I mean, it's not just subdivisions, it's the colours and backstory. There's a concrete reason Germany is god. There's a spray of colours that show crown colonies and puppets. I wanna know why shit is happening, and you are pretty good at explaining things well- hell, you made a Disney TL successful. A map needs a writeup, and the more boring the map, the higher effort the writeup must be.
Map Thread XIX
- Thread starter water123
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Both interesting ideas, but I think I'm going to start working on Mexico, seeing as that's what most people suggested. (I can already picture Mexican colonies in Africa, Australasia, Antarctica...)
View attachment 478378
Long, long time lurker. First time posting a map
Deus Ex got me inspired...
This is the place where the unknown is living and real
The Future Is Now™
Thats a real nice work. The subdivisions look great. Reminds me of myself with a lurker finally posting a map. Very much more impressive then my own first map posted here.
Map of Chari-Ubangi (ATL Central African Republic):
OTL problems this configuration is meant to solve:
1. Sara minority acting as the fifth column for their Chadian brethren after 1965, by leaving almost no Sara in Chad;
2. Current troubles with the Muslim minority, by making it statistically even smaller (OTL: about 10%, ATL: about 3%).
OTL problems this configuration is meant to solve:
1. Sara minority acting as the fifth column for their Chadian brethren after 1965, by leaving almost no Sara in Chad;
2. Current troubles with the Muslim minority, by making it statistically even smaller (OTL: about 10%, ATL: about 3%).
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Given some of the borders, it actually looks like it could have been a little fun with some work. It has Bangsamoro in there (the Muslim autonomous area southern Philippines, which got the new name just this year), and shows Macao, Hong Kong, and Taiwan as equal members. Adding Singapore, and it seems like the Chinese are gerrymandering things mildly in their favor, if they got a Senate. Or maybe not. The map is almost nostalgic, really. When is the last time any of us saw an Afghanopakistan? Or Serbian losing Vojvodina but keeping Kosovo, annexing Montenegro and- Huh. Odd they don't have the Serb Republic. As well as the British annexing Ireland and the EU having the Vatican, let alone Norway, Iceland, and the other areas the French vetoed membership for. At least an American Haiti lets us know we can laugh again. Really, so long as maps like these are not posted with only minor updates, and they are not taken too seriously, they can be fun. If not? Well, there is a thread for the less pleasant maps. Though come to think of it, most of these probably should not count as empires. Thou as Space Filling Empire is never a compliment, perhaps this is parodyesque.
now THIS is fantastic! Just the sort of thing you should do with China for empires. Is the Kachin area in northern Myanmar a separate state here or is the green line an error from Taiwan's claim on the basemaps? And the Mormons kick out the Najavo from their reservations? I will be assume it is some sort of ultra-Mormon state or something's in Utah here due to taking then Mormon parts of Idaho. Actually probably better they take that area, as OTL 95 percent of Utah is under the administration of departments of the federal government. Did Nigeria expand here as a unified state with everyone being happy, or did things go Islamist (versus Islamic) and go for making themselves successors of Sokoto?View attachment 478378
Long, long time lurker. First time posting a map
Deus Ex got me inspired...
This is the place where the unknown is living and real
The Future Is Now™
I do not believe Hungary would be expanding. Maaaaybe in Serbia, but only with it being tied to the Serbs getting the Serb lands elsewhere. Ruthenia is out of the question though, as since WWI they saw themselves more like Russians than Ukrainians, and I don't see it being good for either propaganda or their strategic position within their Federation to give up that land. Greenland also needs to be with the Nordics. They get almost all their money from Danish subsidies. I am surprised more of Walloons isn't in the rump Flemish-Dutch area. I feel loads of them would move down there as the seas rose. What is the story with Bremen here?
I'd just like to say that this is absolutely amazing.Long, long time lurker. First time posting a map
Deus Ex got me inspired...
This is the place where the unknown is living and real
The Future Is Now™
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Nice start on your mapping career, @Walter.I
Thank you!
Thanks! Yes, the Kachin area is independent following Burma's division. It and Cambodia currently vie for position as the most pro-Chinese state in SEA.
The current Utah government turned to Mexico during the US collapse. Following a much more Hispanic taking to Mormonism, many sites/temples in Mesoamerica are viewed as an almost second Holy land which both governments support. Mexico for one was quite happy with this provided assistance to Utah during its expansion into Nevada-Idaho-Wyoming.
The military is running Nigeria and it is currently in an expansionist phase. Some places quite willing (Ambazonia), others through fraud (Benin), others for "security" reasons (Southern Niger, Northern Cameroon). Currently looking west towards Ghana and beyond.
