Map Thread XIX

[B_Munro]

This map does run into the usual pit-trap of Italian unification happening with French support, yet Italy not ceding Savoy and Nice to France. Which is an issue, and an ugly-looking one at that too.

Were the French that hot for Savoy and Nice that it outweighs any other consideration they might have for supporting Italian unification, such as support for democracy and national sovereignty, hostility to Austrian tyranny, supporting fellow Latins with the hope of creating a potentially valuable ally, an opportunity to screw with the Habsburgs (always fun for the French), etc? Sure, Napoleon, 'cause grabbing stuff is what Napoleons do, but the average French politician? The average homme dans la rue? Were people seriously getting worked up over and drawing maps including and bemoaning the unfairness of France not owning areas that hadn't been ruled from Paris (aside from the Napoleonic interlude) since, well, never? [1]

(Of course, I may be utterly ignorant here and there was serious Nice Fever in France at the time. Please point me in the right direction!)

As for it being ugly, you're right: the kingdom of Savoy needs to be bigger.


[1] Not including the occasional "Lord so-and-so held the city for three years in the 17th century" type interludes.

 

[VigilantSycamore]

Big Persia:

 

[Library of Alexandria]

Big Persia:

View attachment 507899

0/10 no Persia, NY

 

[Bytor]

0/10 no Persia, NY

Or Persia, IA. ;-)

 

[TheNixonator]

THE CONFEDERATION OF MAYFLOWER
The four realms of the Concordat: Bethleham, Bradford, Providence, and Oceanus
National Capital: Plymouth

 

[fluttersky]

1. Why the fuck did France get Channel Britian? That's going to be at least a part of an English puppet.
2. Why did Germany only get Alsace-Lorraine? There was an area that was marked out in France for German colonisation- what changed to make that not a thing?

1) Because France lost Alsace-Lorraine (plus Briey-Longwy) and the border area with Italy, so that was what France was offered to get them on board with the Axis.

So there's a German puppet state of England (i.e. England north of the Thames), in which there's still a decent amount of resistance, and also German puppet states of Scotland and Wales.
France expels all the English people from its occupation zone to north of the Thames and calls this zone "New Normandy"; French residents of Alsace-Lorraine, Corsica, etc, who don't want to live under German or Italian rule are offered transportation to New Normandy.

2) Compromise, to have France as an ally. This is a France that actually becomes a fully-fledged member of the Axis alongside Germany and Italy.

 

[MuricanTauri1776]

Big Persia:

View attachment 507899

All it's missing is a concession city in *LA, and an *American colony.

 

[lou H]

revisited the maps that were the prototypes for my current TL since I haven't had any inspiration to actually write for it. despite this being a world map I made this with Europe in mind, as I haven't really gone into detail about it much in the TL yet. this is a glimpse 350 years into the TL's future, after the collapse of the Empire of Christendom and following exoduses, the Plague of Alexander and the delegitimatization of mainstream Christianity but before Europeans and Arabs explore the New World en masse. i was going to make a chart of ATL branches of Islam but i'm too tired. the big difference Islamic theology-wise is the rise of Ma'arism, a sort of combination of the OTL Protestant Reformation, classical Greek philosophy and a bit of proto-liberalism and atheism, all folded into Islam. the Al-Ma'arri ITTL holds pretty different views than his OTL counterpart, to say the least. southern France, more of northern India, Hungary and even Korea have all converted, thanks to Arab navigation and exploration experiencing a bit of a golden age. the spread of Islam from Albania greatly worries the waning Serbian Empire. the Roman Empire, despite losing Constantinople to the Seljuks, continues to claim continuity from a slowly converting Greece. Germany (HRE-less, it was dissolved during the Deceiving) is coming out of almost a century of religious wars, culminating in a proto-Peace of Westphalia 300 years early. Venice, England, Brittany and Austria are the major deist-irreligious powers, Venice and Brittany both having successfully fought off "crusades" from neighboring powers. Germanic paganism still holds on in Scandinavia, Iceland and small remnants in the rising and recently-Christianized power of Pomerania. in western Hahnunah, hegemonic empires start to consolidate their states, the Tongva are experiencing a golden age, and the formerly all-powerful Huatepec and Houastec empires are beginning to crack at the seams.

 

[Dorozhand]

Big Persia:

*orgasm*

 

[merkmuds]

it was dissolved during the Deceiving

What is the Deceiving?

 

[Bob Hope]

European slaves in North Africa is a totally different situation from European slaves in an African-colonized America.

@B_Munro
Why?, Europeans found it expedient to transport slave labour not because they could survive in North America but because THEY did not want to do the work.
Now, in Northern South America and the Caribbean that is a different situation, in these areas slaves from Asante raiding parties, just down the coast from Diafanu, would probably be used but, again, in the temperate southern zones, Europeans would be an option.
Of course there is always a "breeding program" to produce "disease resistant" slaves. Any born and surviving will likely have at least some protection from disease.

