Map Thread XIX

Status
Not open for further replies.
I was about to make that joke, like, I had the image in the comment, writing the same thing, and you posted it. I feel strangely satisfied to not have been the only one to think about that, and frustrated that I didn't posted it in time.
 
A tag Baag n bang a soaba

bzgyyrl12kw41.jpg


The title is a Mooré saying, roughly translated to "Kick an old dog and you'll suffer the consequences"
POD: Moro Naba (King of the Mossi of Burkina Faso) Koom II dies 2 years earlier, in 1940

Out of the historical context, the secession of Moogo from Vichyist French West Africa can be puzzling, why did this region, which was not particularly a hotbed of anti-french sentiment secede independently of Free France while the rest of France's african empire stayed together?

The answer mostly lies in the life of King Saagha II's father, Koom II, crowned as King (Naba) of the recently conquered Ouagadougou at the young age of 16, his coronation was controversial and seen by many as illegitimate as it was supported by the French administration, which was at the time trying to limit the powers of traditional dynasties across its empire. His room for action and influence would probably have been limited had it not been for massive revolts across the French colony of Upper Senegal and Niger [modern Burkina+Mali+Niger] which, once tamed by Senegalese Tirraileur, made the Colonial administration reconsider their mean of rule, Paris decided to divide the Colony in three parts to be able to rule it more directly, one of which, Upper Volta (named after its location at the source of the volta rivers), came to encompass all of the Mossi inhabited land, due to Ouagadougou's predominant location in the new colony, the french decided to reward the Mossi nobles and its royal dynasty which had been loyal through the revolts and give them wider power in hope to keep the peace and gain leverage on the population.

This change allowed Koom II to extend his influence, particularly to the peripherical Mossi land which weren't traditionally ruled from Ouagadougou, however is official authority would be limited by the French Governor in Upper volta.

Édouard Hesling would be the governor through most of Upper Volta's existence, he notably started the construction of a railway linking Ouagadougou to Ivory Coast's capital Abidjan, and focused on the increase of Cotton production, his order for every farmer to grow Cotton would be disastrous for many who couldn't meet the unrealistic quota and couldn't grow as much other staple they traditionally relied upon. By 1930, mainly due to his policies (which he naturally blamed on the local's reluctance to work) , Upper Volta had been an economic disappointment and in the Context of budget cut caused by the Great Depression, the French Government decided to remove the colonial administration in Ouagadougou and split Upper volta among the 3 neighboring colonies of Ivory Coast, French Sudan and Niger

This decision angered large part of the mossi population, who despite their general apathy toward Colonial borders, still considered the splitting of their People's homeland to be deeply disrespectful, for Koom II it signficiantly limited his de facto power by moving the decision center 800 km away and splitting off the Moogo. He also knew that the long term power of the Dynasty was in Jeopardy as his role as advisor would increasingly be superseded by French-educated évolués

He would however die less than a decade later in May 1940, his death would be mourned by many Mossi, for whom it was an Event more important than a war on another continent. His eldest child Issoufou Succeeded him without much debate, as he was clearly favoured by other nobles over his brother and took the name of Saagha II during his crowning. Saagha had been educated between Ouagadougou and Tunis, and thanks to his military service in Southern France knew his coloniser relatively well, He remember the French's stripping away his father's power, and particularly remembered that his Father emphasised his necessity to adapt the Dynasty to survive. He was quickly faced by the New vichyist administraiton in Paris, and particularly the new Colonial governor in Dakar, Pierre Boisson. Boisson quickly rallied to Vichy and increased the requirements of forced labour and production quota.

Saagha II had always been wary of Nazi Germany, at a time when many across Africa were happy over France's defeat in Europe, the Naba also quickly disliked Boisson and after the British attack on the French Navy at Mers el kebir, he devised a plan. He would ask the British administraiton over the border in Gold Coast for military protection, in exchange of his secession from Vichyist West Africa, the British were initially reluctant as they feared it would encourage similar secessionism in their colonies at a critical time, the proposal would stay idle through the wet season, by october however the situation had changed significantly, Britain's better position at home following the battle of Britain, their failure to directly rally West Africa in the battle of Dakar, and Free France's rallying in Equatorial africa made the British more amenable to this idea, However Britain and French Equatorial Africa's governor Eboué main term of agreement was the Moogo's rallying to Free France, while Saagha has to renounce to his wildest dreams of independence, he still accepted, knowing Free French influence would be limited and it would give him an advantageous position for negotiation after the war.