The Hungarian move into Northern Vojvodina was during anti-minority rioting there that happened during the latest Balkan rounds of war. European tactic approval of Russian takeover of Ukraine was met with Hungary taking it's chances and snatching Ruthenia before Russian troops arrived. European anger at Hungary was met with equal anger from Budapest, who orchestrated a cross border takeover of southern Slovakia. Hungary has been an isolationist nation since with occasional noise about Szeklerland. Europe as a general rule stays away from the Balkans seeing it as too revanchist for it's own good.
Greenland is being juggled between Canadian and Nordic interests. Bremen is still a free city, now coastal not riverine experiencing flooding and climate change refugees but managing to deal with it.
Deleted member 67076
Small map I made based on a WI: Zachary Taylor lives.
In international relations theory there is a concept called "Balancing". Balancing refers to states ganging up to knock down a rising power in fear that said rising power will displace the status quo and become the new hegemon. If you've ever heard of the phrase "Balance of Power", you'll understand balancing. In the Americas, this historically hasn't been an issue- American hegemony was slowly accepted by the powers that be, despite close calls. But the genuine fear of the midcentury of the American Giant was felt by everyone, not just Latin America. And at the turn of the midcentury, tensions were high.
Now historically, it was found that President Taylor's Secretary of State John M. Clayton was found supporting Filibusters in Central America and Haiti (yes that plan was actually made). This caused a rage in France and Britain due to fear of US expansion from the Mexican American war, and tensions remained high throughout the 1850s, with at one point Lord Palmerston considering to send in the gunships. But then Taylor died, Clayton resigned the next day after, the plan didn't go through and treaties were signed with Britain tacitly allowing the Americans to invest more in Central America, then precieved as part of the British sphere of influence.
Suppose the plan isn't found, Taylor lives longer, and Clayton gives support to filibuster operations in Central America and Haiti in 1850. Britain and France are outraged, and war is declared. Balancing begins. The Great Powers- Britain and France, declare war in defense of the empire of Haiti, and the United States is swiftly brought to heel. The war is an easy sell. An insatiable power seeking to expand the ills of slavery. Mexico is brought in for support with promises of debt renegotiation and reconquest.
The actual war is swift and brutal. Despite a sizable population and being the third nation on Earth to start industrialization, the experience and numbers gap is too much. Minie rifles and steam battleships overcame muskets and frigates. Tens of thousands of shipped professional troops destroyed the infant officer corps of the Americans. Inefficiencies stemming from the multiple rail gauges and the policy of "Free Banking" contributed to equipment shortages, funding gaps, and troop delays. And on the fringes, the then marginal groups negotiating for any semblance of autonomy were more than happy to throw in their lot to destabilize the states. Freedmen in particular were eager to seize their freedom when the Europeans granted it. The Seminole were happy to revise their treaties. The Mormons in Deseret hoped they could negotitate legitimacy. And the Comanche, the Comanche profited off war and instability.
Currently is 1852. The Americans have agreed to an armistace. The losses are mounting, the economy is in shambles, the troops haven't been paid. Vast territory has been seized. California has declared independence under Mexican and British mediation all in exchange for some border revisions, open ports, and a nice little constitutional clause preventing any barriers to immigration.
As it is, popular sentiment is that the Whigs were right. War with Mexico was criminal, and the judges have enacted their sentence. Of course, it was worse than a crime- it was a mistake.
In international relations theory there is a concept called "Balancing". Balancing refers to states ganging up to knock down a rising power in fear that said rising power will displace the status quo and become the new hegemon. If you've ever heard of the phrase "Balance of Power", you'll understand balancing. In the Americas, this historically hasn't been an issue- American hegemony was slowly accepted by the powers that be, despite close calls. But the genuine fear of the midcentury of the American Giant was felt by everyone, not just Latin America. And at the turn of the midcentury, tensions were high.
Now historically, it was found that President Taylor's Secretary of State John M. Clayton was found supporting Filibusters in Central America and Haiti (yes that plan was actually made). This caused a rage in France and Britain due to fear of US expansion from the Mexican American war, and tensions remained high throughout the 1850s, with at one point Lord Palmerston considering to send in the gunships. But then Taylor died, Clayton resigned the next day after, the plan didn't go through and treaties were signed with Britain tacitly allowing the Americans to invest more in Central America, then precieved as part of the British sphere of influence.
