Map Thread XIX

Discussion in 'Alternate History Maps and Graphics' started by water123, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. B_Munro Member

    May 28, 2004
    I dunno: too many similarities to the "Gate of Worlds" map?

    A map for Harry Turtledove's Through Darkest Europe, a role-reversal world where the Islamic world is the first world and the Christian countries are the backwards third world states with religious terrorism issues. Basically it diverges from the 1100s on, with a more science-friendly intellectual tradition and eventually a scientific revolution arising in the Muslim world, while Christian theologians, notably Thomas Aquinas, coming down firmly on the side of investigation of the natural world being a dangerous distraction from concentrating on the next world. Turtledove in his bumbling way apparently imagines the New World as mostly Islamicized native American states and no Christians, but the advantages in length of Atlantic coastline, importance of north European sea-going trade, and abundance of wood and other supplies aren't just going to go away because Europe misses out on the scientific revolution, and it takes a while for a scientific revolution to translate into actual industrial and organizational advantages, so I'm giving Europeans some American turf. (There have been other European colonial efforts, but failed ones.) My "Maghrebi colonization of the new world" is to some extent inspired by that of greater *Morocco in Sregan's Cradle World scenario.

    Europe is overpopulated, struggling to modernize, and plagued with religious unrest as extreme factions in the Church (the Catholic Church is still united. Barely) react violently against rulers too friendly to Muslims or too eager to promote "scientific" thinking ("practical engineering" is OK, but distinguishing them is a matter of angels and pinheads). Divine right monarchy is the predominant mode of government, but in some places strongmen with no real dynastic claims have taken over from weak princes and monarchs. The Grand Duke of Italy is a man of that ilk (if still grooming their own son to take over) and is struggling to make Italy a modern, genuinely united nation. It's not going well, and terrorists are coming out of the woodwork. (Britain, with a long-ruling royal house with some decent propaganda, and a historical dislike of priests, is doing better, thanks in part to North Sea oil - something they have already fought one war with the Danes in determining boundaries). There's less in the way of violent outside interventions, at least: Europe lacks OTL middle East's deep pools of oil, and with it's long tradition of a military class and locally sourced soldiers rather than slave armies, Europeans aren't half bad at the war thing, when they can afford modern hardware, at least.

    Outside Europe, the world is a bit more peaceful than OTL: there haven't been any world wars, with the best known "big war" of the last century being the Sultanate of Delhi trying to conquer the whole subcontinent and all the minor neighboring states, under the rule of a Wazir/Prime minister turned dictator and sidelining the Sultan, a la Mussolini, but murdering millions of Tamils for the sin of being Hindu Dravidians, a la Hitler (Turtledove has to have his parallels: the dictator even started as a chicken farmer, a la Himmler). It's a generally richer world:Christian Europe and the Christian parts of the Americas (The Sunset Lands) are generally poorer or a lot poorer than the OTL areas, but the Muslim parts of what is OTL Latin America are in most cases richer, in some much richer than OTL: the middle east is first-world, Africa and India vary from richer to much richer, China is somewhat if not spectacularly richer, and Indonesia and the Philippines are quite a lot richer. Technology is a bit behind OTL, mostly in the electronics field: the universal explosion of information and hand held data cornucopias have not yet arrived.

    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019 at 9:39 PM
  2. Bleh Bane of poinsettia mites

    Jan 21, 2015
    Guadalajara, Jalisco
    Thanks for the comments! The answer is that I thought the Roman Empire was too expansive and the uptimer states too small to prevent a particularly innovative Napoleon-esque figure from rising. I decided to make this at the fringes of the empire somewhere and Britannia seemed sufficiently separated from the empire and with enough room to expand for things to develop as such. When the governor of Britannia proved uncooperative with uptimers when contact was finally made, a timely uprising-cum-regime-change by Catonius Aemilius Lucanus Britannicus was initially seen as a welcome development by the uptimer states. Catonius, however, made his uprising not because he sought better relations with the uptimer states, but because he felt the changing of the winds and saw a greater opportunity for power by slowly adopting and applying the technology and techniques of the uptimers.

