Map Thread XIX

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I don't think the US would have flourished, or anything, but I've got confidence in its ability to at least survive, same for Mexico. And I may just be a suffering optimist, but I think that in an apocalyptic scenario the whites, Hispanics, and Indians of the Southwest would have been able to band together to rough it out, at the very least.

Also, why would the British Empire ever relocate to India? Even here, one of its white dominions, Australia (technically not a Dominion yet, but still), is alive and kicking. Why didn't Queen Victoria just move to Sydney, or Melbourne, or more likely Brisbane since it's closer to the equator than either of those other choices? Seems like Stirling needs to think about his scenarios more.

Even if the Federal Government got wiped out, that's not going to wipe out, say, Arkansas. Or Mississippi. Or Texas. And California collapsing into "wierdly theocratic city states" never made sense. There should at least be surviving state governments all over the place.

And the climate-shift plus tsunami shouldn't be enough to collapse Mexico, even if the tsunami could reach the coast.

Yeah, I'm with both of you guys. I admit I'm not well-versed in Peshawar Lancers, but I am put off by the amount of America-screws even if I like some of them.

It be interesting to explore what is left of the USA/America rumps in the South and West, or even a Second CSA to rise from the chaos, or a Western Republic.

It's the same in Doomsday 1983, with New Britain being based in South Africa while Australia and New Zealand forms one of the new major powers.

So yeah, more with North America and the British Empire in Australia would be cool to see.
 
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Yeah, I'm with both of you guys. I admit I'm not well-versed in Peshawar Lancers, but I am put off by the amount of America-screws even if I like some of them.

It be interesting to explore what is left of the USA/America trumps in the South and West, or even a Second CSA to rise from the chaos, or a Western Republic.

It's the same in Doomsday 1983, with New Britain being based in South Africa while Australia and New Zealand forms one of the new major powers.

So yeah, more with North America and the British Empire in Australia would be cool to see.
I have been inspired by this discussion and am now currently working on such a thing. It shall be an Ameri-screw no more!
 
I have been inspired by this discussion and am now currently working on such a thing. It shall be an Ameri-screw no more!

That's great!

What about the Caliphate of Damascus? (Basically a Neo-Ottoman Empire.) Seems like it was created as space filler when one could have had fun with several states in the Balkans and Middle East, with Damascus as one of them.

Same for Russian Empire in Central Asia. Southwestern Russia would be much better for the Russian Empire. Could even do a new Kievan Rus and take a lot of where the Caliphate of Damascus would be at. Take out the ritualistic cannibalism, but make Chernobog a good guy (Dark is not evil), or something.
 
Same for Russian Empire in Central Asia. Southwestern Russia would be much better for the Russian Empire. Could even do a new Kievan Rus and take a lot of where the Caliphate of Damascus would be at. Take out the ritualistic cannibalism, but make Chernobog a good guy (Dark is not evil), or something.

I'm surprised that the Russians didn't go for "this is a punishment from God, we should be as massively fundamentalist as possible" instead of going the dark satanic cannibal cult route.
 
I don't care one way or the other about Peshawar Lancers but AH's problem is an excess of Ameriwank, not Ameriscrew.
While I do think Ameriwanks are the most common, ninety percent of TLs not focused on the US either wank it, screw it, or leave it alone. Seeing an America without Manifest Destiny or one that doesn't fight the Mexican-American War and just buys California instead would be refreshing. Just a US that's still roughly where it is IOTL, but is different nevertheless.
 
While I do think Ameriwanks are the most common, ninety percent of TLs not focused on the US either wank it, screw it, or leave it alone. Seeing an America without Manifest Destiny or one that doesn't fight the Mexican-American War and just buys California instead would be refreshing. Just a US that's still roughly where it is IOTL, but is different nevertheless.

All I'm saying is, even in timelines where the CSA wins the Civil War, an event that literally tears the US in half, somehow the US still ends up being the most powerful nation in the world half the time, often with an attached Canada for basically no reason.

