Map Thread XIX
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Wouldn't this be more of an example of the White Man's Burden and other previous things rather than the Dutch Ethical Policy? the DEP seems to have been more about "please don't rebel for the love of god" and would not have influenced in this level of language loss. Indeed, to have densely populated Java speak that much German would take a lot of...very bad things.
Gordon has his own territory, as long as he stays in it and doesn't get too close to the borders. (It's that peculiar Gordon smell, mostly).
I guess you could say that he's been... Gordoned off from the outside world
Isaac Beach
Banned
This is incredibly impressive! I think I might end up playing around with this for hours.
That map is bad you should feel bad and answer for your crimes against everyone who have laid eyes on that thing
If that's the word you want to use for cultural genocide, sure.You mean... education?
You mean... education?
Changing people's maternal language takes more than education, unless said government aims for bilingualism, meaning they would speak both Java-Malaysian and German. But making colonized people a cultural elite is less likely than abducting children like Native children were abducted to be raised as Anglo-Saxon children.
You mean... education?
In every instance where a non-European-descended people primarily speak a European language, it's the result of colonization and subjugation. There are so many examples that it's more useful to point out counter-examples: The only countries that *weren't* colonized by European-descended powers for appreciable lengths of time have all maintained their indigenous language: Amharic in Ethiopia, Thai in Thailand, Japanese in Japan, Chinese in China, Nepali in Nepal, Persian in Iran, and so on. This also extends to non-Europeans colonizing and subjugating other non-Europeans. For example, Amharic in Oromia, Japanese in Hokkaido, Chinese in Xinjiang, Persian in Luristan, and so on. It also extends to Europeans subjugating other Europeans, such as French in Languedoc, Spanish in Catalonia, English in Wales and Ireland, and so on.
People don't stop speaking a perfectly good language in favor of another one except as the result of a severe power imbalance.
Thank you!
Communist Zambia has been wiped out and partitioned between the Entebbe pact nations after WWIII but Rhodesia managed to take control of the Lusaka region during the Great Southern War (or as it called within the Entebbe pact, the African conflict of 1997).
The State of Gay mostly was organized in 605 SPE, today being a densely populated state on Kauresia's east coast. The territory that preceded the State was a purchase from the Anzian Empire in 534 SPE for a great sum of the east coast for a great sum of money, Belivue (the continent Kauresia is on) has mostly been subject to being arbitrarily carved by colonial powers in its last couple of centuries, mostly by the Callish, Escrian, Anzian, and Eridonian Empires that mostly wanted trade with the nearby Leranyu which hosted a plethora of resources that countries would want. The State of Gay was named after one of the figures behind the purchase of the territory in 534, Rory Gay, was the Secretary of State at the time of the purchase and one of the main coordinators of Kauresia's foreign policy, who negotiated with Anzian delegation, who weren't too confident in maintaining that stretch of territory as the mainland had been subject to attempted republican revolutions that stagnated economic progress, in which they were desperate for monetary gain even if they had to give up their colonial possessions for it. The purchase had been completed by 534 and Kauresia was left with an east coast to expand trade east, hoping to open up direct and short trade routes with Concordia.
You mean... education?
I mean, if it were describing German (or any other non-native colonial overlord language like e.g. Dutch, Portugese or English for that matter) as a secondary language, You/I could let that education argument pass, but maternal language in those numbers? That's either a case of very high cultural subjugation or a case of this one very haram act that may not be named and involves resettlement.
If you had intended it as a dystopian timeline, then sure, I guess... But it didn't seem like that. What you're implying is quite the hot subject and we already got a bunch of members banned over that
I assumed so.
It's just that we had a bunch of trolls posting wanked/ethnic cleansing maps of their native countries (often Russia, but there are other examples) and claiming them to be "good timelines" or even worse, "my ideal world/timelines" and sometimes even going full political as to why. So that's why some tend to overreact very quickly.
As for me personally, I made a similar mistake in relation to (also German) language areas/percentages roughly two years ago where I also did some shenanigans with second and first languages in culture, education and daily use, where it appeared to many people that I was indicating a genocide or cultural subjugation,
even though I had only intended to show a change to increased use of German as a secondary, auxiliary language.
