Map Thread XIX

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Were any of you aware that Hitler had a choice in 1937 between China and Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-German_cooperation_(1926–1941)

Hitler's Germany inherited agreements with China whereby Germany received much needed raw materials, in return, China received economic and military development as well as hard currency.


What if Hitler had chosen China over Japan?

Would Japan have joined the Allies or gone it alone?

Would Japan, having joined the Allies, have occupied French Indochina and Dutch Indonesia thus gaining many of the raw materials it needed?

Would Japan, having joined the Allies or not, still attack Pearl Harbour?

Would America ally with Germany as a result?


Other consequences and questions;

Availability of 50-60,000 troops and materiel committed in OTL to Singapore, presumably mainly in the UK and North Africa.

More Commonwealth troops available for transport to North Africa, the Middle East or possibly a larger response to the invasion of Greece.

With overwhelming numbers in North Africa where would Rommel see action and would he be as effective?

The importance of Malta would be lessened with less loss of ships which, along with those freed up from Singapore, could be committed against the American fleet possibly in conjunction with the Japanese.

Would the troops freed up be needed in a land war in Canada and would the fleet need to be deployed to protect convoys taking troops TO Canada or opening a second front in New Orleans/ Carolina-Georgia/ the Potomac?


Is this a war the UK and Commonwealth could win or are we talking a negotiated peace?
 
The Ousefleet Free State: its rise and fall

Grid reference SE830220 on Ordnance Survey Map 112 (covering a series of fields just south of Ousefleet, a small village in Lincolnshire), gained brief notoriety in 2003 as the least interesting square kilometer, cartographically speaking, in the entire UK. Just fifteen years later, however, it was to bear witness to the meteoric rise and fall of the Ousefleet Free State, the brainchild of a local farmer pushed over the edge by one business rates raise too many.

A map and timeline of the events is set out below.
KQ48BTl.png
 
Hitler's Germany inherited agreements with China whereby Germany received much needed raw materials, in return, China received economic and military development as well as hard currency.


What if Hitler had chosen China over Japan?
OTL Hitler's choice of Japan over China was absolutely rational. Japan could German ally unlike OTL China, so PoD that result is German-Chinese Axis in WW2 was before 1937 and related with Chinese internal politics

Would Japan, having joined the Allies, have occupied French Indochina and Dutch Indonesia thus gaining many of the raw materials it needed?
If Japan forced to defense against China then they can't occupied of SE Asia. Maximum that Japan can did is operation against Vichy and Chinese intervention if France surrendered ITTL

Would America ally with Germany as a result?
IOTL USA thought that Germany is bigger threat than Japan


PS. If China didn't lost Republican age (1911-1940) and developed as like PRC in 1950-1975 then they had GDP equal American and industrial production equal Soviet in 1940
 
The Ousefleet Free State: its rise and fall

Grid reference SE830220 on Ordnance Survey Map 112 (covering a series of fields just south of Ousefleet, a small village in Lincolnshire), gained brief notoriety in 2003 as the least interesting square kilometer, cartographically speaking, in the entire UK. Just fifteen years later, however, it was to bear witness to the meteoric rise and fall of the Ousefleet Free State, the brainchild of a local farmer pushed over the edge by one business rates raise too many.

A map and timeline of the events is set out below.
KQ48BTl.png
Yet another example of the evils of neo-imperialism. We cannot continue to let large military powers continue bullying their neighbors into submission. #FreeOusefleet
 
dKjXmE3.png

This is a transit map of one possible outcome of Kathy Whitmire's plans to build a Houston monorail, which were frustrated by the oil glut of the 1980s and finally ended when she lost re-election in 1991. Here, a less severe oil glut means that she gets to build the red and blue lines in the mid-'80s, followed by lines to both airports in the '90s.
 

Eparkhos

Banned
Lanneseveksia in 758 AM

AFo-I0HJIpmaP_bPvjq-yitaxWO50Srtl_C83-LhcrPe3wfRxxi4hpS682rETR3WBPKN68rotUzNJ1jQqROhYN9HLQsQEG063qnCIi6lEk6RvNan4WM_2lUXvO-btQ_gYKTrZznS


This clusterf*ck of a map is my attempt to show Bronze Age geopolitics. It hurts me just as badly as it does you.


The map above shows the geopolitical situation in Lanneseveksia in 758 AM, the year of the birth of the first Barkanid Emperor. The three different color groups (Brown, Orange and Blue) represent states composed of the three primary ethnic groups (Tigashar, Kumpita and Ierenib). The shaded sections of the ocean are the migrating grounds of the Kumpita, who are Sea Nomads. The non-colored sections inclosed by borders represent tributary tribes, and the shaded sections in those represent dispusted tributaries.

I'll answer of the myriad questions.​
 
The Ousefleet Free State: its rise and fall

Grid reference SE830220 on Ordnance Survey Map 112 (covering a series of fields just south of Ousefleet, a small village in Lincolnshire), gained brief notoriety in 2003 as the least interesting square kilometer, cartographically speaking, in the entire UK. Just fifteen years later, however, it was to bear witness to the meteoric rise and fall of the Ousefleet Free State, the brainchild of a local farmer pushed over the edge by one business rates raise too many.

A map and timeline of the events is set out below.

I think we can just close the thread now. No map will ever top this.
 
