Map Thread XIX

Status
Not open for further replies.
Plan Foch, in which Foch's proposition to detach the Rhineland as a separate state, to permanently weaken Germany and establish a buffer. This is all achieved at the Paris Peace Conferences via the Treaty of Versailles. This will serve as a crux of my Alternate Poland timeline.

ddgs5t9-13c42b4e-eb01-4a98-822f-5e99f83e9c0e.png
 
Plan Foch, in which Foch's proposition to detach the Rhineland as a separate state, to permanently weaken Germany and establish a buffer. This is all achieved at the Paris Peace Conferences via the Treaty of Versailles. This will serve as a crux of my Alternate Poland timeline.

ddgs5t9-13c42b4e-eb01-4a98-822f-5e99f83e9c0e.png

Cursed be the French yokels. :3
 
Plan Foch, in which Foch's proposition to detach the Rhineland as a separate state, to permanently weaken Germany and establish a buffer. This is all achieved at the Paris Peace Conferences via the Treaty of Versailles. This will serve as a crux of my Alternate Poland timeline.

ddgs5t9-13c42b4e-eb01-4a98-822f-5e99f83e9c0e.png
You are aware that the obvious compromise which does not reek of French Puppet State would be to merge it with Alsace-Lorraine for One Big Honking Industrial Borderland Neither Of You Can Have.
 
You are aware that the obvious compromise which does not reek of French Puppet State would be to merge it with Alsace-Lorraine for One Big Honking Industrial Borderland Neither Of You Can Have.

Why stop there, when you can merge it with Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands, and re-found Lotharingia? What could possibly go wrong?
 
You are aware that the obvious compromise which does not reek of French Puppet State would be to merge it with Alsace-Lorraine for One Big Honking Industrial Borderland Neither Of You Can Have.
A better compromise would be... Well, Luxembourg deliberately put a lot of French in their German.
Why stop there, when you can merge it with Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands, and re-found Lotharingia? What could possibly go wrong?
It is Lorraine in French, so- Hmm, would they use French as the official language? Probably one of the three or four. Still, I feel it would give the wrong impression to give such a large state that name. Alsace would be miffed if they were no longer in the name, but they might be able to work around it. Maybe just having everything loosely organized and called the Confederation of the Rhine might work.
 
0aGTlZK.png


The collapse of central authority in Britain during the Bad Times led to much of its infrastructure becoming effectively unusable within fifteen years: the technology available to the survivors proved insufficient to ensure that tarmacked roads remained functional, while railway tracks were torn up to provide a source of steel.

In its place, the vestigial canal system, along with navigable rivers, rapidly became the primary goods transport vector, especially in the Midlands. This shift led to the rise of the Bargemen: claiming direct descent from a pre-Bad Times guild, this loose fraternity of barge workers has coalesced over the last five hundred years into an organisation ruling much of the centre of England via its control of waterways and market towns, all overseen by the elected Mare of Brum, symbolically “married” to the canals around Brum annually. With levies from their market towns augmented by mercenaries from Norfuk and the Ummah al-Bradford, the Bargemen will likely hoist their rose and castle banners over the waterways of the Midlands far into the future.
 
Here's yet another new entry for the RDNA-verse! This one, though is for the Vatican-in-Exile. Which is both a state and something of a state of mind, representing what became of the Catholic Church in the timeline. The original link can be found here.

The map-profile is a heavily expanded and updated take on this entry from 2010, which all things considered has held up rather well. While some details either remain consistent with older content or in line with more recent lore, this has also been a good opportunity to begin reworking South America. In this case, it's not only reintroducing the Legitimate Union of Brazil/Portuguese Brazil, but also retconning its flag into something far more professional. In addition, the references to Psalm 137 in the profile and text (aka that Bible passage from Fallout: New Vegas) will make much more sense in-context.

And just to be on the safe side, this is a work of fiction. While the map itself is framed as something from within the setting (in this case, it's something produced in-universe by the Vatican-in-Exile), this is not meant to be an ideological or propagandizing work. Nor does it represent my religious views.

At any rate, while this is comparatively darker despite appearances, I hope you all enjoy this. And Godspeed!

----
The Vatican-in-Exile: An Introduction

"By the rivers of Babylon there we sat weeping when we remembered Zion," as written in Scripture.

For over two thousand years, the Holy See has stood firm against the tides of the world. Despite the loss of Rome and St. Peter's Basilica itself to the Collectivists in 1928, however, the Catholic Church endures still. Currently under the guidance of Pope Pius XIII from the New World, the Vatican-in-Exile continues to keep true to the promise of Scripture that the gates of hell would not prevail against it.

