Map Thread XIX

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Interesting premise, but I think there are two assumptions that are pretty off-base. First, you’re wildly overestimating the ability of the PLA to take and hold hostile territory as opposed to acting in a glorified police role. Second, even Trump could be persuaded to provide a huge amount of food aid to India to keep its people from fleeing across the border. That would also plug in nicely to his “prop up farm incomes during the trade war” initiative.

The US does not actually "feed the world", it _helps_ feed the world. The amount of food the US produces only enough to feed around another 100-150 million people besides the US population, if they ate only US product. Maybe twice as many if they lived on a near starvation diet. There are over 1.3 billion Indians, which Canadian agriculture could only feed a fraction. There is no way the US could increase food production enough to cover the difference, even if there were time to do so. I'll agree China is rather wanked here.

It’s also worth noting that China is de jure a hair larger than the US and that the US would end up ISOT’ed there, while Indonesia and India would be in the US and Canada respectively.

The numbers do vary quite a bit depending on whether one is counting water or not and whether that water includes coastal and territorial waters. Room for quite a bit of playing around with the locations of India, the US and Indonesia.
 
Mormons everywhere!

Anyhoo, a map.

ddk0l0w-c0ab0d59-77c3-4d8f-8d61-48633bd3119d.png

need to respond?
Nice. Although I have a quibble. Whenever you portray syndicalism in your scenarios you portray it as having the exact same problems as Soviet sate command economics. Whereas history lacks many good examples of Syndicalist systems what few have existed have been shown to be as reactive if not more so than capitalism. The CNT, the Korean anarchist zone, and Mondragon were all rather successful economy wise. Capitalism never really faced any mass competition from Syndicalism so we don't really no who would succeed. But projecting the Soviet Union into every non-capitalist system seems a little lazy. Other than that great map.
 

Deleted member 94708

The US does not actually "feed the world", it _helps_ feed the world. The amount of food the US produces only enough to feed around another 100-150 million people besides the US population, if they ate only US product. Maybe twice as many if they lived on a near starvation diet. There are over 1.3 billion Indians, which Canadian agriculture could only feed a fraction. There is no way the US could increase food production enough to cover the difference, even if there were time to do so. I'll agree China is rather wanked here.



The numbers do vary quite a bit depending on whether one is counting water or not and whether that water includes coastal and territorial waters. Room for quite a bit of playing around with the locations of India, the US and Indonesia.

Agreed that it doesn’t, but a huge amount of corn and soy goes to the raising of livestock. If someone rams through a state of emergency the surplus caloric value (from redirecting livestock feed and wringing the phenomenal amount of waste out of the distribution system) can probably stretch to feeding 600 million or more. Whether that’s enough or not depends on what India and the rest of the world can do.

Re: land areas... I suppose it’s close enough to fudge but everywhere else seems to go by the official numbers.
 
Agreed that it doesn’t, but a huge amount of corn and soy goes to the raising of livestock. If someone rams through a state of emergency the surplus caloric value (from redirecting livestock feed and wringing the phenomenal amount of waste out of the distribution system) can probably stretch to feeding 600 million or more. Whether that’s enough or not depends on what India and the rest of the world can do.

Huh! I didn't realize (looks online) it was quite that much. Although I think Americans will only give up their hamburgers and chicken sandwiches at gun point. :biggrin:
 
Nice. Although I have a quibble. Whenever you portray syndicalism in your scenarios you portray it as having the exact same problems as Soviet sate command economics. Whereas history lacks many good examples of Syndicalist systems what few have existed have been shown to be as reactive if not more so than capitalism. The CNT, the Korean anarchist zone, and Mondragon were all rather successful economy wise. Capitalism never really faced any mass competition from Syndicalism so we don't really no who would succeed. But projecting the Soviet Union into every non-capitalist system seems a little lazy. Other than that great map.

It's not necessarily _our_ syndicalism. But you're right: I should find another name for an alt-Communism. Any recommendations? Assume the POD is pre-Marx.
 

Deleted member 94708

Huh! I didn't realize (looks online) it was quite that much. Although I think Americans will only give up their hamburgers and chicken sandwiches at gun point. :biggrin:

Haha, I’d like to think that keeping a billion people from starving would move a lot of people to put up with it for a while, and those who don’t care mostly wouldn’t want 150 million refugees taking up residence anyway...
 
Another telephone map game post! Woo!