    The British forces in Cyprus were in no place to rule the natives but the uprising of Catonius does answer the other three questions. Catonius had connections to Celts that resented Roman rule from the Celtic roots of his mother and had maneuvered his way into a position of power by virtue of the position of his father, making him well-poised to take advantage of the chaos when Britannia was cut off from Rome. Relations between Catonius' Britain and the CM were initially cordial, a centralizing downtimer polity being a welcome development for the CM at the time. The dealings in Armorica, however, have recently revealed to the CM just how Britannia operates. CM maps of the region from 5 years ago would have drawn Armorica as a divided region but one where the various tribal nations were firmly under the influence of Francia. What was recently realized is that Catonius was something of a diplomatic genius and developed a system of foreign influence that sees continuation under Catonius II, where significant Britannian families secure alliances by marriage with tribes/nations of interest. Those connections are then leveraged to prompt the CM into providing information regarding some aspect of techonological development. The CM has been very careful to keep uptimer knowledge under lock-and-key following a series of tragedies regarding downtimer massacres/uptimer warlords/what have you and aid has been distributed on a need-to-know basis. Polities in which Britannia has influence have, for the past ~20 years, been selectively presenting significant problems to try and prompt the CM into providing aid that Britannia can then reverse engineer and apply to their growing state apparatus. A CM investigation into the Armorican problem has recently uncovered some of these networks. This is about to drive the CM-Britannia relationship from one of strange bedfellows to one of competing foreign powers.

    Venice in particular, yes, but the rest of the islands in Veneto were significant as well. Roman forces reacted with surprise but the threat to security was clear. The strange architecture and machinery in the cities were objects of fascination and securing the area became the highest priority. Second priority became sussing out who could explain what made these cities and towns work, and how they got this way. People who seemed valuable to this end were left happily to their devices and treated quite nicely by the occupying forces. In many ways, this was the foundation of Latin-Italian diplomacy. Those who were not, however, were sent to the garrisons to be processed and many found themselves enslaved. Their explanations often didn't translate very well and many still didn't really understand what was happening. The emergency Italian government found this naturally unacceptable and the government in Rome failed to understand that these people and the people from Sardinia were one and the same. War could perhaps have been avoided but diplomacy was insufficiently fast to compensate for the emotional impact of pictures of Italians in chains coming out of the Veneto region, and cooler heads failed to prevail.

    That is the Republic of Roma. Italians and Romans alike bristle at the mention of colonialism (for different reasons) but the reality is that when Palermo says "jump", Roma has been in the air since yesterday. The Senate persists, but there is no more Emperor at this point. Conflict between Italia and Roma has been substantial, despite the similarities between the two, and though this TL is in general optimistic, this remains one of its great failings.

    Italia misjudged the difference in ability between the two states very early on, and the end of the Second Roman-Mediterranean War saw the Roman Empire begin to break apart at the seams. This war was waged roughly 25 years after the ISOT and though its objectives were obtained (Papacy established in Rome, Christian holy sites protected, Christians ("and Muslims!" cried the Tunisian delegation) provided with basic human rights/protections, free travel for uptimer citizens, uptimer naval jurisdiction over the Mediterranean and joint control over certain advantageous ports) the impacts of Westphalian states waging conventional war against a non-Westphalian ancient empire began to become clear. The Third Roman-Mediterranean War was more a period of anarchy than anything, the aftermath of which saw the creation of the Mediterranean Mutual Development Zones, colored dark on the map. Italia weighed integrating Roma proper into its structure but at this point Rome and its surrounding regions had grown substantially, and Rome had already been a larger city than any uptimer city. This, combined with post-war guilt drove Italia to recognize the reconstructed Republic of Roma as a new state and member of the Mediterranean Community, whose responsibility for integration would fall to Italia. The possibility for Roman-Italian unity remains on the table, though no one expects it to happen anytime soon.

