Map Thread XIX
- Thread starter water123
- Start date
- Status
Such a thing can be excused. I found it hard enough to get the old spellings sorted and I'm writing a medieval Wales TL.
adding a 1701 religion map:
For more maps like this, see https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...l-atlas-for-alternatehistorians.471153/page-5
Last edited:
Well it's more if they're gonna spend the effort on West Saxon spelling they damn well better do Old Welsh as wellSuch a thing can be excused. I found it hard enough to get the old spellings sorted and I'm writing a medieval Wales TL.
I hope that’s alternate history, because lots of it is inaccurate
For exemple, No way the Philippines are so catholic in 1701 before the , and why are you putting the Maputo region as catholic while there was no sustained european presence there at the time? In Mozambique you should put the Nampula and mouth of the Zambezi as having. *small* Catholic population, nowhere near a majority
A map of North America in a world where in the mid-20th Century the USA becomes dystopian, and as a result there are multiple secessions:
The Civil Rights movement turned into an actual revolution in response to increased suppression by the government, leading to the independence of New Afrika, while underground socialists movements in Appalachia and parts of the Northeast weaponized the peoples' frustration with the government and started their own secessionist movements, leading to the People's Republic of Appalachia and the Republic of Ipohiana (a name derived from Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Hudson [upstate New York], and Indiana].
The short-lived Great Lakes Republic got absorbed into Canada, which split Ontario into Ontario and Huron, while the reverse happened in West Canada - with separatist states getting absorbed into American separatists like the Great Plains Republic, the Rocky Mountains Republic, and the Federation of Pacifica. Other countries that broke away from Canada managed to stay independent - Quebec and Newfoundland being two examples, which indirectly led to New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island applying to join the much-reduced USA. Another example is the First Nations Union, which actually managed to expand since its initial independence, gaining most of Alaska, as well as Greenland.
The First Nation Union is now one of North America's Native Republics, and there's an Inuit independence movement that's gained enough steam to warrant an upcoming referendum. The other Native Republics are: the Union of Dinetah, formed by the Navajo, Pueblo, and Apache people, with autonomous regions for each group; and Oklahoma, which is really the eastern half of the former state as the west has been absorbed by Texas.
Speaking of Texas, they've developed a bit of an expansionist tendency: as Mexico also collapsed, Texas invaded and annexed the Rio Grande Republic, and is already claiming the east half of the neighbouring state of Aztlan, formed from the southwest US and northwest Mexico.
The Kingdom of Hawaii isn't one of the Native Republics - for obvious reasons - but they do have a good relationship with them. Hawaii has also gained a lot of the USA's former Pacific territories by default and is now pushing the idea of a pan-Polynesian Kingdom of Hawaii. They've been more successful in the North Pacific than in the South Pacific, but their movement has inspired a Maori counterpart, as well as encouraging the independence movement in French Polynesia (which was given the USA's South Pacific territories when the American government decided to focus on what they had left in North America and the Atlantic).
The remainder of the USA is a fairly small state, confined to North America's Atlantic Coast and parts of the Caribbean - Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands have both ascended to statehood, as have the Bahamas, who joined after Cuba and the USA both showed interest in annexing them and they realized they were going to lose their independence one way or another. This incident kicked off the Cuban-American War.
The Civil Rights movement turned into an actual revolution in response to increased suppression by the government, leading to the independence of New Afrika, while underground socialists movements in Appalachia and parts of the Northeast weaponized the peoples' frustration with the government and started their own secessionist movements, leading to the People's Republic of Appalachia and the Republic of Ipohiana (a name derived from Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Hudson [upstate New York], and Indiana].
The short-lived Great Lakes Republic got absorbed into Canada, which split Ontario into Ontario and Huron, while the reverse happened in West Canada - with separatist states getting absorbed into American separatists like the Great Plains Republic, the Rocky Mountains Republic, and the Federation of Pacifica. Other countries that broke away from Canada managed to stay independent - Quebec and Newfoundland being two examples, which indirectly led to New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island applying to join the much-reduced USA. Another example is the First Nations Union, which actually managed to expand since its initial independence, gaining most of Alaska, as well as Greenland.