A direct successor to the Papal States (which endured as the autonomous Vatican State in the Kingdom of the Two Italies after 1863), the Vatican-in-Exile is based from the traditionally religious city of Mariazell-am-Meer, a semi-autonomous enclave jointly administrated with the Royal Dominion of New Austria since the 1938 Papal Concordat. While the Holy See possesses a number of scattered properties mostly found across the Americas, however, ever since the Second Vatican Council convened in 1951, it has recognized special sovereignty over the São Bento Papal Territory in Rio de Janeiro (a Brazilian concession), and the Sovereign Knights of Malta (nominally a South Italian protectorate). Each of these territories, where the formal line between Church and State are heavily blurred, has its own particular story.

Mariazell-am-Meer, in particular, has lived up to its name almost from its founding in 1564 as a religious community by Benedictine monks from the distant Alps. By the 18th Century, it had already become a pilgrimage site for Catholics across the burgeoning Habsburg and Spanish colonies. By the 1874 Reforms, it was the site of myriad alleged miracles and increasingly served as a major trading center rivaling the older Portkreuz. Combined with long-standing connections between the Papacy and Habsburgs (through old Imperial patronage going back to the Holy Roman Empire), it came as little surprise that following the Terror, then-Pope Leo XIV and much of what was left of the Roman Curia found sanctuary there even amidst the chaos of the Upheaval; those left behind opted to administer to the doomed Italian soldiers who sacrificed themselves (as part of "Case Rubicon") to defend what's now the Kingdom of South Italy. Not only were the 1927 Papal Concordat (originally granting a 10 year lease) and the subsequent one in 1938 signed there, but it also came to be host to several relics, artifacts, precious works of art. To this day, the city remains the closest thing to a "capital" the Holy See has, with a rather Italian flair (owing in part to refugees and clergymen hailing from the Italian Peninsula), its own legislature (the reconstituted Roman Curia), a security force (the Guardia Pontificia or Päpstlichegarde) and even its own laws, albeit heavily influenced by New Austrian standards.

Meanwhile, the São Bento Papal Territory in the Legitimate Union of Brazil can trace its origins to the founding of its namesake monastery (formally called the Abadia de Nossa Senhora do Monserrate) in 1590. Although originally situated in Rio de Janeiro itself, it was moved further north in the 17th Century, where it expanded through a combination of charity and sugarcane profits. Eventually, the complex became the heart of a network of colleges, seminaries and others institutions scattered through the city by the 1860s. The advent of the Terror changed everything. While many surviving European cardinals fled to New Austria (among them the man who became Pope Pius XII), some found sanctuary in what had come to be called the São Bento District, bringing with them as much of the old Vatican Secret Archives as could be saved. After contact was made with Mariazell-am-Meer, the Brazilian and Portuguese clergy soon appealed to the newly coronated King Afonso VII of the Braganza dynasty to recognize "Pontifical jurisdiction" in 1932. With the Second Vatican Council, this arrangement has been formalized as an indefinitely leased concession, with the Pope having a second residence in the abbey itself. Despite the "Military Interregnum" following the 1992 Belem Incident (that all but killed the Lusitanian Throne) and growing clout of republicans backed by Gran Patagonia, the ruling junta still respects the arrangement.

Then, there's the Sovereign Knights of Malta, often considered the last of the so-called "Crusader Kingdoms." Nominally a South Italian protectorate since 1870 (as the Kingdom of the Two Italies), it is ruled by Grand Master Alfonso Zimmerman and is a direct continuation of the famed Knights Hospitaller. While their origins could be traced to the 11th Century, they established themselves on Malta in 1530 through Imperial Decree and Habsburg support, in response to threats posed by the Ottoman Empire. Though initially seen as occupiers by the locals, over time a sense of fire-forged solidarity emerged between subject and liege. The end of the 19th Century, in fact, saw the small island realm become as known for its seafaring position in the Mediterranean as its piety and strategic value. The Terror, however, would see the Knights reaffirm their fealty to the Holy See even while upholding their Italian ties. The turmoil endured by the Maltese as more fled the Continent, however, combined with the harrowing experiences as Case Rubicon reached its bloody conclusion (ending with the brutal defense of Napoli in 1937), helped spur a militant fervour unseen in centuries. Thus, while their zealotry and calls for a final Crusade tend to be seen as excessive by those in Palermo or even by some cardinals in Mariazell-am-Meer, few would deny their dedication to the Faith or their vital role in helping keep what remains of the "Free World" in Europe intact.

As invoked more than once by clergymen, Scripture may preach peace. But when Christendom itself is threatened, it is every Christian's duty, Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant, to defend all that is holy. Undoubtedly, the Vatican-in-Exile has done its part in living up to such words in the continuing stand against Collectivism. Amidst the changing tides, there's a certain reassurance in knowing that the Almighty is still with the faithful. Nonetheless, the memory of what was lost remains. As does the threat posed by the heretical "Will of the Workers."

So it is written, "Desolate Daughter Babylon, you shall be destroyed, blessed the one who pays you back what you have done us!"