    The lines inside Sicily indicate the Sicilian government. Similar lines exist inside Sardinia too (I maybe should have used a different color). Internal politics and legal systems are largely independent of the other major island, so "Italia" as a unified concept rests on Sardinia and Sicily continuing to get along. The metaphor presented in the write-up is designed to present how things currently stand between them (a happy marriage) though that's not to say this will always be the case. Should the situation change, the fallout will be tremendous. Think of it as a well-guarded and maintained timebomb.

    The Peloponnese came back in the originally proposed scenario so I decided to include that in this scenario. This has helped Hellas to stay on par with Italia. Despite this, the provisional capital has been moved to Heraklion (for safety and closeness to the important countries) and the current Hellenic plan is to eventually move the capital to Byzantion (for prestige and unity).

    The first thing Parthia saw was the weakening of Rome. The second thing they saw (Second Roman-Mediterranean War) was their opportunity to advance into Roman territory with impunity. At this point, they finally made contact with the states that they had only heard rumors about beforehand. Early attempts were made at cooperation with the Parthians and for a while, it seemed as though some status quo would be achieved with the Parthian border somewhere in central Anatolia. Two events changed this. First, boats coming out of Syrian ports at Parthian direction revealed the economic and political complications presented by having a new, fully downtimer power in control of part of the Mediterranean. Second, the Burning of Jerusalem pissed off uptimer Christians and Muslims alike to a degree that Parthia could never have predicted. This was perhaps the single most unifying event between the uptimer powers since the beginning of the ISOT. The developing uptimer militaries were authorized to use all means at their disposal to "close the circle" and enact what became known as the Closed Gate policy. The Kingdom of Yehuda, bowing first to the Romans and then the Parthians has judged the uptimers the lesser of three evils, though they're not really sure why. This is not to say the position is stable; the Closed Gate policy has inspired a variety of uptimer neo-Nazi terrorist attacks in Yehuda (robbing the Parthian "Aryans" of their rightful victory against the degenerate Jewish kingdom) but this has been matched with investment from uptimer countries, throwing a silver lining around a rather strange and undesirable situation. CM-Parthia relations are rather frosty, though current CM government is in a remorseful phase and is currently trying to make things somewhat right. Parthia recognizes that the CM isn't trying to invade further and is mostly just trying to get a handle on how uptimer tech works.

    The lighter colors of various CM influenced regions indicate these polities and suggest their relationship with the CM. Dacia, for instance, likes Italia a whole lot and has benefited from the close relationship cultivated with the uptimer state. Moesia on the other hand, does not like Dacia very much, and has decided they like Hellas as a result. Italia and Hellas are so far fine with this and are generally on each other's side when negotiating conflicts between the two. Following the chaos of Roman collapse, the governors of Lusitania and Hispania Tarraconensis have been intrigued by the concept of Espanya and have decided they liked the rather relaxed model of federation advanced by the Espanyan government in Palma de Mallorca. It's different for each polity as the conditions facing each are rather variable but the common condition is recognition of the CM and cooperation with the development plans.

    It gets a bit more complicated with the downtimer CM members. Aigyptos, though very cooperative with Hellas, has not hesitated to introduce uptimer technology down the Nile to accelerate their domination of the frankincense and myrrh trades. Nabatiyya had charted a course through desert to create a trade route with Parthia (uptimer CM members are not aware of this yet). These actions threaten to break the CM policy of cautious isolation and strategies are being developed to deal with this and create a sustainable policy with the outside world. Currently, somber conferences are being held in Puerto Norte and Puerto Sur (very close to Gibraltar and Tingis respectively) regarding what should be done about America, particularly in the case that Britannia turns its attention west.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019 at 1:53 AM
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  3. Bleh Bane of poinsettia mites

    Jan 21, 2015
    Guadalajara, Jalisco
    Thanks very much!

