Very cool. By the end of the 17th century, does a singular French cultural identity still exist in a meaningful way? What about language? In particular, what do the denizens of the Dual Monarchy speak? Is it sort of like Austria-Hungary in that there are French and there are English and they remain culturally different from each other or is unification between the two more meaningful than that?A Tale of Three FrancesThe POD involves Henry V living a little longer after the Treaty of Troyes, and as a result he's able to push forward more into Southern France to subjugate more of the remaining Valois resistance to his rule in Southern France. Henry V takes much of the old duchy of Aquitaine. Henry V dies as a result of injuries sustained from battle, but as a result of the butterflies, Henry VI is born more sane and healthy. Henry V manages to live long enough to be formally crowned giving more legitimacy to his son Henry VI who proves to be an effective ruler managing to consolidate his rule in France proper. The Valois Claimants manage to get some of the Southern Provencal nobles to rally around himself establishing his foothold in Toulouse. Thus France is split into two Kingdoms each claiming to be the rightful Kings of France. But internationally, the new Lancastrian Kings were recognized as the Legitimate Kings of France holding Paris.
In the Duchy of Burgundy under the shrewd Philippe III "the Good" and Charles I "The Bold" Burgundy uses the resulting power vaccum within France and the HRE proper to expand into the Low Countries and Rhineland realizing the borders of the old Carolingian Kingdom of Lotharingia. Lotharingia emerges as a new Great Power in Europe with control of the Rhineland and the Wealthy Low Countries. This wealth and trade dominance allows for Charles the Bold to consolidate his hold by building a highly effective army and navy. Though the rise of the House of Burgundy led to the historic Plantagenet/Lancastrian-Bourgogne alliance to break down with the two dynasties becoming fierce rivals whose wars defined much of the 16th and 17th Centuries. The Burgundian Kingdom of Lotharingia is the Third claimant to the French title as a result of the Burgundian Kings descending from another branch of the Capetians. And following the death of the main branch of the Valois in Toulouse, a bitter war of succession broke out in Europe between the Lancasters and the Burgundians seeking to gain control over Southern France. Of course the Occitan and Provencal nobility, not wanting to be under either Kings' rule, rallied behind a claimant descended from an illegitimate branch of the Valois Kings who styled himself as being of the House of Toulouse. The new King Francois I de Toulouse managed to maintain the territorial integrity of his realm against both the Burgundians and Lancasters.
What do you guys think?
Probably Burgundian French most likely as French became a widely spoken language during this era. Though Wallonia and Flanders though in ttl might very end being pretty much a Francophone region. The local languages spoken in Frisia (basically modern Netherlands) would likely have a lot more French influence. Though in the Eastern and Southern parts the High German and Arpitan would likely be spoken. Though Arpitan gradually might be replaced by more French.Thanks for the reply!
I was also wondering, what would the court language of Lotharingia be? I was thinking either Flemish of standard Burgundian French.
Not really per-se. There’s a geographical notion of France at its full-extent, but as for modern French nationalism, I’d say no. Though while the French national identity’s origin can be traced back to the Hundred Years War, French Nationalism as we know it, was a product of the 18th Century French Revolution.Very cool. By the end of the 17th century, does a singular French cultural identity still exist in a meaningful way? What about language? In particular, what do the denizens of the Dual Monarchy speak? Is it sort of like Austria-Hungary in that there are French and there are English and they remain culturally different from each other or is unification between the two more meaningful than that?
Here you might find this useful, throw in some Pinyin and you'll get it back with a Hungarian scheme, make sure to remove tones as well
Tourism map of Kangokia, alternate history Hungary which was settled by Chinese instead of Magyars.
On the map we have a few of Kangokia's sights and experiences!
- In Szansi (Budapest), the capital city whose name means "City on a Hill" is the birthplace of Kangokia and home to the impressive Imperial Palace.
- Szonnbor (Sopron) is home to rolling plains and beautiful scenery.
- Szahann is a lovely spa town with a Buddhist temple and old pagoda.
- Vudann (Pecs) is home to spicy hot pot and cuisine which fuses Mediterranean food with Far Eastern styles.
- Piensi (Novi Sad) was famous as the sole producer of silk in its heyday, and now it is famous for the historical-style dresses it produces for tourists.
- Senntonn (Debrecen) produces a vast array of peppers and spices which are used to make dried sausage.
- Tsimu (Eger) and Misigok (Miskolc) are great places to enjoy the view of the Carpathian mountains!
NOTE: I've changed the orthography of the language a little since my last post.
One gripe-Manchuria was like 85-90% Han even during the Manchukuo era, and is now 95-98% Han now, and an autonomy there makes no sense. Maybe substitute them with the Zhuang/Yunnan Mountain peoples on the southern fringe that are far more numerous than the Manchu?So here's a quick little thing I finished up today. The initial POD is that Japan takes longer to surrender at the end of WWII, and so Korea is never divided, and thus China can focus it's attention on reunification with Taiwan around 1950. This also gave me a chance to use some of the less used parts of the THICC color code.
View attachment 555610
I just made it using paint.netVery good map! How did you make it, with which software and resource?
What does this Rhineland language look like?
Kangokia uses a custom language I made which is derived from middle Chinese. For example, final stops like k are preserved.
Which reminds me, we need to come up with titles for the map threads, because this is the fastest moving thread outside of chat.So quick question - Since Map Thread XX will probably start in a couple of weeks, would anyone be interested in seeing a "Most Popular" list for XIX? A quick scan of the first 50 pgs of this thread has shown that there's going to be _a lot_ of maps with 40+ likes, so I figured it might be worthwhile to start compiling the list now - especially in order to have it ready for posting on either the 1st or 2nd pg of the next thread. Thanks!
I certainly can help. Where do you want me to start?So quick question - Since Map Thread XX will probably start in a couple of weeks, would anyone be interested in seeing a "Most Popular" list for XIX? A quick scan of the first 50 pgs of this thread has shown that there's going to be _a lot_ of maps with 40+ likes, so I figured it might be worthwhile to start compiling the list now - especially in order to have it ready for posting on either the 1st or 2nd pg of the next thread. Thanks!
This reminds me of something I thought of a while back. Do we have map resources–in the standard map sizes and projections–for things like the whole world’s watersheds and continental divides? I don’t remember seeing them in the blank map threads (but then those are so huge it’s hard to find anything. If we have those, we could overlay them on an existing map (alongside, say, a physical map) and making pretty alternative borders would be that much easier.First attempt at mapmaking.