I get it - the board is majority American. It's the underlying assumption that the world can't work without the US dominating it that bothers me, or that somehow life would be better if other western countries were in the US.

To put it another way - I get annoyed when people lump NZ together with Australia "just because", but I don't get annoyed if NZ was colonised by the French or the Dutch or something because usually there's more thought involved.
 
Crossposting from MotF thread:

Motf202.png


It didn't exactly turn out to be how I wanted it, but considering this is my first MotF entry, I thought it'd be better to post it than to scrap it.

MotF #202: Make a map showing the world in the aftermath of an apocalyptic event.
There are no restrictions on when the PoD of your map should be. Fantasy, sci-fi, and future maps are allowed.


So here it is! A small deviation from my usual The Lilith Parallax(Rise of the Night) stuff, a bit of trying out new things, and also a way to finding back into pixel art on at least a basic level.
Style and map are based on a dutch 1618 map.

------------------------

De Erda dausnd Jaar efter dit Olkrik: Dit is en Kard fan dit Seksche Rayk welcht de Erda an de funding tak fan de newe wessiche Marklrayk zaykt. De Kard auk zaykt de Nigra-Zee die bis hoyt manma de trawel twischn de Marklrayk & Reyn ant de Angloten Insln blokt. Sway weytre Monumente fon de alde Zed sent auk up de Kard zsehn: De Piramidn fon Sus ant de grose Hellensark fon Shanabil, desn Fluhk die Minschhayt bis hoyt an de Estsiedln hindet. Sene Todiskraft ubbertrumpt dene fon die alden Ruinen um en sternfakket.
"The Earth a thousand years after the black poison war: This is a map of the Saxon Realm which shows the Earth at the founding date of the new western Empire (Marklrayk). It also displays the Nigra-Sea (Black Sea) which to this day sometimes blocks/hinders travel between the Empire and the English islands. Two more monuments are shown on this map: the Pyramids of Sus/ and the great hellgate ("world's sarcophagus") of Shanabil, whose curse neverendingly hinders/stops human settling towards the east. Its killing aura surpasses the one of the old [civilization's] ruins by a starfold (manifold)."
------------------------

The original map is probably quite old. It shows the world with its three known continents at the founding date of the first ever Marklrayk, Empire, since the Great Civilizational Collapse following a devastating war called the Black Poison War. Allegedly, it was a war on resources, specifically a black kind of resource that had made the old world addicted to it, so when it ran out and no one found any more, the world and its leaders became greedy, for the last remaining barrels, urns and jugs of the addictive poison that spent warmth and promised to solve all problems and inconveniences. According to the rumors found on the Anglont Islands, the honey-like black fluids covering the Black Sea, giving it its name and hindering trade routes crossing open sea, are the same black poison that once brought the world its doom. Why the map is old, you ask? Since the proclamation of Markl, Emperor, Manel I of Franklant by the ever expanding kingdom of Franklant, the Western Empire has expanded into the northwestern parts of the Alman Steppe, has defeated the Kafat of Tunes, and new countries have spawned amongst the wide stream of Neper (The one in the east with the big lake), the southern parts of the Vene-Sea and Griknlant regions, and on the Skandern island. Despite this, the map is surprisingly accurate for its time, in which civilization had only recently re-established regular trading and bilateral institutions, thus it often has been reproduced and reused over the last few decades.
A few interesting features are unique to this map (and age): The map first uses small illustrations of trees, steppes, grasslands as well as illustrations of cursed ruins and two old world's monuments, as well as a ship attempting to cross the blackwater of the Black Sea. Especially the illustration of the world's sarcophagus was a novelty since the appearance of it was only known to those who visited it, knowing that their life would end soon due to its lingering curse. It's likely the cartographer asked one or some of these people to describe the monument or a local painter who possibly studied the building from afar.