The First Nation Union is now one of North America's Native Republics, and there's an Inuit independence movement that's gained enough steam to warrant an upcoming referendum. The other Native Republics are: the Union of Dinetah, formed by the Navajo, Pueblo, and Apache people, with autonomous regions for each group; and Oklahoma, which is really the eastern half of the former state as the west has been absorbed by Texas.
Speaking of Texas, they've developed a bit of an expansionist tendency: as Mexico also collapsed, Texas invaded and annexed the Rio Grande Republic, and is already claiming the east half of the neighbouring state of Aztlan, formed from the southwest US and northwest Mexico.
The Kingdom of Hawaii isn't one of the Native Republics - for obvious reasons - but they do have a good relationship with them. Hawaii has also gained a lot of the USA's former Pacific territories by default and is now pushing the idea of a pan-Polynesian Kingdom of Hawaii. They've been more successful in the North Pacific than in the South Pacific, but their movement has inspired a Maori counterpart, as well as encouraging the independence movement in French Polynesia (which was given the USA's South Pacific territories when the American government decided to focus on what they had left in North America and the Atlantic).
The remainder of the USA is a fairly small state, confined to North America's Atlantic Coast and parts of the Caribbean - Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands have both ascended to statehood, as have the Bahamas, who joined after Cuba and the USA both showed interest in annexing them and they realized they were going to lose their independence one way or another. This incident kicked off the Cuban-American War.
2030 with an hopefully improved Americas. I don't really intend to change China or the Australian States. Questions and Feedback appreciated.
That looks pretty interesting. What's the POD? Also, I've seen the names Cymru and Alba before, but where do the names Dewnan and Gogleddwyr come from?
Strictly speaking, Dumnonia should be Dyfnaint in Welsh.
As for "Gogleddwyr", that's the demonym for North(ern) Men. It should be "Y Gogledd" (i.e. North), as a reference to the Old North.
Maps from a TL where the United States absorbs Mexico in 1848. The present day is 1930.
Political/Administrative: This map shows the states of the USA and its satellites in Central and South America. Note that most of the Mexican states were left in their 1848 borders, but the US administration created the Territory of Mexico from south-central Mexico and absorbed the secessionist Republic of Yucatan. Also note that the southern Californian state, Colorado, was created before Baja California was formed as a state from the Sonora Territory. Baja California and Colorado have never been united.
Ideological: The primary political parties in the United States are the Republicans (liberal, represented in yellow), Democrats (conservative, represented in blue), and Socialists (socialist, represented in darker red).
The Socialists are most popular in the Steel Belt (midwest), and the Brass Belt (Pacific Mexico). They tend toward a more syndical model of socialism, favor protectionist trade policies, prefer workplace democracy to economic planning, oppose military interventionism, and advocate for extensive separation of church and state. The Socialists are the third strongest political party in the US.
The Republicans are most popular in the Great Plains, Northeast, and the Valley of Mexico. They favor free trade, deregulation of the economy, subsidies for businesses, and religious pluralism. They tend to be in favor of expanding the military and support some military interventions, but are not actively expansionist. They are popular in the Great Plains and Northeast for their emphasis on agrarian issues and small-town life, and their pandering to the German-American vote. They are also well liked in Texas due to their support for the oil industry.
The Democrats are most popular in the Gulf Southeast and the Pacific Southwest regions. They are associated with old hierarchies, and enjoy the support of the Mexican cavalier class in the Pacific Southwest and the southeastern planter class. The Democrats support a protectionist trade policy, promote economic regulations, view faith as an important part of both public and private life regardless of whether one is Catholic or Protestant, and support the expansion of the United States in the Caribbean, Pacific, or into Quebec.