Saagha however still faced significant opposition among some of the Mossi nobles, Governor Boisson had focused his policy on getting more traditional chiefs and nobles on his side, and many didn't follow Saagha's plan, Saagha masterfully manoeuvered that situation however, he managed to appeal to popular support in some of the relunctant northern areas, administered by French Sudan, and ordered the assassination of some other reluctant nobles.

By Late November 1940 the green light for the operation had been given the British expedition crossed the Gold Coast's border and quickly reached Ouagadougou, Saagha II declared for Free France, an announcement which was followed by most other town administrators and chiefs, including those in French Sudan. Dakar sent a group of Tirailleur, but they were considerably slowed down as the Railroad which was supposed to link Ouagadougou was unfinished, reaching only the town of Bobo-Dioulasso, the French and British both faced each other in skirmishes between Ouagadougou and Bobo-Dioulasso over the following week, these skirmishes mostly ended in British victories and forced the French to back and accept their loss of control over the Moogo. The declaration and skirmishes would, back in Vichy, become a small part of the ongoing crisis between Petain and Laval, as the loss of Moogo would become an argument in favor of Laval's plan of joining the Axis.

Saagha II would accept Gaullist administrators in december, although riding on large popular support from all part of Moaga (Mossi) society and British and not French military presence, the power relations were definitely in his favour that time.

---
well that was a quick scenario I came up with while researching ww2 French west africa.
 
Last edited:
final.png


This is based off of Kuusinen's USSR 1958 series.

The Berlin Peace Conference of March 1941 was thought to be bring peace to Europe again. After the defeat of the Western Allies by Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, the British were brought to heel after the Churchill government collapsed and Halifax took charge. The British concedes vast lands to the Soviets, Germans, and Italians, and recognize their political borders. Stalin thought that peace was present, for at least a decade he thought. Little did Stalin know, Hitler and his allies were planning to take down the "Judaeo-Bolshevik TM" menace before it gets to powerful to take down. From March to July 1941, Hitler and his generals drafted "Operation Barbarossa", and it would be the largest invasion force in history.

In July 1941, German and axis troops suddenly attack the Red Army all across the Soviet border, from Norway in the Arctic, to Ukraine in the Black Sea. The Iran front was mostly made of skirmishes rather than actual fighting in the first years. Stalin was shocked that Hitler would break the peace that quickly and Nazi troops quickly overran Western Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltics. Some ambitious commanders wanted to march on Leningrad and Moscow and they did in late summer of 1941. The Nazis were already approaching Leningrad but by winter, the Soviets re-organized their economy to a war based one and more experienced Red Army troops were diverted in the North to protect Leningrad. In Winter of 1941, the Red Army conducted their first offensive. The Germans were driven away from Leningrad, due to poor winter clothing and logistic issues. The Red Army drove the Germans all the way back to Estonia, until they were finally stopped by the Germans.

The "Take Moscow" strategy failed, but Hitler had another offensive plan, go capture the Caucasus oil fields from the Soviets. Due to the generals being humiliated by their failed Moscow/Leningrad campaign, Hitler had his way. Hitler also discussed with Mussolini to concentrate Italian troops in Iraq, which Mussolini gleefully accepted, wanting to show Hitler that the Italians were worthy warriors like the Germans. In Summer 1942, the Germans launched "Case Blue" and invaded Western Ukraine and Crimea, Italian and German troops launched "Operation Crassus" marched into Iran and moved up to seize Baku. The Red Army fell back and all of Ukraine fell under German occupation and the Baku oil fields were at threat of falling under axis control. The Red Army concentrated most of their focus in Azerbaijan, which experienced some of the fiercest fighting in the Great Class War.