    I was going for less chauvinistic and more, 'realistic regarding the sheer difference in power'. I imagined that the uptimer states would be reluctant to engage in rampant colonialism, given not only their past but also the historical significance of the areas in which they're interfering. That having been said, I imagine that that would encourage a sort of conquest on its own, though always on a humanitarian mission, at least in name. That's why Paris is a part of Francia proper already, why Espanya and Italia are interested in areas where they had historical power, but the relatively rich Africa, Egypt, and northern Arabia are allowed more free reign and free association. The local differences and independent identities are still there. I tried to show that to an extent in the write-up, such as with the Corsican-French divide in Francian territories and I tried to magnify those local differences or minimize them as made sense regarding how recently the territories had been integrated into the Roman Empire and how thoroughly romanized society had been by that point.

    The fact of the matter is, native populations can't put up a fight against the CM if the CM decides their territories are interesting. Rome has been crippled but the power wielded within the region has been expanded dramatically. Tunisia for example, one of the weakest members of the CM, expressed an interest in establishing a cooperative relationship with Africa province. Elites that spoke Punic, a language already quite similar to Arabic, expressed a similar desire for political favor and primarily Maltese translators found that all quite easy to relate between the respective sides. There was no political room for anyone else to disagree; even if some other group, say African Romans among the ruling class, saw fit to organize a rebellion, the Punic group in Africa would have complained to Tunisia, Tunisia would have appealed to the rest of the CM for help, and the rest of the CM would have put down something nearly indistinguishable from a barbarian rebellion. All for their own good, of course. Just wait until those African Romans see electric streetlamps, or radio towers, or even mass-produced porcelain products. And so on, and so forth. This isn't to say that the CM is entirely an imperial force, simply that they're waving around a broadsword where some situations require a scalpel.

    I don't think I mentioned Germans, but I have put some thought forward regarding proto-Germans and proto-Slavs. Their migration patterns have changed and the CM is developing strategies for any future Great Migration. There's a good chance the tribal Development Zone to the east of Francia is mostly comprised of what would have been the Franks; the Francians, already up to their teeth trying to create a laïcité-esque identity between the Gauls, Romans, and uptimers in their territory refuse to call the territory anything other than Lombardia.
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  4. Sailor Haumea Liberal Hawk

    Feb 10, 2018
    The PoD is in 1916, this is a very different Reagan. He's a hawkish liberal Democrat whose Vice President was Jimmy Carter.
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  5. Reagent Cartography's Reactionary

    May 26, 2013
    Lourenço Marques, República de Sofala
    Cross-posting from MotF 201:
  6. TheScottishMongol Snake Demon

    Apr 11, 2013
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Thanks for doing this. I got the feeling I wasn't going to enjoy the book enough to warrant digging through it for the actual AH references.

    Related, but every time someone makes a TL where Muslims colonize the New World and they don't include an Al-Abamas reference is a missed opportunity.
  7. TheKutKu Well-Known Member

    Jan 3, 2016
    Autonomous Region of Cabinda
    Also cross posting from MOTF 201


  8. Red Arturoist Napoleon II. - Marxist-Arturoist-Trałkaist Donor

    Jul 5, 2011
    European Nation of Unity (Bezirk 59)
    That really is a novel way of approaching a CSA Victory: "An Army with a Nation" in the Americas!
  9. VigilantSycamore Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2015
    The remainder of the USSR after the Third World War:


    The constituent republics of the USSR are the Volgarossiyan SSR, the East Ukrainian SSR, the Crimean SSR, the Khazarian SSR, the Kalmyk SSR, the Circassian SSR, the Abkhazian SSR, the Ossetian SSR, the Ingush SSR, the Chechen SSR, the Dagestan SSR, the Georgian SSR, the Armenian SSR, and the Azeri SSR.