The other two parties in the United States are the Radicals, who are anarcho-communist and are mainly supported by the natives in southern Mexico, and the Cristeros, who are Catholic supremacists and seek to separate Mexico from the United States as a theocratic republic.
Outside of the United States, most of its client states are right-wing liberal (gold), nationalist and state-capitalist (orange), or reactionary nationalist (dark blue).
Democracy:
Brightest green (New Hampshire, New Jersey, Delaware, California) indicates the most free states, with regular and contested elections, a culture of free speech and free assembly, and universal suffrage for men and women.
Yellower green indicates mostly free states, with regular and contested elections, but without women's suffrage or with widespread voter suppression against minorities.
Yellow indicates flawed democracies. These states lack a democratic culture due to the legacy of slavery, strict class hierarchies, religious influences, or gerrymandering and machine politics rendering the actual votes irrelevant.
Lighter orange indicates hybrid regimes, with power sharing between the state and undemocratic entities such as the Radicals and Cristeros or the Oklahoma Mafia. This also indicates territories, due to their lack of political representation.
Orange indicates authoritarian regimes, like the US puppet states in El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Venezuela, or the communist filibusters in Belize.
Red indicates totalitarian regimes. The Empire of Haiti is the only example depicted, and is like a cross between nineteenth century Paraguay and the Reign of Terror in France, all presided over by the House of Soulouque.
Political/Administrative: This map shows the states of the USA and its satellites in Central and South America. Note that most of the Mexican states were left in their 1848 borders, but the US administration created the Territory of Mexico from south-central Mexico and absorbed the secessionist Republic of Yucatan. Also note that the southern Californian state, Colorado, was created before Baja California was formed as a state from the Sonora Territory. Baja California and Colorado have never been united.
Ideological: The primary political parties in the United States are the Republicans (liberal, represented in yellow), Democrats (conservative, represented in blue), and Socialists (socialist, represented in darker red).
The Socialists are most popular in the Steel Belt (midwest), and the Brass Belt (Pacific Mexico). They tend toward a more syndical model of socialism, favor protectionist trade policies, prefer workplace democracy to economic planning, oppose military interventionism, and advocate for extensive separation of church and state. The Socialists are the third strongest political party in the US.
The Republicans are most popular in the Great Plains, Northeast, and the Valley of Mexico. They favor free trade, deregulation of the economy, subsidies for businesses, and religious pluralism. They tend to be in favor of expanding the military and support some military interventions, but are not actively expansionist. They are popular in the Great Plains and Northeast for their emphasis on agrarian issues and small-town life, and their pandering to the German-American vote. They are also well liked in Texas due to their support for the oil industry.
The Democrats are most popular in the Gulf Southeast and the Pacific Southwest regions. They are associated with old hierarchies, and enjoy the support of the Mexican cavalier class in the Pacific Southwest and the southeastern planter class. The Democrats support a protectionist trade policy, promote economic regulations, view faith as an important part of both public and private life regardless of whether one is Catholic or Protestant, and support the expansion of the United States in the Caribbean, Pacific, or into Quebec.
The other two parties in the United States are the Radicals, who are anarcho-communist and are mainly supported by the natives in southern Mexico, and the Cristeros, who are Catholic supremacists and seek to separate Mexico from the United States as a theocratic republic.
Outside of the United States, most of its client states are right-wing liberal (gold), nationalist and state-capitalist (orange), or reactionary nationalist (dark blue).
Democracy:
Brightest green (New Hampshire, New Jersey, Delaware, California) indicates the most free states, with regular and contested elections, a culture of free speech and free assembly, and universal suffrage for men and women.
Yellower green indicates mostly free states, with regular and contested elections, but without women's suffrage or with widespread voter suppression against minorities.
Yellow indicates flawed democracies. These states lack a democratic culture due to the legacy of slavery, strict class hierarchies, religious influences, or gerrymandering and machine politics rendering the actual votes irrelevant.