Just a as card please: this is here an alternative map of America, circa 1600, where vikings and roman civilisations survived, and colonize the continent, with the chinese:

1573246276-dessin.png
 
upload_2019-11-8_14-47-57.png

~300 years after St. Pierre and Miquelon was isoted to a virgin earth, but with a twist: they were given enough food and medicine until they could start their own farms and stuff (also they became immune to any disease, which became hereditary) All of the population came with, but there was 2 canadian ships in the immediate area, which was the ancestors of the Canadian Government in Exile. the former territory of St. PaM is now a refueling area, with a voyage to bermuda being done in 100 pt (post transportation), and there's many small caribbean camps for prisoners. It was found out early that there are people here, and the natives are being 'civilized', and the Wabanaki Confederacy is the closest to be a part of the New United Nations (hq's in St. John's), the population of the Uptimers is around 50,000, with most of them being on Newfoundland.
 
Lanneseveksia in 758 AM



This clusterf*ck of a map is my attempt to show Bronze Age geopolitics. It hurts me just as badly as it does you.


The map above shows the geopolitical situation in Lanneseveksia in 758 AM, the year of the birth of the first Barkanid Emperor. The three different color groups (Brown, Orange and Blue) represent states composed of the three primary ethnic groups (Tigashar, Kumpita and Ierenib). The shaded sections of the ocean are the migrating grounds of the Kumpita, who are Sea Nomads. The non-colored sections inclosed by borders represent tributary tribes, and the shaded sections in those represent dispusted tributaries.

I'll answer of the myriad questions.​
How early/late in the Bronze Age are we talking? What’s the climate and topography like there?
 
Were any of you aware that Hitler had a choice in 1937 between China and Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-German_cooperation_(1926–1941)

Hitler's Germany inherited agreements with China whereby Germany received much needed raw materials, in return, China received economic and military development as well as hard currency.


What if Hitler had chosen China over Japan?

There's no way in hell that the US is going to ally with the Third Reich, unless we're also proposing president Lindbergh or something.

There's a short AH story by Ward Moore (author of the famed early AH story "Bring the Jubilee") on this theme, called "A Class with Dr. Chang." Japan never attack the US, which ends up sitting out the war, which ends in an at least partial victory for the Reich. Unfortunately, failure to ever engage Fascism and a a feeling of having been left out of world-changing events leads the US itself to eventually go fascist (or "Americanist") and Dr. Chang's class ends badly.

300 years after St. Pierre and Miquelon was isoted to a virgin earth, but with a twist: they were given enough food and medicine until they could start their own farms and stuff (also they became immune to any disease, which became hereditary)

Unusually considerate ASBs! :)
 

Eparkhos

Banned
How early/late in the Bronze Age are we talking? What’s the climate and topography like there?

Late-Late Bronze Age. Iron is beginning to be used in Acara, which is far to the north.

As for climate...

Lanneseveksia is hot-jungle, the Ashal and Onedanga (directly west of the Ashal) are savannah, the lands to the north (Acara) are temperate plains and the Great Wastes (huge desert to the north-west) are basically the Iranian Desert, complete with the salt pans. If you'd hang on for a few minutes, I'll slap together a basic map to better illustrate.
 
Deseret.png


While in America, the Mormons had been forced into exile many times, from Missouri to Illinois to California, but during this time other arrangements would be made. A Mormon missionary by the name of George Q. Cannon had went to Hawai'i to spread his churches beliefs, and he enjoyed relative success, even getting the bible translated into the native Hawai'ian tongue. In the aftermath of the Mormon-Californian war, LDS President Brigham Young looked for a new place to locate his followers, and it was brought to his attention that Hawai'i was having a population shortage, and that a large group of natives had converted to the church. They boarded boats and set off for Hawai'i, looking for new homes and a chance to live in peace. When they got there, tensions rose between the Mormons and non Mormons, and the natives who converted where ostracized with those who moved over for being colonists and colonial supporters. While the king tolerated them, he raised a special tax on them and didn't permit them to own land. As they worked under the Hawai'ian upper class, their funds slowly drained, and President Young decided that the best way to deal with this was to restart the United Order, with some more overt socialistic tendencies, and to refuse to pay the taxes levied on Mormons. This sparked a military reaction from the Hawai'ian government, and shortly afterwards the death of Hawai'i, as the Republic of Deseret was proclaimed. The LDS Church seized control of the country, removed the upper class from power, and heavily encouraged conversions. While this was successful, it did aggravate some within the church. This state of affairs was maintained for a long period of time, as Deseret would ship out fruits and ship in the additional goods the needed, until the 1956 Revolution, where the LDS Church was forced out of power and the state was forced to secularize.

After secularization, terms and term limits where introduced upon the Deseret President, in addition to the development of a Parliament and Prime Minister. Now politics are divided between two main groups, the Liberals who seek to privatize industry in an attempt to further secularize the state, and the Labor Party who seek to further remove capitalistic elements from their government.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Map translation:
Top right: Republic of Deseret, Circa 2019
The islands are just the Hawaiian islands, but Honolulu County is still called Oahu
The big words in the ocean are "Pacific Ocean"
Box in the bottom left: Republic of Deseret
Population: 922,824
GDP: 76,076,000,000 DD (Roughly $82 billion)
Religion: 91% LDS, 9% Other
*: National Capital (Which is on Honolulu)
 
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