 

[DracoLazarus]

Were the French that hot for Savoy and Nice that it outweighs any other consideration they might have for supporting Italian unification, such as support for democracy and national sovereignty, hostility to Austrian tyranny, supporting fellow Latins with the hope of creating a potentially valuable ally, an opportunity to screw with the Habsburgs (always fun for the French), etc? Sure, Napoleon, 'cause grabbing stuff is what Napoleons do, but the average French politician? The average homme dans la rue? Were people seriously getting worked up over and drawing maps including and bemoaning the unfairness of France not owning areas that hadn't been ruled from Paris (aside from the Napoleonic interlude) since, well, never? [1]

(Of course, I may be utterly ignorant here and there was serious Nice Fever in France at the time. Please point me in the right direction!)

As for it being ugly, you're right: the kingdom of Savoy needs to be bigger.


[1] Not including the occasional "Lord so-and-so held the city for three years in the 17th century" type interludes.

Considering that unlike the County of Eastern Provence (or of Nice), the Duchy of Savoy is Arpitan, and thus not Italian, like the Valle d'Aosta (aka Southern Valais), there would be reasonable grounds for justifying not keeping it for Italy.
If only to trade it for Corsica.

 

[Ameck16]

All it's missing is a concession city in *LA, and an *American colony.

Also don't forget what white BMW factories in Germany.

 

[VigilantSycamore]

Partitions of the Holy Roman Empire:

Countries that took part in the Partitions are Denmark, the Dutch Republic, France, the Ottoman Empire, Poland, Sweden, Switzerland, and Venice

 

[Skallagrim]

Partitions of the Holy Roman Empire:

For a second there, I thought the French had gotten really ambitious.

But half of that was actually Sweden.

 

[SpudNutimus]

This map does run into the usual pit-trap of Italian unification happening with French support, yet Italy not ceding Savoy and Nice to France. Which is an issue, and an ugly-looking one at that too.

Savoy and Nice are seized by the Italians during the fall of the Second Empire, as well as Corsica. However, soon afterwards a malaria epidemic strikes the island from Algeria, and French citizens begin making a loud fuss about it. In the 1890s when Italy, Russia, and France form their alliance, the Italians sell it back to the French for a decent amount of money, seeing it as more trouble than it's worth.

 

[lou H]

What is the Deceiving?

term invented after the fact for the time period the "Kingdom of Christendom" existed, headed by a Pope-sponsored charlatan claiming to be the Second Coming, spanning from France to Germany to Greece. after the decades of war needed to "unite God's chosen people" it had an extremely short and tenuous rule, collapsing completely in the early years of the 12th century under the weight of plague, immense logistic and bureaucratic mismanagement, religious intolerance, mass deportation, severe Black Plague-level plague and invasion from Spain and Anatolia. the failure of the Church apparatus and discreditation of the False Christ led to a mass loss of faith and delegitimization of contemporary religious authority, leading to new, radically different branches of Christianity splitting off from the Church over the following century. these new denominations ranged from the Biblical purist movements of Rus' to the "godless" deists of England and Venice. the HRE collapsed with the rise of God's Kingdom, and Germany, France and Italy were thrown into two centuries of chaotic on-and-off religious warfare, culminating in the Eighty Years' War (1271 - 1366) among almost all of Germany, Northern Italy and France and Venetian Crusade (1347-1366) officially ending in the Peace of Leipzig establishing the idea of the "balance of power" on the continent, settling the chaotic borders of Central Europe after the collapse of God's Kingdom, and establishing a state's right to self-determination within its borders in domestic, military and religious matters.

 

[Nyvis]

Partitions of the Holy Roman Empire:

View attachment 508084

Countries that took part in the Partitions are Denmark, the Dutch Republic, France, the Ottoman Empire, Poland, Sweden, Switzerland, and Venice

Ottomans reaching as far as Bavaria is fun. I like it.

 

[DracoLazarus]

Savoy and Nice are seized by the Italians during the fall of the Second Empire, as well as Corsica. However, soon afterwards a malaria epidemic strikes the island from Algeria, and French citizens begin making a loud fuss about it. In the 1890s when Italy, Russia, and France form their alliance, the Italians sell it back to the French for a decent amount of money, seeing it as more trouble than it's worth.

Because seizing Savoy and Nice makes so much more sense than just getting Rome in the first place.

 

[Osk]

Here's a map I made for a wikibox I'm working on. It depicts the Dominican Kingdom of Haiti, a nation in the Union of American Realms universe covering the island of Haiti (Hispaniola ITTL). Spain ceded and recognized French control over Hispaniola ITTL at the turn of the 18th century; France subsequently moved most of the island's Spanish speaking population out by 1750. Due to the island developing as a united entity, and with the capital of the colony being in Saint-Domingue, the people began identifying as dominicaine. The island rebelled against colonial rule following the defeat of the First French Republic, but it's revolution was largely overseen by a mixture of free people of color and poor/middle class whites (along with enslaved people) as opposed to the more black vs. white approach of the OTL Haitian Revolution. In the modern era, the Dominican Kingdom is better off than both OTL Haiti and the Dominican Republic, but wouldn't exactly be considered a premier power in the world. The DK was the most profitable European colony in the entire Caribbean as a result of dominating the sugar trade, a trade the country continues to be a big player in.