It is now 1943 and the axis still contest control over Azerbaijan and Southern Russia. The cities and fields of Southern Russian and the Caucasus are now at the focus of the Great Class War. Krasnodar, now reduced to rubble, continued to defies the Germans and resist. Azerbaijan is mostly in ruins, due to Luftwaffe bombings of villages and oil fields. Despite the harsh situation the Soviet people are under, the war is beginning to turn in their favor. The axis are beginning to be burnt out fighting in Southern Russia and Azerbaijan. The Soviets also reached productive capabilities now more higher than the Germans and Italian production levels combined. It seems that Hitler underestimated the "Utermensch" and how the Soviets transformed their country into a industrial powerhouse since the days of the Tsar. Stalin is also planning on the next great offensive, to finally guarantee the safety of Baku and Southern Russia from axis control.
 
TL-KBA-777: Provinces of the United Empire of Fredonia


I do love when there is a New Ireland in northeastern North America, but a shame to love the New Scotland while doing it. I feel the northern border of Maine isn’t too realistic, as it is more likely the northern area by the the St. Lawrence would have been settled first and the mountains and land inbetween that area and the rest of main would make public services impractical even. It is why Massachusetts gave up a tiny corner of land between them, Connecticut, and New York to New York. King Richard’s Land is a bit oddly named. Most of the Thirteen Colonies were named after British/English royals, but they did not include their title. Richard might also be seen as a bad name for a king back then, though I am guessing the person was born with the name before anyone thought of that.
As a Brit, I feel obliged to ask, which one?
As this map is apparently glorifying the Celtic and Brythonic languages and peoples, it can only be a Cornish pastiche.
View attachment 544664

This is based off of Kuusinen's USSR 1958 series.
Seems the Soviets are still going to deport the Kola Norwegians into Finno-Karelia here. The borders with Norway confuse me mildly though. Why and how did the Soviets get that far north? Guessing it is explaining in that person’s timeline?
 
A redo of an alt-colonization of Asia map by@Atom, expanded to the rest of the planet. Large bits of the Americas taken from @Kaiphranos, since, like Shakespeare, I only steal
from the best. :)

hah, that Nichevo moment made me smile. The word fits the situation perfectly. If it’s no secret, where did you get it?

Great work, by the way! For some reason I was sure that one day I would see your cover on that map.
 

I do love when there is a New Ireland in northeastern North America, but a shame to love the New Scotland while doing it.
I mean, that’s basically what Nova Scotia is, but I thought the name Acadia would be more unique and could also symbolize a shedding of British colonial titles, something that the large French population would appreciate.


I feel the northern border of Maine isn’t too realistic, as it is more likely the northern area by the the St. Lawrence would have been settled first and the mountains and land inbetween that area and the rest of main would make public services impractical even. It is why Massachusetts gave up a tiny corner of land between them, Connecticut, and New York to New York.
This does have historical precedent, as Maine did lay claims deep into Canada for much of its history. Not to the St. Lawrence River, but definitely pretty close. Considering that there’s no British authorities around to prevent the approval of such a claim ITTL, Maine becomes much larger. I’d assume that later extensions to the St. Lawrence River only happened after Maine became a province, when infrastructure in the region is more developed.


King Richard’s Land is a bit oddly named. Most of the Thirteen Colonies were named after British/English royals, but they did not include their title. Richard might also be seen as a bad name for a king back then, though I am guessing the person was born with the name before anyone thought of that.
ITTL, King Richard’s Land is named after Richard Arnold, who was one of Benedict Arnold’s children in OTL and was assassinated ITTL as a prelude to the American Civil War. The King Richard’s Land Territory was named in honor of the martyr king shortly after the American Civil War came to an end.
 
hah, that Nichevo moment made me smile. The word fits the situation perfectly. If it’s no secret, where did you get it?

Great work, by the way! For some reason I was sure that one day I would see your cover on that map.
Thanks! I actually first ran into the word in Harry Turtledove's work - his Worldwar series, specifically.
 