    North of the USSR is a radioactive wasteland - the major cities, such as Moscow and Stalingrad, have been wiped off the face of the earth, and winds have swept the radioactive matter over a much larger area. Aside from separatist states in the Urals, and the military state of Kazakhrossiya, the closest thing to civilization in the area are armed militias extracting tribute from anyone unlucky enough to be in their territory. The Balkans and the Carpathians have also been spared the nuclear onslaught, but order has still collapsed and the official borders no longer matter. In the Middle East, Turkey's armies are slowly bringing the Arabian Peninsula under control, while Iran has collapsed after the nuclear bombing of Tehran. To the east, the Republic of Turkestan is dominating Central Asia.
  10. Oxander Stepping Lightly

    Dec 26, 2011
    Boulder, Colorado
    Your Musumba coloring is different from the legend, looks like.
  11. Fred Guo Heir of the great Victozon in Etheria

    Nov 25, 2016

    Why look, another Historiae Mutetur map that no one asked for i'm considering this my last inkscape testing for awhile now, school's about to start

    We have here the British Isles, proudly boasting Muslim Irish, Roman/Gaelic/French/Danish England, Greater Wales, and a whole shitton of Celtics and the Norse on the itty-bitty top. This ought to be good.
  12. OcDeElot Member

    Mar 28, 2019
    Yay, finally some alternate map based on comic book fictional countries! But what about other DC-countries like Markovia or Bialya? Are they exist?
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  13. Aven Well-Known Member

    Feb 11, 2013
    Kingdom of Czechia

    (For a larger version of the image, please visit the original at deviantArt here:

    A project which I've had going on and off for more than a year and couldn't seem to finish is finally at an end (and you can thank zalezsky who hounded me for ages).

    This is a remake of my old old Zapadoslavia map ( which I hinted at here last December.

    Once again, there is no detailed or thought-through timeline to go with this map, it was rather me exploring a concept and seeing if I could make the map better. Thus I'm copy-pasting the description of the old map here with some minor changes:

    The alt. history that leads up to this is vague and full of holes at best. The Germans launch a later, spring offensive on the Soviets and, though the resistance is tougher, reach Moscow before the winter hits. The fighting on the outskirts of Moscow is tough and bloody but the Germans still make headway and take Moscow. They take vital Soviet industry which was too slow in evacuating east. This same push caught much of the same industry in Leningrad and Stalingrad. When the Russians finally manage to push the Germans back, it is only thanks to the ever-increasing pressure in Italy and the subsequent invasion of Normandy occupying more of the German forces. By the time the Russians establish a slowly advancing front, the Allies are racing eastwards through France and the Benelux. The two fronts meet in eastern pre-WWI Poland, crushing the retreating Germans between them. Due to a lack of Soviet soldiers, no violent exodus of Germans takes place. Instead, combined with economic sanctions and expropriations, many Germans begin leaving for Germany themselves though a large population remains. The Soviets, heavily weakened from the bloody battles far in the east and much of their industry west of the Ural in rubble, they're glad to leave Deutschland to the allies as they try to quell all the various nationalist uprisings evoked thanks to previous German support. They are mostly successful except for Lithuania. Poland immediately organises a flow of arms to the ex-commonwealth nation and their rebellion is successful.

    Establishment of the federation
    As the Soviets lick their wounds, the peace talks in in west Europe begin. The talks of federalisation come into play with support from the allies and the countries are united with a temporary seat of government in Warsaw and a temporary name as the Polish-Czechoslovak Federal State. While the individual flags of both nations are used on their respective territories, when abroad both flags are hoisted together to represent them. As one of the victorious nations, the federation gains their own occupation zone in Germany, more or less the part which the Soviets got in OTL (the USSR itself only holds symbolic sectors in Berlin and Vienna). They immediately carve out a separate Sorbian state and annex it and Gdansk into the federation. The city of Stettin, a major port connected to Czechoslovakia by the Oder river, is spun out into an autonomous free city within Germany where Zapadoslavia will hold special economic and military rights for 100 years. Port areas in Hamburg and Lübeck are also "rented" to Zapadoslavia for free for a century much like OTL.

    Due to its secluded and strategic location, the newly-founded UN concedes Silesia as a mandate to the federation. Small territorial changes establish a more secure Czech-German and Czech-Austrian border while Poland annexes southern East Prussia and minor concessions are made to Lithuania. The northern areas of East Prussia, with a major German population, are also separated from Germany as a Trust Territory. In the east, weak Russian positions result in a reduced Polish border, in some places according to where the fronts met, in others negotiated.