- “The Knowledgeable Traveller’s Guide to the New World.” Royal Dominion of New Austria. 2023 Edition. English Edition.

----

For added context, the São Bento Monastery is an actual institution in Rio de Janeiro, though in real life, it remains in its original spot in the heart of the city. Similarly, the Sovereign Knights of Malta are a real Catholic order (whether as the Order of Knights of the Hospital of Saint John of Jerusalem or simply the Knights Hospitaller) and for centuries also ruled Malta.

The (infamous) Psalm 137 is often classified as a "communal lament," in context reflecting the Babylonian exile and the Jewish yearning for what was lost. Commonly known as "By the rivers of Babylon", the notoriety tends to come from the final verses (including "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones".), which are a vengeful plea against the foe. Or alternatively, the psalm's writer venting anger against the enemy. Whichever way, the prevalence of this and similar passages among Christians in the RDNA-verse says a bit about just how tense the century-long Cold War truly is.

Apart from the Latin, the Italian and German translations for Psalm 137 are derived from Catholic Bibles in said languages.

----​
EDIT: Some slight tweaks and corrections

ddgpwnn-531a6a18-44cb-4986-a024-61f16109b2de.png
 
Last edited:
A better compromise would be... Well, Luxembourg deliberately put a lot of French in their German.

It is Lorraine in French, so- Hmm, would they use French as the official language? Probably one of the three or four. Still, I feel it would give the wrong impression to give such a large state that name. Alsace would be miffed if they were no longer in the name, but they might be able to work around it. Maybe just having everything loosely organized and called the Confederation of the Rhine might work.
They could call it Burgundy. Sure, it’s not where historical Burgundy was, but since when has that stopped people?
 

Deleted member 107125

Plan Foch, in which Foch's proposition to detach the Rhineland as a separate state, to permanently weaken Germany and establish a buffer. This is all achieved at the Paris Peace Conferences via the Treaty of Versailles. This will serve as a crux of my Alternate Poland timeline.

ddgs5t9-13c42b4e-eb01-4a98-822f-5e99f83e9c0e.png
Thank you Pilsudski, very cool! What does this have to do with Poland?
 
They could call it Burgundy. Sure, it’s not where historical Burgundy was, but since when has that stopped people?
If we are going with the Low Countries being united with the group then it would include much of what Burgundy-Valois once had, though it is indeed missing the Franc-Comte (County of Burgundy), Bourgogne (Duchy of Burgundy), or the Rhoneland (Kingdom of Burgundy). I am now trying to imagine the ugly flag they would have if they tried to put orange and burgundy on it. Anyways, during the Holy Roman Empire there was a Burgundian circle, which was made up entirely of the Low Countries, Franc-Comte, and some areas around Artois. it would only be suitable a name for a loose confederation of independent states.
Thank you Pilsudski, very cool! What does this have to do with Poland?
Ruhrpolen.
 
Last edited:
If we are going with the Low Countries being united with the group then it would include much of what Burgundy-Valois once had, though it is indeed missing the Franc-Comte (County of Burgundy), Bourgogne (Duchy of Burgundy), or the Rhoneland (Kingdom of Burgundy). I am now trying to imagine the ugly flag they would have if they tried to put orange and burgundy on it.

Can't they just use a Burgundian cross on white (maybe have the cross be orange instead of red).
 
Can't they just use a Burgundian cross on white (maybe have the cross be orange instead of red).
I don't see anyone wanting such an ugly flag, especially when it was a symbol used by the people the Dutch, Flemish, etc fought to get away from. Some more successfully than others. I also imagine that actually even using the color orange might be tricky unless there is something symbolizing each area. The Dutch Royals had to call themselves the House of Oranje due to demands from the French... Hmmm, that isn't really related to this, is it? Still, if we want something to really tie this area together then having ten Duchy of Nassau somehow keep independent of Prussia on a map would be ideal. The exiled family ended up getting Luxembourg due to the differences between Dutch and German inheritance rules. Having the Duchy of Nassau, the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, and possibly the Duchy of Limburg (minus Maastricht and such) under a single Grand Duke would really tie the place together. And just imagine if Jülich-Cleves-Berg stuck around. The Prussians might have stayed to Poland and Franconian, as they only got Rhenish lands when helping to disembowl the area.
 
[QUOTE = "Clandango, post: 19515553, member: 46290"] I am now trying to imagine the ugly flag they would have if they tried to put orange and burgundy on it[/ CITATION]

Something like this?

1569256108-drapeau.png



Yes, I know it's the bad thread to post this but it's one suggestion. ^^
 
Something like this?Yes, I know it's the bad thread to post this but it's one suggestion. ^^
Indeed, probably best we don't continue on the track, as what most of us are speaking of isn't actuallly about the map in question. We should all look back a few pages at the map of Poland from the same timeline, in which Austria somehow takes even more land from Hungary. I imagine there are changes everywhere involving these sorts of things.
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top