1_-_Reepicheep.png


The map I received from Entrerriano had a bunch of interesting implications. What really caught my eye was the potential ramifications of an alternate Migration Period in which Slavic settlers coalesced in Pannonia as opposed to the Southern Balkans. Whilst I could've made a stronger Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire, I decided instead to keep the Balkans balkanized. Ironically, a big Byzantium was exactly how one of the sub-lists progressed anyway. My head canon was increased Latin influence on the Balkans. This led to a larger Latin speaking population alongside a larger military presence in the region. This therefore made it more difficult for the migratory nomads to spread south of the Danube. The Dalmatic Republic, Muntenia, Thrace and Arbanon all speak Romance languages. Graecia speaks a heavily Latinized Greek language. Onuguria was in my mind a Turkic Western Ukraine influenced by later settlers (Bulgars or something similar).

Making this map so regionally close to the original map let me keep an obvious reference to it in the form of Serbia-in-Pannonia, hopefully tying the maps down the line together for longer. However it also limited my ability to reference other parts of the world or give a multitude of options to the next players. To counterbalance this, I chucked royalist terms on Muntenia and Serbia, while giving Thrace and Arbanon Illyrian and Spartacist in a thinly veiled and poorly thought out attempt to reference some extreme neo-pagan/Valkist ideology. To further complicate things I made Thrace's flag vaguely communist looking. I had a lot of fun with this map! I definitely won't say it's my best work, but I'm happy with it. I hope you all enjoy!
smile.gif
 
Another telephone map game post! Woo!

1_-_Reepicheep.png


The map I received from Entrerriano had a bunch of interesting implications. What really caught my eye was the potential ramifications of an alternate Migration Period in which Slavic settlers coalesced in Pannonia as opposed to the Southern Balkans. Whilst I could've made a stronger Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire, I decided instead to keep the Balkans balkanized. Ironically, a big Byzantium was exactly how one of the sub-lists progressed anyway. My head canon was increased Latin influence on the Balkans. This led to a larger Latin speaking population alongside a larger military presence in the region. This therefore made it more difficult for the migratory nomads to spread south of the Danube. The Dalmatic Republic, Muntenia, Thrace and Arbanon all speak Romance languages. Graecia speaks a heavily Latinized Greek language. Onuguria was in my mind a Turkic Western Ukraine influenced by later settlers (Bulgars or something similar).

Making this map so regionally close to the original map let me keep an obvious reference to it in the form of Serbia-in-Pannonia, hopefully tying the maps down the line together for longer. However it also limited my ability to reference other parts of the world or give a multitude of options to the next players. To counterbalance this, I chucked royalist terms on Muntenia and Serbia, while giving Thrace and Arbanon Illyrian and Spartacist in a thinly veiled and poorly thought out attempt to reference some extreme neo-pagan/Valkist ideology. To further complicate things I made Thrace's flag vaguely communist looking. I had a lot of fun with this map! I definitely won't say it's my best work, but I'm happy with it. I hope you all enjoy!
smile.gif
one of my favourite ones from the list! this is very well put together, nice cropping, nice flag, nice name placement. And best of all topography, glorious topography
 
The War Between The Provinces.png


A quick little map of Harry Turtledove's "War Between The Provinces" series I made in twenty minutes out of boredom, which is basically a retelling of the American Civil War in a high fantasy scenario. Following the death of King Buchan, his son King Avram ascends to the throne of the Kingdom of Detina. However, after Avram announces that he intends to free the nation's blond serfs, his cousin Geoffrey leads eleven of the northern provinces in a rebellion in an attempt to prevent the end of serfdom, starting the Detinan Civil War. I only labelled the provinces that we know the canon names of, since I was too lazy to come up with clever names for the various unnamed provinces.
 
Well..I was more trying to say that it shouldn't be assumed syndicalism will fail like state command economics.

Pardon me, I was being unclear: the original authors were clearly thinking of OTL "really existing Communism", even, as I said, name-checking Stalin. To avoid making my "cover" too different from the original I assumed a system which while differing from OTL Communism would still be centralized and totalitarian: I agree it's unfair to OTL syndicalism to just use their name to signal "alternate socialism" while applying it to an alien system. [1]

[1] I shouldn't use terms for different movements of the left as if they were interchangeable, but I may have been unconsciously influenced by pretty much every right of center AH writer, which generally assume any socialist movement in control of a state automatically gravitates to High Stalinism. :winkytongue:
 
[1] I shouldn't use terms for different movements of the left as if they were interchangeable, but I may have been unconsciously influenced by pretty much every right of center AH writer, which generally assume any socialist movement in control of a state automatically gravitates to High Stalinism. :winkytongue:

Don't you mean "every right of centre American AH writer"? :p
 
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