    The current situation
    After the initial euphoria passed, the Czechoslovak side began to put pressure on the Poles and Těšínsko is split from the two states as an autonomous region. The next question on the table was the capital. Neither side could accept the other's capital as their own. The Poles saw danger of Czech atheist tendencies influencing the government administration from Prague while the Czechoslovaks were wary of Polish expansionist influence invading Czechoslovakia and of attempts to "Polify" the country. Soon a compromise is found. While the two national capitals retain vast cultural and economic autonomy, diplomacy is conducted from the perfect middle ground and when Těšín-Cieszin becomes the official capital of the federation, the biggest dividing factor indeed becomes their greatest unifying bond. The town experiences a large influx of finances and an enormous building boom to provide the facilities required of the capital of a large country.

    The country undergoes a political and administrative reform. A federation of five states, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Sorbia, Gdansk, and the special Teschen (Těšín-Cieszin) Capital Territory. The internal divisions of the country are more or less retained for now, creating a complex multi-level system of government, especially in Czechoslovakia. The federation has two autonomous regions, Subcarpatian Ruthenia in Czechoslovakia and the Vilnius Region on the border with Lithuania. The country is still significantly multi-ethnic, even within individual member-states, with Germans forming a large minority in several states and a majority in Gdansk. The city becomes one of the major hubs of German emigration from Poland and Czechoslovakia. The federation also seeks to find a compromise regarding the name of the country to something shorter and more inclusive. In the end, the name "Federation of Zapadoslavia" is chosen in the style of Yugoslavia.

    The future
    The federation is a growing power with the industrial sector of Czechoslovakia quickly growing while the Polish plains become the granary of the federation. Gdansk, with an ever increasing German, but also Czech and Polish population, is set to become a major economic and trade hub for central Europe. Two states are expected to join the federation soon. The first being Lithuania, already a candidate, it is under increasing pressure from the Soviet forces looming in the east and international pressure to join to prevent another Baltic annexation by the USSR. On the other hand the Federation promises security . . . and potential unification with the Vilnius Region into one state. Poland hopes to achieve large-scale influence in this new state through the large Polish population in the autonomous region while Czechoslovakia seeks to dilute Polish power in the federation with the admission of a Lithuanian population. Integration has already begun as a customs and currency union between the two states has been established and Lithuania is bringing its foreign and economic policy into line with that of Zapadoslavia. The latest step to show their move to integrate was the change of the formal name of the state to "Associated Republic", de facto in a confederate relationship with Zapadoslavia.

    The second potential state is Silesia. Their eventual joining was expected since the creation of the mandate. Everybody realised this including the German population in Silesia who didn't like the idea of living in a unified west-Slavic state. An exodus happens and increases as the date of the plebiscite and almost certain accession to the federation nears. The population is instead slowly being replaced by Czechs and Poles who see Silesia joining as it returning to Bohemia/Poland and wish to see it secured with a population friendly to their own part of the country. The subsequent territory would be ethnically diverse enough (between Czechs, Poles and Germans) that it would become a separate state rather than integrate into one of the current member states. The possibility of a new start, basically settling Silesia, is also a significant incentive. The Poles are winning in numbers while the Czech half is bringing industry and finances into the region.

    Lastly remains the question of former East Prussia. The strongly reduced territory is split into three occupation zones which are also seeing an exodus of Germans, to be replaced primarily by Poles. In the planned plebiscite on the region's future, it is almost certain that the regions of Nadruvia and Warmia, already majority Polish, will demand direct annexation to Poland. Uncertainty remains around the status of Königsberg which, as the major regional city, retains a German majority, boosted by a lesser influx of Czechs and Czech capital. It is possible that this segment of Prussia may vote to join the federation as a separate city-state akin to Gdansk.