Another interesting feature is the inclusion of the Nujak island, a mythical place that is said to have stood in close relation to the known world before the Black Poison War. Interest around the island which is said to be reachable from the western ends of the Anglont islands re-emerged when a shipwrecked returned with a claim to have met a ship from Nujak, only for it to be destroyed during a storm that also hit his ship.
On the other hand, the usage of the word "a thousand years"

Currently, efforts to revive a world league for international cooperation is being set up in order to ensure events resembling anything that could repeat the Great Civilizational Collapse will never happen again, and in order to make trade, reconstruction & settlement and the construction of ironways [railways] between countries easier and better to operate.
------------------------

Can also be found on my deviantART page: http://fav.me/ddetdvw
 
While I do think Ameriwanks are the most common, ninety percent of TLs not focused on the US either wank it, screw it, or leave it alone. Seeing an America without Manifest Destiny or one that doesn't fight the Mexican-American War and just buys California instead would be refreshing. Just a US that's still roughly where it is IOTL, but is different nevertheless.

This is where I tend to be on the position.

I'm pretty sure it's possible to get an America surprisingly close to OTL borders just through peaceful means alone:

1776-1819: OTL.
1819: USA gets all it wants with a Rio Grande border in the Adams-Onis Treaty.
1835: An American offer to purchase all Mexican land above the 37th parallel that was subtly thwarted by the British goes through. You can have the Rio Grande border here too if desired. https://books.google.com/books?id=JUBnAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=august+6th,+1835+37th+parallel&source=bl&ots=lby_vgk_lA&sig=eE87qd7EcLF5wSgHcIDrEDp_yhE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwilnYWtvo_XAhUK5SYKHY9HDyQQ6AEILTAB#v=onepage&q=august 6th, 1835 37th parallel&f=false and https://books.google.com/books?id=O...page&q=august 6th, 1835 37th parallel&f=false
1846: Oregon Treaty per OTL.
1840s-1853: New Mexico and California revolt as they had inclinations and speakings of doing through the 1820s-then, eventually peacefully annexed by America in the coming decades. Or a super-purchase equivalent to the Gadsden Purchase in 1853 of those regions from Mexico as part of the butterfly effect.


But I also understand this position, especially random Canada in a post-Civil War USA and random Cuba in the CSA.
 
This is where I tend to be on the position.

I'm pretty sure it's possible to get an America surprisingly close to OTL borders just through peaceful means alone:

1776-1819: OTL.
1819: USA gets all it wants with a Rio Grande border in the Adams-Onis Treaty.
1835: An American offer to purchase all Mexican land above the 37th parallel that was subtly thwarted by the British goes through. You can have the Rio Grande border here too if desired. https://books.google.com/books?id=JUBnAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=august+6th,+1835+37th+parallel&source=bl&ots=lby_vgk_lA&sig=eE87qd7EcLF5wSgHcIDrEDp_yhE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwilnYWtvo_XAhUK5SYKHY9HDyQQ6AEILTAB#v=onepage&q=august 6th, 1835 37th parallel&f=false and https://books.google.com/books?id=OK4sAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA400&lpg=PA400&dq=august+6th,+1835+37th+parallel&source=bl&ots=klfL9wViMb&sig=FXezCXXgnDeW5MOvNtcDaVYjNvk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwilnYWtvo_XAhUK5SYKHY9HDyQQ6AEIMTAD#v=onepage&q=august 6th, 1835 37th parallel&f=false
1846: Oregon Treaty per OTL.
1840s-1853: New Mexico and California revolt as they had inclinations and speakings of doing through the 1820s-then, eventually peacefully annexed by America in the coming decades. Or a super-purchase equivalent to the Gadsden Purchase in 1853 of those regions from Mexico as part of the butterfly effect.

