Map Thread XIX

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CROPPIES RISE UP

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CROPPIES RISE UP

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Cool scenario - what does the tan portion represent? Territories still held by the Brits at the cessation of hostilities? Also whats the PoD here? The Republican French soldiers landing in Bantry Bay is the usual one/most plausible one for this scenario.
 
Cool scenario - what does the tan portion represent? Territories still held by the Brits at the cessation of hostilities? Also whats the PoD here? The Republican French soldiers landing in Bantry Bay is the usual one/most plausible one for this scenario.

The tan bit is the bit still nominally under control of Britain at the cessation of hostilities. In terms of an actual PoD, it's a combination of the French landing in Bantry Bay, British intelligence being slightly less thorough in their infiltration of the various Irish insurrectionist groups and the revolutionaries around Dublin actually succeeding in intercepting the mail carriages on the first night of the rising.
 
CROPPIES RISE UP

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Derry was still called Londonderry back then. Anyways, who won? I am guessing the Irish though I find it extremely unlikely they would manage it in such a short time. Though perhaps that was what they had needed. I can't see them organizing as one coherent group though. The Americans had generations of local legislatures and high literacy rates and working postal systems. The Irish... Well, the British were even less happy to let them have schools than they were their own poor English.
 
I feel there would be more butterflies. Also amazing that the Kingdom of Arles/Burgundy isn't included in this. Kinda bizarre why Nevers is shown on the small map as its own duchy, while ignoring how Flanders, Brabant, Luxembourg, Holland, etc were all major places with their own history. People didn't just fold a bunch of duchies together. The United Duchies of Julich-Berg-Cleves is one example, or how in Iberia and Czechia they used the term Crown when having a bunch of fairly equal areas under one person. Speaking of Julich-Berg-Cleves, they had a claim over Gelderland. Might as well give it to them here as there is no way that remaining area would be independent if no other Germanic state is. Actually, could you link to the contest? I am wondering what it's requirements are. It might answer some of the questions in my head.

Ahhh, and funnily enough the parts you have as the Dutch Republic all speak Low Saxon rather than the Low Franconcian that the Brabantians, Hollanders, Flemish, etc speak.

https://www.reddit.com/r/imaginarym...ilot/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
 
I can't see them organizing as one coherent group though. The Americans had generations of local legislatures and high literacy rates and working postal systems. The Irish... Well, the British were even less happy to let them have schools than they were their own poor English.

While true about poor literacy and strong regional identities, the Irish nationalism of the period (particularly Wolfe Tone’s secular Irish nationalism that was open to Protestants) was definitely strongly “Irish” as opposed to “Munsterian”, “Leinstermen”, “Connachtment”, etc. Irish nationalism since essentially the English Conquest of the island was always focused on a united Éire - I don’t know of any group or political leader that ever advocated independence with the end goal being a disparate localized set of states after the Flight of the Earls and the end of the native Irish nobility.
 
While true about poor literacy and strong regional identities, the Irish nationalism of the period (particularly Wolfe Tone’s secular Irish nationalism that was open to Protestants) was definitely strongly “Irish” as opposed to “Munsterian”, “Leinstermen”, “Connachtment”, etc. Irish nationalism since essentially the English Conquest of the island was always focused on a united Éire - I don’t know of any group or political leader that ever advocated independence with the end goal being a disparate localized set of states after the Flight of the Earls and the end of the native Irish nobility.
I meant more about them actually organizing things. The postal service was one of the main things, as well as deciding how everything is organized. Two years does not feel like enough time to run out the much more heavily armed, fed, etc. British.
 
I meant more about them actually organizing things. The postal service was one of the main things, as well as deciding how everything is organized. Two years does not feel like enough time to run out the much more heavily armed, fed, etc. British.