Suppose the plan isn't found, Taylor lives longer, and Clayton gives support to filibuster operations in Central America and Haiti in 1850. Britain and France are outraged, and war is declared. Balancing begins. The Great Powers- Britain and France, declare war in defense of the empire of Haiti, and the United States is swiftly brought to heel. The war is an easy sell. An insatiable power seeking to expand the ills of slavery. Mexico is brought in for support with promises of debt renegotiation and reconquest.
The actual war is swift and brutal. Despite a sizable population and being the third nation on Earth to start industrialization, the experience and numbers gap is too much. Minie rifles and steam battleships overcame muskets and frigates. Tens of thousands of shipped professional troops destroyed the infant officer corps of the Americans. Inefficiencies stemming from the multiple rail gauges and the policy of "Free Banking" contributed to equipment shortages, funding gaps, and troop delays. And on the fringes, the then marginal groups negotiating for any semblance of autonomy were more than happy to throw in their lot to destabilize the states. Freedmen in particular were eager to seize their freedom when the Europeans granted it. The Seminole were happy to revise their treaties. The Mormons in Deseret hoped they could negotitate legitimacy. And the Comanche, the Comanche profited off war and instability.
Currently is 1852. The Americans have agreed to an armistace. The losses are mounting, the economy is in shambles, the troops haven't been paid. Vast territory has been seized. California has declared independence under Mexican and British mediation all in exchange for some border revisions, open ports, and a nice little constitutional clause preventing any barriers to immigration.
As it is, popular sentiment is that the Whigs were right. War with Mexico was criminal, and the judges have enacted their sentence. Of course, it was worse than a crime- it was a mistake.
Skallagrim
Banned
That is a really cool idea, @Soverihn.
The only thing that kind of weirds me out is the Californian border. It makes zero sense. You'd expect the Mexicans, if they're going to accept a quasi-independent California anyway, to claim up to the Sierra Madre mountains, with the general area of the Santa Ynez river valley (so up to Lompoc and, in OTL, Vandenberg AFB) being the northern bound of their claim. In the east, California could then be handily bounded within the confines of the Sierra Nevada. Claiming the southern part of the Central Valley, however (as on the map), is senseless if you don't also obtain San Fransisco.
Everything else looks really great and interesting. The final borders are sure to be interesting.
-- Independent New England as a British client? With the US being discredited and humiliated in a "slavers' war", I could see support for it up there.
-- NYC as a free port? I can certainly see support for that.
-- I'm assuming the French-occupied region isn't meant to stay that way, but a large part of it (the coast, in particular) could become freedman land, thus linking up a whole chain of freedman territories, from the Mexican border to the Atlantic.
-- That probably means the remaining USA exclave between the freedman states and the Seminole will be spun off into an independent country. The Republic of Georgia, maybe. Who knows.
-- The separate freedman state in Virginia/North Carolina could become an independent state, but more likely will be sacrificed during negotiations, with the USA re-absorbing the area. (The fact that Britain will no doubt impose the abolition of slavery on the USA will make that a bit more acceptable.)
-- Deseret can probably push its claim west up to to the Sierra Nevada, with little objection. Mexico probably won't even care much.
-- Comancheria is probably screwed, though. All neighbouring nations will be interested in partitioning the land.
-- Side note: Liberia seems to still be USA-held. I'm confident that Britain would demand that they hand it over.
The only thing that kind of weirds me out is the Californian border. It makes zero sense. You'd expect the Mexicans, if they're going to accept a quasi-independent California anyway, to claim up to the Sierra Madre mountains, with the general area of the Santa Ynez river valley (so up to Lompoc and, in OTL, Vandenberg AFB) being the northern bound of their claim. In the east, California could then be handily bounded within the confines of the Sierra Nevada. Claiming the southern part of the Central Valley, however (as on the map), is senseless if you don't also obtain San Fransisco.
Everything else looks really great and interesting. The final borders are sure to be interesting.
-- Independent New England as a British client? With the US being discredited and humiliated in a "slavers' war", I could see support for it up there.
-- NYC as a free port? I can certainly see support for that.
-- I'm assuming the French-occupied region isn't meant to stay that way, but a large part of it (the coast, in particular) could become freedman land, thus linking up a whole chain of freedman territories, from the Mexican border to the Atlantic.
-- That probably means the remaining USA exclave between the freedman states and the Seminole will be spun off into an independent country. The Republic of Georgia, maybe. Who knows.
-- The separate freedman state in Virginia/North Carolina could become an independent state, but more likely will be sacrificed during negotiations, with the USA re-absorbing the area. (The fact that Britain will no doubt impose the abolition of slavery on the USA will make that a bit more acceptable.)
-- Deseret can probably push its claim west up to to the Sierra Nevada, with little objection. Mexico probably won't even care much.