Lighter orange indicates hybrid regimes, with power sharing between the state and undemocratic entities such as the Radicals and Cristeros or the Oklahoma Mafia. This also indicates territories, due to their lack of political representation.
Orange indicates authoritarian regimes, like the US puppet states in El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Venezuela, or the communist filibusters in Belize.
Red indicates totalitarian regimes. The Empire of Haiti is the only example depicted, and is like a cross between nineteenth century Paraguay and the Reign of Terror in France, all presided over by the House of Soulouque.
Oh.. alright I shall fix those issues. Anything else incorrect?
Very cool.
Is there a particular reason you decided to go with Dutch, or it just seemed cool?
Dewnans is Cornish, actually! Likewise, the other placenames are all in local languages (derived from Common Brythonic when it wasn't an OTL language). Cumbric/"Gocledian" is intended to be its own, more phonologically conservative language, which is why, for instance, the city/province of York is called Efrauc rather than Efrog. That's also why it's Gogleddwyr rather than Y Gogledd, inspired by Cymru itself being a zero-derivation (with a later spelling change) from Cymry.
This is meant to be set in the modern day! Trust me, I would've looked into Old or Middle Welsh if this had been medieval.Well it's more if they're gonna spend the effort on West Saxon spelling they damn well better do Old Welsh as well
Last edited:
Worth noting as well that the "original" SW Brythonic would probably have been roughly Devneinth (though spelled Defneint) which lead to Cornish Dewnans and Breton Devnent, but also West Saxon Defnas referring to the inhabitants which lead to Defn for the land, then spelled by the Normans as Devon.
Ah, yes, the Oklahomafia. Instead of zoot suits, they wear regular suits with ties patterned in traditional Cherokee symbols.
Well, right, but again, the current year is 2019, so they're not speaking SW Brythonic anymore, they're speaking "Dumnonian" (Cornish)
If you all are looking forward, I have several map plans for my own USA TL. Just sit tight.
OOC: Special thanks to @HeX for his More Perfect Union TL, which was a key inspiration for this map.
I will admit that this plan I had asks more questions than it does answer. Though here are the pivotal details:
- The Spanish Empire does not fall for longer (again, TTL is still being conceptualized, so you can imagine your own butterflies).
- Andrew Jackson's plan to relocate Native Americans is aborted after negotiation.
- The US' history of racial equality start in the 1830s, with the banning of slavery.
- Segregation is fought over ITTL's Civil War, which involves Virginia on the Union's Side. Afterwards, the initially vague definition of 'state's rights' is revised to refer specifically to individual government budgets, and is explicitly stated to not be an excuse for racial segregation.
- The Spanish-American war of TTL is in the 1880s, and ends with Baja California, Cuba, Sonora, and Chihuahua in the Union.
- The Qing Dynasty ITTL proceeds to modernize, and particularly favors British influence for its government system, and the US for its transport systems.
- During the late 1800s, Liberals in British Parliament begin viewing the USA as everything the British Empire could, and indeed should, be. Which jumpstarts its evolution into the Commonwealth of Nations.
- Teddy Roosevelt is elected in 1912, and leads the US in immediately after the sinking of the Lusitania.
- Versailles is notably less harsh on Germany. As the only overseas territories they are forced to give away are those in China (to Japan), Camaroon (to France), and the eastern half of German East Africa (to the UK). Domestically, they do cede both Prussias to the Russian Empire, and Allaisce-Lorraine back to France.
- Arabia and Kurdistan pop up when the UK backs out of the agreement with France to split the former Ottoman Empire.
- In the 1920s, an Orthodox theocracy rises in Russia. As such, Anglo-American backed revolutions arise in Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia. This leads to an exceptionally bitter and vengeful Russia.
- Russia and Japan begin to have an uncomfortable degree of influence over China...
Last edited:
The United States from the end of Southern Victory, immediately after their reabsorption of the Confederacy following the end of the Second Great War, 1944.
- Status