The only Ameriwanks I tend to find tolerable are ones with slight border adjustments or "small gains" - an America that integrates the Philippines is an interesting expansion, or one that annexes Panama. Cuba is beating a dead horse, but it's at least realistic. I remember years ago there was a map wherein the Bahamas wound up in American hands during the revolution, minus Turks and Caicos which remained a British naval base or something - that was also interesting.
 
Maybe its make sense...
With eastern shores and northwest destroyed, could 1870s USA really survive? How was southeast doing, after civil war? And what about west, facing harsher and harsher climate, and without any support from east (and with angry natives still not completely subjugated)

Honestly, one of the things that bugs me about Peshwar Lancers is that compared to nearly any European nation not named Russia, the USA should have done far better.

Losing the Eastern seaboard will suck, but the Midwest would be fine, at least until the temperatures start dropping. From Pittsburgh to Chicago to Minneapolis to St. Louis and Kansas City, it's all still there, as is the entire Pacific Coast. In other words, WAY easier for the USA to recover, and beat the ice packs to head South.

The USA surviving and annexing everything down to Panama as the survivors start heading South to beat the freeze strikes me as WAY more likely than the Angrazei Raj or France Our-Re-Mar or Japan-China or Chernobog Russia ever was. I'm not the only one who thinks that given the number of works on this website about a USA weathering out the fall.

Only reason why the USA died off in Peshawar Lancers is the same reason they died off in the Change: SM Sterling but his thumb, nay, his entire arm on the scales.
 
The only Ameriwanks I tend to find tolerable are ones with slight border adjustments or "small gains" - an America that integrates the Philippines is an interesting expansion, or one that annexes Panama. Cuba is beating a dead horse, but it's at least realistic. I remember years ago there was a map wherein the Bahamas wound up in American hands during the revolution, minus Turks and Caicos which remained a British naval base or something - that was also interesting.

I'll gladly give/concede to you on that, not many people understand just how geographically huge the USA is on the world stage and the historic timeline in general compared with so many other nations. This is a nation that really ought be paradise for internal historic twists than map fodder thanks to all its integral territory being more or less safe from outside influence... but not many ever bother with that.
 
Crossposting from MotF thread:

Motf202.png


It didn't exactly turn out to be how I wanted it, but considering this is my first MotF entry, I thought it'd be better to post it than to scrap it.

MotF #202: Make a map showing the world in the aftermath of an apocalyptic event.
There are no restrictions on when the PoD of your map should be. Fantasy, sci-fi, and future maps are allowed.


So here it is! A small deviation from my usual The Lilith Parallax(Rise of the Night) stuff, a bit of trying out new things, and also a way to finding back into pixel art on at least a basic level.
Style and map are based on a dutch 1618 map.

------------------------

De Erda dausnd Jaar efter dit Olkrik: Dit is en Kard fan dit Seksche Rayk welcht de Erda an de funding tak fan de newe wessiche Marklrayk zaykt. De Kard auk zaykt de Nigra-Zee die bis hoyt manma de trawel twischn de Marklrayk & Reyn ant de Angloten Insln blokt. Sway weytre Monumente fon de alde Zed sent auk up de Kard zsehn: De Piramidn fon Sus ant de grose Hellensark fon Shanabil, desn Fluhk die Minschhayt bis hoyt an de Estsiedln hindet. Sene Todiskraft ubbertrumpt dene fon die alden Ruinen um en sternfakket.
"The Earth a thousand years after the black poison war: This is a map of the Saxon Realm which shows the Earth at the founding date of the new western Empire (Marklrayk). It also displays the Nigra-Sea (Black Sea) which to this day sometimes blocks/hinders travel between the Empire and the English islands. Two more monuments are shown on this map: the Pyramids of Sus/ and the great hellgate ("world's sarcophagus") of Shanabil, whose curse neverendingly hinders/stops human settling towards the east. Its killing aura surpasses the one of the old [civilization's] ruins by a starfold (manifold)."
------------------------