I basically failed to convey the message I intended and essentially drew a map of ethnic expansionism - The map itself was poorly executed too and I and my project still up to this day get sometimes shamed for it (might also have to do with the fact that I haven't posted much more about the TL yet - I only want to return with it once I have a proper lore basis and appearance I'm satisified with),
which is why I'm trying to prevent other people to experience similar unpleasant situations.
@NiGHTS
I didn't mean to insinuate that you were racist or anything. It's just that usually on tons of other sites having a region start speaking German is usually racist wish fulfilment and I wanted to point that out. Not to mention there is a school of thought on here rn devoted to removing concepts like "Terra incognita" and other aspects of Western dominated colonialism that have seeped into our cartography. For example, for years colonization of the Americas simply was based on the model of "hardworking Europeans show up in a magically empty place and start throwing society together in this new completely empty area" that is unfortunately common in the American School System with the occasional massive Incan empire that is 1,000 miles long and 1 inch deep. Yet recently cartographic trends have changed to be more inclusive of Native American trends. There is at least an assumption that the Native Americans went *somewhere* as opposed to magically disappearing. This is put up to eleven in areas like India or Indonesia where powerful nations ruled over millions of people (in fact, the kingdom of Mysore had better military tech than the English but didn't have the English numbers or navy) and thus sweeping demographic changes imply nasty things happened to get there. Not to mention the "white settler colony" model, which only occured in the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and [arguably] South Africa is often exported to other parts of the world where it would make no sense such as India or densely populated places in Africa. This is usually non-maliced because this is the only kind of colonization taught in a lot of schools and is therefore assumed to be the norm. Yet, by perpetuating this one continues to buy into both the "Invisible Indian" stereotype and also other stereotypes of this nature. Ultimately, I think everyone ends up making a map of ethnic expansion some time early in their mapping careers (pan over to all the giga-Byzantiums, super Americas, etc.) so you aren't like committing some heinous and unheard of thing. Just make sure to remember that the Native residents of an area essentially always have a culture as vibrant and complete as any European one.
Tl;Dr: you're good, no one is accusing you of anything, just make sure to include the original inhabitants of an area in your lorebuilding and discussion in a realistic way. If a large non-European population started speaking German, describe why and how that happened.
I didn't mean to insinuate that you were racist or anything. It's just that usually on tons of other sites having a region start speaking German is usually racist wish fulfilment and I wanted to point that out. Not to mention there is a school of thought on here rn devoted to removing concepts like "Terra incognita" and other aspects of Western dominated colonialism that have seeped into our cartography. For example, for years colonization of the Americas simply was based on the model of "hardworking Europeans show up in a magically empty place and start throwing society together in this new completely empty area" that is unfortunately common in the American School System with the occasional massive Incan empire that is 1,000 miles long and 1 inch deep. Yet recently cartographic trends have changed to be more inclusive of Native American trends. There is at least an assumption that the Native Americans went *somewhere* as opposed to magically disappearing. This is put up to eleven in areas like India or Indonesia where powerful nations ruled over millions of people (in fact, the kingdom of Mysore had better military tech than the English but didn't have the English numbers or navy) and thus sweeping demographic changes imply nasty things happened to get there. Not to mention the "white settler colony" model, which only occured in the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and [arguably] South Africa is often exported to other parts of the world where it would make no sense such as India or densely populated places in Africa. This is usually non-maliced because this is the only kind of colonization taught in a lot of schools and is therefore assumed to be the norm. Yet, by perpetuating this one continues to buy into both the "Invisible Indian" stereotype and also other stereotypes of this nature. Ultimately, I think everyone ends up making a map of ethnic expansion some time early in their mapping careers (pan over to all the giga-Byzantiums, super Americas, etc.) so you aren't like committing some heinous and unheard of thing. Just make sure to remember that the Native residents of an area essentially always have a culture as vibrant and complete as any European one.
Tl;Dr: you're good, no one is accusing you of anything, just make sure to include the original inhabitants of an area in your lorebuilding and discussion in a realistic way. If a large non-European population started speaking German, describe why and how that happened.
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