Yeah, you’re right about this - Irish rebellions historically had problems coordinating action all over the country. Generally, messages could get around and days of rebellion could be scheduled but often some risings failed without the rest being aware of it and it led to serious difficulties. With a successful French army landing in Bantry Bay under the command of a skilled General like Lazare Hoche, I think the impetus of a professional force to rally behind would lead to better coordination - especially since Ireland isn’t very big and lacks the sort of geographic features that restricted communications in the Americas. The only issue here is the role the British navy could play in restricting French supply and reinforcements and keeping the war going by ferrying recruits straight into Dublin and Belfast. It would certainly be a hard fight but I don’t think it’s impossible for the Franco-Irish to win if they gain majority support (not too hard) and employ the same sort of guerrilla tactics that made Spain hell for Napoléon (though of course the terrain and size make that a harder prospect as well).
 
I meant more about them actually organizing things. The postal service was one of the main things, as well as deciding how everything is organized. Two years does not feel like enough time to run out the much more heavily armed, fed, etc. British.

Yeah, you’re right about this - Irish rebellions historically had problems coordinating action all over the country. Generally, messages could get around and days of rebellion could be scheduled but often some risings failed without the rest being aware of it and it led to serious difficulties. With a successful French army landing in Bantry Bay under the command of a skilled General like Lazare Hoche, I think the impetus of a professional force to rally behind would lead to better coordination - especially since Ireland isn’t very big and lacks the sort of geographic features that restricted communications in the Americas. The only issue here is the role the British navy could play in restricting French supply and reinforcements and keeping the war going by ferrying recruits straight into Dublin and Belfast. It would certainly be a hard fight but I don’t think it’s impossible for the Franco-Irish to win if they gain majority support (not too hard) and employ the same sort of guerrilla tactics that made Spain hell for Napoléon (though of course the terrain and size make that a harder prospect as well).

  • My map suggests more actual unity among the Irish rebels than would have happened in practice: the initial rebellion in County Antrim, for instance, would presumably have been McCracken and his Calvinist lads doing more or less their own thing Oop Noorth, while the French landed on the West Coast. While it's plausible that with more French support, the Irish Rebellion of 1798 could have succeeded, the resultant Irish state would have ended up, at least initially, with a new ruling class more Dissenter than Catholic and comprised of a loose coalition of people ranging from aristocrats who disliked FitzGibbon's administration to Jacobin sympathisers.
  • On further thought, I'm actually quite tempted to make this a proper graphic ATL, mostly dealing with the first twenty years or so of the Republic of Ireland. The PoD would be a Franco-Spanish victory at the Battle of Cape St Vincent, meaning that the British simply aren't in a position where they can intercept a French fleet heading to Bantry Bay.
 
The Hundred Kingdoms: An Alternate Britain

"While the British Isles are home to seven kingdoms that have survived into the modern day as sovereign nation-states, when that number is added to that of the counties and provinces that were traditionally kingdoms in ancient times the sum total of “kingdoms” in the isles reaches nearly fifty. Add the number of ancient kingdoms that have since faded into history to that number and it is easy to forgive the famously proud inhabitants of these isles for their poetic license in rounding up and nicknaming their homelands the ‘Hundred Kingdoms’...”

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I've seen a number of maps with similar Dark Ages Britain themes lately so I was inspired to try my own hand at it.

Native Britons do a better job of holding their own against the Saxons and are eventually able to turn the tides and gain some lands back, then eventually unite to become the strongest power in the isles. Vikings are more successful at establishing themselves in York as well as in the Isles and Ireland (where they start speaking Gaelic as in OTL but still remain a distinct ethnic group). The Picts become Gaelicized as in OTL but don't merge with Dal Riata due to the stronger Norse in Sudreyjar and so maintain a Pictish identity rather than forming a new identity of Alba/Scotland.

The Angles and Saxons are united politically but still distinct ethnic groups with different languages, the Saxons being more French-influenced and looking across the Channel at least as often as they do to their closer neighbors while the Angles maintain a heavier Germanic influence due to being under Viking rule for considerably longer; Anglish minorities also exist in the Five Boroughs in Yorkland and Hwicce in Britain and there is a movement for unification and independence (Northumbria also speaks Anglish, but Northumbrians have come to be considered a distinct people from the southern Angles). Similar linguistic nationalist movements are also emerging in Britain for speakers of Cumbrian and Dumnonian, which for much of history were dismissed as merely dialects of British but are now enjoying a renaissance. The Norn speakers and erstwhile Norwegian subjects of Orkney likewise feel more kinship to their cousins still under Norwegian rule in the Shetlands and Faroes than they do to their fellow Pictish subjects.

