachment 314808
Y Slovenia always izz puppet of Italy? Always was carinola of Austria aka Germany...
 
For this very special day, I thought I'd share some of my best works, from me to you
April Fools! Have fun with your burning eyeballs!

Based on House of the Scorpion:


Based on Skyrim:


Idea for an "Inverted world," Where land is sea and sea is land:

Don't worry, my eyes are burning as much as yours. I'm sad that once upon a time I made these maps, but I'm so glad I have improved as much as I have. I'm sure you guys are just glad I've improved too and not chugging out this crap this bad nowadays. Happy April fools, and all that.

I want to live in Dreamland!
 

Well, the 95% Chinese of China have no hangups over "liberating" non-Chinese. ;)

My understanding of this scenario that Dugin paints is that Russian soldiers should only be committed to operations that are 100% victory assured. Everything else is support Russian proxies (otl Ukraine and Transnistria, ttl Cascadia and Turkey) where victory would be great, but the goal is more destabilization than conquest.

In other words (specifically, my gf's words) why did they leave Korea united?

As for the economy, again, I had no real timeline, but it is quite amazing how Germany went from one of the worst economic depressions to the most powerful state in Europe in barely a decade. And Dugin is a biiiiiig fan of those guys.
 
As for the economy, again, I had no real timeline, but it is quite amazing how Germany went from one of the worst economic depressions to the most powerful state in Europe in barely a decade. And Dugin is a biiiiiig fan of those guys.

That's an extremely bad analogy. Germany already had the strongest economy in Europe: it just needed to get out of the slump of the depression. That's very different from building a first-world economy out of the wreckage of the Soviet Union + a decade of Yeltsin's national "fire sale."
 
That's an extremely bad analogy. Germany already had the strongest economy in Europe: it just needed to get out of the slump of the depression. That's very different from building a first-world economy out of the wreckage of the Soviet Union + a decade of Yeltsin's national "fire sale."

OH MY GOD WE'RE HAVING A FIRE.

Sale.

Mildly substantive edit: The whole book is basically a bad analogy.
 
Decided to make some more edits to my map and put in the transcontinental railroad (in brown) that snakes through the southwest. The line is St. Louis-Ciudad Pueblo-Santa Fe de Nuevo Mexico-Tucson-Victoria-Los Angeles.
I had it in my head that the Transcontinental Railroad to be built through Kansas not Nebraska to Ciudad Pueblo (OTL Pueblo Colorado) then South through New Mexico and into California by way of Los Angeles because of the longer Civil War reconstruction and the Sioux War. The railroad is planned to be built up the Central California Valley to Sacramento then eventually up to Salem.
Below is a link to my original map.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/map-thread-xiv.383564/page-397#post-1366970

end of civil war with railroad.png
 
featured-europe-according-to-future-2022.png

Just saw it on the news, Germanophilism in France has become overload and Francophilism in Germany becoming overload has lead to the first Reunion of french and German volk in 1000 years
France willingly accepted the eternal rule of Muddha Merkel
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top