    Meanwhile the situation in Russia is still not settled. And with the eastern nations slowly recovering from the war, they slowly eye the economically and industrially-ruined USSR as almost ripe for a nationalist counter-revolution who's seeds the Germans planted during the war. Romania seeks reunification with Bessarabia while the federation eyes potential influence in the Baltics, Belarus or Ukraine.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019 at 5:09 PM
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  14. Railmotive The guy who should post more

    Jan 29, 2017
    New Aberdeen, New Britain
    Brilliant, couldn’t have done it better myself. Thanks for continuing the Mediterranean island isot timeline in this way, really appreciate it.
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  15. Clandango Disestablishmentarianist

    Jun 15, 2012
    The Back of the Car
    Them keeping the remains of Belgium as is, or expanding it slightly into France, might be better. Means there would be a Flemish state hostile to the French trying to regain land. I also see you have combined the Thuringian and Meklenburger areas together. I don't know if the Princes would be happy with it. I'll check your thread again and see if I can find further details.
    looks like the Celtic Crosses are going to find their curves into another style of art. I expect people might claim in this world that Celtic Knots were just the Irish using the styles of Arabs, Berbers, and the others who I assume will be most likely to reach Ireland. I am unsure about the naming you give for York, though. Looking up the etymologies, I don't see a reason they would specify it as 'The Yorc'. Using The Hague as inspiration? It also reminds me of how the Fens and other areas used to be underwater, though it didn't the sort of thing that shows up on basemaps, and much of Louisnia is underwater but shown on maps as land anyways. Still, part of why the Norse started taking over York was because they could sail to it on the marshes. Said marshes might make some changes to the border here. Seems a lot of places here are claiming to be kingdoms. You see them as mostly being petty kingdoms or do they manage to stick around down the line? And any significance on them calling themselves Kingdoms of lands, rather than of peoples? I forget when it became common to move from one to the other. Suppose there aren't too many examples in the British Isles really. So, which of the Irish are Muslim?
  16. Sailor Haumea Liberal Hawk

    Feb 10, 2018
    9/10, needs independent Strathclyde
  17. VigilantSycamore Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2015
    Yep! For Bialya, I'm thinking of making roughly equivalent to Kurdistan in terms of territory and demographics. I'm not sure where the name would come from, but I'm thinking it would have been independent some time before the Ottoman Empire, then gained independence again after World War 1. I've got ideas for Markovia too - I'm thinking it would be where Lusetia is IOTL, and would have started as a German principality with a Slavic majority before becoming part of the German Empire in 1871, then gaining independence in 1918 or 1919. There are also a few other countries I have ideas for - like making Modora/Pokolistan a Turkic country between Kazakhstan and the Ural republics of the Russian Federation
    Thanks for asking!
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  18. Osk Eu set di la Oskaña

    Nov 25, 2008
    From the UARverse, the 11 provincial seats of the Church of Columbia in Transylvania.

    The Church of Columbia is a dominant denomination of Christianity in the Union being the most practiced denomination, just ahead of the Catholic Church. The Church owes its origins to the 18th Century, but really rose to prominence in the early 19th Century as part of the Great Awakening. The Church is a quasi-nationalist institution and exists almost entirely in the UAR. Throughout the history of the UAR, the Church has been extremely influential in social and political life - none the less, it is rather decentralized in modern times as a result of the Schisms of Policy that occurred in the early 20th Century. The Church was influential both in the rise of Christian socialism in the Union, as well as Christian nationalism.

    The Church oversees provinces in every realm, with each provinces having a High Seat. Beyond the high seats of the provinces, the church structure is decentralized and largely local, with little oversight from the head leadership. Much of the Union aristocracy/nobility are members of the Church, as is the royal family.

    In Transylvania, for example, the Church has 11 provinces, as shown below.

    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019 at 6:00 PM
  19. GustavusAdolphus1 Well-Known Member

    Dec 27, 2017
    As a Kentuckian, I'm shook by "Louisboro."
  20. Osk Eu set di la Oskaña

    Nov 25, 2008
    Ah, yes, a result of rampant Francophobia in Transylvania during the mid-19th century! There's also Knoxboro and Nashboro and a number of other villes-turned-boros :p