The original map is probably quite old. It shows the world with its three known continents at the founding date of the first ever Marklrayk, Empire, since the Great Civilizational Collapse following a devastating war called the Black Poison War. Allegedly, it was a war on resources, specifically a black kind of resource that had made the old world addicted to it, so when it ran out and no one found any more, the world and its leaders became greedy, for the last remaining barrels, urns and jugs of the addictive poison that spent warmth and promised to solve all problems and inconveniences. According to the rumors found on the Anglont Islands, the honey-like black fluids covering the Black Sea, giving it its name and hindering trade routes crossing open sea, are the same black poison that once brought the world its doom. Why the map is old, you ask? Since the proclamation of Markl, Emperor, Manel I of Franklant by the ever expanding kingdom of Franklant, the Western Empire has expanded into the northwestern parts of the Alman Steppe, has defeated the Kafat of Tunes, and new countries have spawned amongst the wide stream of Neper (The one in the east with the big lake), the southern parts of the Vene-Sea and Griknlant regions, and on the Skandern island. Despite this, the map is surprisingly accurate for its time, in which civilization had only recently re-established regular trading and bilateral institutions, thus it often has been reproduced and reused over the last few decades.
A few interesting features are unique to this map (and age): The map first uses small illustrations of trees, steppes, grasslands as well as illustrations of cursed ruins and two old world's monuments, as well as a ship attempting to cross the blackwater of the Black Sea. Especially the illustration of the world's sarcophagus was a novelty since the appearance of it was only known to those who visited it, knowing that their life would end soon due to its lingering curse. It's likely the cartographer asked one or some of these people to describe the monument or a local painter who possibly studied the building from afar.

Another interesting feature is the inclusion of the Nujak island, a mythical place that is said to have stood in close relation to the known world before the Black Poison War. Interest around the island which is said to be reachable from the western ends of the Anglont islands re-emerged when a shipwrecked returned with a claim to have met a ship from Nujak, only for it to be destroyed during a storm that also hit his ship.
On the other hand, the usage of the word "a thousand years"

Currently, efforts to revive a world league for international cooperation is being set up in order to ensure events resembling anything that could repeat the Great Civilizational Collapse will never happen again, and in order to make trade, reconstruction & settlement and the construction of ironways [railways] between countries easier and better to operate.
------------------------

Can also be found on my deviantART page: http://fav.me/ddetdvw

I'm a Lesbo now? Never thought it would happen.
 
Losing the Eastern seaboard will suck, but the Midwest would be fine, at least until the temperatures start dropping. From Pittsburgh to Chicago to Minneapolis to St. Louis and Kansas City, it's all still there, as is the entire Pacific Coast. In other words, WAY easier for the USA to recover, and beat the ice packs to head South.
Wait, was there a flood in Peshwar Lancers, too?
 
Wait, was there a flood in Peshwar Lancers, too?

Meteor strike, mega-tsunami from the meteor, and then an ice age triggered by the "nuclear" winter.

On all three counts, the US takes on the nose - bloody but still standing - while Europe takes it on the chin - to the mat, for good if not careful.

As bad as the first two are, the long-term threat to the US is the ice pack, but it's slow, and thankfully, the USA had plenty of railroads South. Some tension between Southerners and fleeing Yankees might simmer, but there's plenty of land out West, and better yet, Central America ripe for the taking.
 
Meteor strike, mega-tsunami from the meteor, and then an ice age triggered by the "nuclear" winter.

On all three counts, the US takes on the nose - bloody but still standing - while Europe takes it on the chin - to the mat, for good if not careful.

As bad as the first two are, the long-term threat to the US is the ice pack, but it's slow, and thankfully, the USA had plenty of railroads South. Some tension between Southerners and fleeing Yankees might simmer, but there's plenty of land out West, and better yet, Central America ripe for the taking.

<insert obligatory comment about Mexico and its relative distances from God and the US>
 
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