French Victory.png

A Map of Europe in 1722 in which during the Spanish succession war, France successfully invaded and conquer Vienna with Bavaria and the Hungarian rebels. With the fall of Vienna, most of the German principality states join the french side of the war. The dutch would soon be overrun on all sides where the dutch surrender after their loss in the battle of the hauge. Britain soon sue for peace and was force to lose scotland
 
@Unkown00 ooo, another favourite what if! Nice!
Btw good ida to keep S-empire together! But why give Luxembourg to France then?
Also, "southern Hungary" give Hungarians is unlikely I would said. Ottomans were friendly toward France, to rebels maybe too, so I do not think that last mentioned would be keen to take land from them (north Serbia and Lesser Wallachia was taken by Habsburgs AFTER Spanish succesion...) Just small detail.
I like independent Hungary
What happen to Bohemia and Silesia? And was northern war going as OTL?
 
View attachment 544733
A Map of Europe in 1722 in which during the Spanish succession war, France successfully invaded and conquer Vienna with Bavaria and the Hungarian rebels. With the fall of Vienna, most of the German principality states join the french side of the war. The dutch would soon be overrun on all sides where the dutch surrender after their loss in the battle of the hauge. Britain soon sue for peace and was force to lose scotland
A nice map but I have to question Britain losing Scotland. They still have a very strong navy and its far more likely that they lose a few colonies, if anything at all, because the French simply don't have the naval strength to attack the British Isles, nor the colonial troops to attack British colonies which effectively means that the French can't really touch them. Even the Jacobites wouldn't be able to turn that particular front in French favour because they simply don't have the strength to defeat the British without serious French support in boots on the ground.
 
I mean, that’s basically what Nova Scotia is, but I thought the name Acadia would be more unique and could also symbolize a shedding of British colonial titles, something that the large French population would appreciate.



This does have historical precedent, as Maine did lay claims deep into Canada for much of its history. Not to the St. Lawrence River, but definitely pretty close. Considering that there’s no British authorities around to prevent the approval of such a claim ITTL, Maine becomes much larger. I’d assume that later extensions to the St. Lawrence River only happened after Maine became a province, when infrastructure in the region is more developed.



ITTL, King Richard’s Land is named after Richard Arnold, who was one of Benedict Arnold’s children in OTL and was assassinated ITTL as a prelude to the American Civil War. The King Richard’s Land Territory was named in honor of the martyr king shortly after the American Civil War came to an end.
I know that about Nova Scotia. I was referencing its absence. As for extensions to the St. Lawrence, I meant the river shores would be populated before the mountains inbetween. Besides, if no one would stop Massachusetts or Maine from land claims, then they would have claimed parts you gave to New Ireland, as they did IOTL. There has to already be settlement up there unless you are making a lot of extreme changes. And unless the changes involve making Acadia fully French by shipping the Acadians from mainland there, then it does seem like it would need to be French. Or is Maine French here? The northern portions even today have high percentage of Acadian ancestry. But yah, Maine isn’t all that far from Quebec City here, so I will leave it at that. And I fully know about King Richard here, having seen it in your original post. My issue was calling it King Richard’s Land, as the early colonies where not called King George’s Land, Queen Elizabeth's Land, King Charles Land, or Duke of York’s Land.
 
For @xmoose, I think I did it on accident for France owning Luxembourg. Also, Bohemia and Silesia gain independence thanks to the collapse of the Austria Empire. I am planning on making a sequel that focuses on 1776 Europe for this timeline.
 
For @xmoose, I think I did it on accident for France owning Luxembourg. Also, Bohemia and Silesia gain independence thanks to the collapse of the Austria Empire. I am planning on making a sequel that focuses on 1776 Europe for this timeline.
Very good scenario, I think it's funny that the Spaniards take over the Austrian Netherlands.
On the other hand Bohemia and independent Silesia I have more trouble with. Prussia, Saxony and Bavaria are going to look at it and I can't see the region remaining free.
Besides, Silesia was part of the Bohemian crown, why is it separated now?
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top