Saxland and Yorkland follow the Catholic Church of Rome, while the Celtic nations plus Northumbria follow the Celtic Church of Iona, which in addition to having a distinct hierarchy headed by the Patriarch of Iona rather than the Pope also follows different customs such as observing the Celtic Rite, dating Easter differently, and placing a greater emphasis on monasticism, though actual theological differences are minor. Small pockets of both Celtic and Germanic paganism (including hybrid forms) still persist in some remote islands and mountain valleys, especially in the north.


Saxon = Modern English
Anglish = Old English
Yorkish = somewhere between Old Norse and Modern Danish
Norn = somewhere between Old Norse and Modern Norwegian
British = Modern Welsh
Cumbrian = Old Welsh / Common Brittonic
Dumnonian = Cornish
Pictish = Scottish Gaelic
Gallogael = Manx Gaelic
 
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After the end of WWI and the collapse of Entente resistance, the Ottomans immediately began transferring their troops to put down the many revolts in Arabia. The Third Muwahhidun State had consolidated it's power against the local Ottoman darlings of the Rashidis of Ha'il, and after defeating the remnants of the "arab revolt" in the Battle of Karbala began to assist their Rashidi allies against the Muwahhidun state. Germany ultimately tried to be as lenient as possible to the British empire, hoping that a "peaceful and agreeable treaty" would lead to British isolationism. The Ottomans were ultimately not allowed to take significant amounts of land from Britain, though the capture of the Sultan of Kuwait and the defeat of the British expeditionary force in Kuwait, along with an Idrisid march south against the poorly equipped and poorly defended British allied emirates which both lead to the Fall of Aden and the evacuation of British interests from Arabia. However, the Sultan of Oman, insulated from a direct Ottoman attack by the Rub al-Khali desert and having been a powerful naval force in the region for centuries, reaffirmed it's status as alligned to the British, though on somewhat more equal terms. In Persia, Wilhelm Wassmuss was able to gain an audience with the Sultan of Persia, who's support of Central Powers influences in the region was instrumental to the continued successes of Central Powers forces against Entente aligned interests. However, Wassmuss, who at this point had become deeply entrenched in the Persian government and had a slew of political allies in the court of Persia to the point that some claimed that the Sultan himself was Wassmuss' puppet, was ordered to remain in Persia. This was seen as incredible betrayal by the Ottoman Empire, who feared a German/Bulgarian invasion augmented by Persian forces from the east. However, at the Treaty of Abha, the German Empire recognized Ottoman power over the Caucuses and especially Azerbaijan and fleshed out a far more permanent alliance between Germany, Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire. Among other things, the Berlin to Baghdad Railway (Which would become the Brussels to Bandar superhighway) was solidified and economic terms were fleshed out. Meanwhile, in central Najd, a combined Rashidi-Ottoman force took Deriyya/Riyad in 1922, sacking the city and sending the leaders of the Muwahhidun movement into exile in at first Constantinople and later Brazil, where who was once Prince Faisal of Arabia would become President Faisal of Brazil, but that is a story for another day.

Map set in 1925.
 
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where who was once Prince Faisal of Arabia would become President Faisal of Brazil, but that is a story for another day.

For my (in the scheme of things quite short) year on the board, I have never really been baffled by an idea in an a work. I've read nightrise, I've seen some quite godawful maps (some of which were even written by me), and yet, I still have not had a post that raises all five questions- until now. Who? What? When? Where? Why?
Who the fuck voted for a theocratic Muslim in a Catholic Brazil?
What were his campaign promises?
When was he elected?
Where did he have strongest support?
Why did you think that was a good idea?

I'm so confused.
 
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