-- Comancheria is probably screwed, though. All neighbouring nations will be interested in partitioning the land.
-- Side note: Liberia seems to still be USA-held. I'm confident that Britain would demand that they hand it over.
Deleted member 67076
This is a great point and I admit I messed up here in California. I tried to copy settlement patterns more wherein which the mostly settled coast (AFAIK in 1850) and bits of the valley I think would be too hard to swallow at the moment but its not aesthetic borders. I'll edit that if I do a sequel.
I have a mind to have New England north of Boston to be stapled to Canada. I dont think MA proper would be annexed, its too populated and too firmly American to swallow, but keeping Boston within striking range of the navy while taking much of its hinterland is possible.
An independent New York would be super interesting, especially as it is right now its just Manhattan.
The fun thing about the French occupied part is I just thought for 30 seconds, "What would Napoleon III do" and then it'd be rushing in to take Louisiana in a weird appeal to nationalism and imperial revanchism and freedom and something. My initial thought of what to do (not set in stone) would be a wacky French overseas region where the French would dump a ton of Algerians like they did in New Caledonia and allow medium sized firms to invest there sorta like with Algeria. The freedmen of course are now part of Glorious France and will retroactively be Creole (in a nod to how many African Americans claimed Creole identity to avoid discrimination) with all rights and privileges that entails. No, that doesn't include teaching your kids English unfortunately. This probably has huge knock off effects on Senegal either way.
Perfect to become another captive market for London.
I agree. They'd also probably move to South Carolina's lowlands.
Good point! My initial though is Deseret might try to bargain for statehood but this is also a cool idea.
In the long term yeah, unfortunately. But I thought it would be cool to give them a last minute hurrah. I mean they did take until the 1880s historically for the US army to finally put them down.
Whoops I forgot about that.
I thought I'd try redrawing the American states (with the help of this tool), to make it so different that there are no states in common with OTL, all of the borders are different, everywhere that used to be a tripoint of three states meeting is now well within the middle of a state, etc...
Here's the result.
Depicted on map: electoral votes in 2016 Presidential Election (same as OTL)
List of states:
AD - Adamia
AK - Adirondack
AL - Alaska
AP - Appalachia
AR - Arizona
BO - Boston
CA - Carolina
CC - Cascadia
CH - Cherokia
CI - Cincinnati
CL - Colorado
CO - Comancheria
CS - Chesapeake
DW - Delaware
ED - East Dakota
EF - East Florida
ER - Erie
GC - Gulf Coast
HN - Huron
HU - Hudson
HW - Hawaii
JF - Jefferson
KA - Kansas
LE - Little Egypt
LI - Long Island
LN - Lincoln
LO - Louisiana
MO - Montana
MI - Mississippi
MN - Michigan
MS - Massachusetts
NE - Neosho
NV - Navajo
OO - Ohio
PE - Pecos
PG - Puget
PL - Plymouth
PT - Platte
PY - Peticutry
SB - Sabine
SE - Shoshone
SH - Shenandoah
SU - Superior
SX - Siouxland
TI - Tidewater
UM - Upper Mississippi
WA - Washington
WD - West Dakota
WF - West Florida
WY - Wyoming
YS - Yellowstone
Here's what it looks like with OTL state borders overlaid on, for comparison...
Here's the result.
Depicted on map: electoral votes in 2016 Presidential Election (same as OTL)
List of states:
AD - Adamia
AK - Adirondack
AL - Alaska
AP - Appalachia
AR - Arizona
BO - Boston
CA - Carolina
CC - Cascadia
CH - Cherokia
CI - Cincinnati
CL - Colorado
CO - Comancheria
CS - Chesapeake
DW - Delaware
ED - East Dakota
EF - East Florida
ER - Erie
GC - Gulf Coast
HN - Huron
HU - Hudson
HW - Hawaii
JF - Jefferson
KA - Kansas
LE - Little Egypt
LI - Long Island
LN - Lincoln
LO - Louisiana
MO - Montana
MI - Mississippi
MN - Michigan
MS - Massachusetts
NE - Neosho
NV - Navajo
OO - Ohio
PE - Pecos
PG - Puget
PL - Plymouth
PT - Platte
PY - Peticutry
SB - Sabine
SE - Shoshone
SH - Shenandoah
SU - Superior
SX - Siouxland
TI - Tidewater
UM - Upper Mississippi
WA - Washington
WD - West Dakota
WF - West Florida
WY - Wyoming
YS - Yellowstone
Here's what it looks like with OTL state borders overlaid on, for comparison...
- Status