Map Thread XIV

[MrL567]

So how are things in America? China?

The Americans are proceeding nearly like OTL, albeit with a more isolationist bent due to the nastier state Europe is. They are neutral in a conflict, but would likely support the British side. The Chinese considering it is not a group of warlord states is proceeding in a much better fashion compared to OTL. They are not concerned with affairs in Europe, but mainly want to retake Manchuria and Mengjiang the Japanese. While nominally fascist, due to the Republic being very militant, they have a distaste towards the Seine Pact powers due to there colonies.

 

[CyberPhoenix001]

Kinda just made this quickly as we don't have that many depictions of the Melbourne, Australia area and I was bored. I could add to it if anyone is interested.

Nice! So, is the Melbourne region meant to be its own nation?

I have to say, from what I can tell, it would have a larger area than Cyprus or Puerto Rico.

B_Munro is back! And bm2617 is shuffled off to obscurity again.

In celebration, have a God Knows When It Will Be Done WIP.

Goodbye, bm2617! We hardly knew ye!

On the map, wow! You've somehow made it even more chaotic than I first envisioned it!

 

[Beedok]

End of paged! The cruelty. (Luckily it should barely matter with the new 'first unread' system.)

 

[michaelk156]

I'd be interested. So long as you burn Melton to the ground.
Nah its a good map. Is there a POD because it'd have to be a pretty special one to see Melbourne secede.

Thanks, I might add some extra counties and make it a bigger country if I decide to work on it some more.

Wasn't really thinking about a POD that much. I did have an idea that maybe 'The Republic of Victoria' was like a reverse case of Northern Ireland where instead of having a small part of Ireland staying with Britain and the Queen, you have a small part of Australia declaring a republic and wanting to break out of the Commonwealth while the other parts stay behind. That, and perhaps Melbourne had a much bigger rivalry with Sydney early on that caused a larger rift between the two cities until Melbourne wanted out, with much of Victoria being occupied by Australian forces upon independence declaration and the final border ultimately being drawn at a military frontline, resulting in a smaller Victorian territory centered around Melbourne. The increased Sydney-Melbourne rivalry could have something to do with Sydney being selected as capital city instead of building Canberra and receiving extra attention as a result, and the final straw that brings the war on could be some sort of Anti-British Imperialist Marxist revolution springing up in Melbourne (the Melbourne commune?) that the rest of the country doesn't follow along with and tries to snuff out with military force. Don't know if this is plausible at all but I did plan to have the Victorian Republic as being more left-wing than it is now (think Greens switching place with the Coalition politically), so it kinda fits with my perception of the country. It could also just be an ISOT territory that doesn't want to join with OTL Australia due to differences and thus forms its own country, that'd be an acceptable enough explanation too I guess.

Nice! So, is the Melbourne region meant to be its own nation?

I have to say, from what I can tell, it would have a larger area than Cyprus or Puerto Rico.

Yep. It would be a little over 50,000 km sq in area, so it's not that small. It actually still includes a fair bit of the Victorian countryside so there's plenty of room for farming beyond metropolitan suburbia. It's population would be a little over 5 million so it's actually got slightly more people living there than New Zealand although its much more compact.

 

[moxn]

Fantastic work, moxn. I find the style of the map and the borders of the provinces, dioceses, and prefectures quite aesthetically pleasing. Even if this ASB is a power-hungry imperialist, at least he had the good taste not to draw a horizontal line from Minnesota to the Pacific and make it a national border. My only border-related question is about the division of the Sinai peninsula. Why does the European Prefecture contain all of the Mediterranean coastline except for a small strip of land in Sinai, which belongs to South Asia? It's not necessarily a bad decision, but it has me curious, especially since that coastline doesn't appear to have a major port city. If it was given to South Asia as part of a compromise, I imagine that whoever agreed to the treaty would seek to capitalize on South Asia's token Mediterranean port in order to create the sentiment that the treaty had not been in vain. On the other hand, the city near OTL Poti, Georgia does provide South Asia with a port on the Black Sea, which may or may not change the dynamics of the Europe-South Asia relationship. I hope that doesn't sound too nitpicky. I trust that you have good reasons for drawing the borders as they are, and my reasoning might be completely wrong.

As for the map's style, I have nothing but praise. I always like it when cartographers use variations of a color to designate multiple layers of subdivisions, since it prevents the need for multiple styles of borders. Also, I'm absolutely thrilled that the map shows key rivers and roads as well as borders, without in my opinion ever looking ambiguous or overcrowded. For a long time I've dreamed of creating a map that could show each of those things at the same time, and now that I've seen such a perfect execution of the idea, I might feel inspired to give it a try. Finally, I think the choice of white for cities in stead of the conventional black or red is brilliant. It really makes the map feel alive, and drives home the point that while borders may be invisible from space, cities certainly are not. This is an incredible piece of art that has really brightened my day, so thank you for sharing it with us.

Best wishes,
Miranda

Hi Miranda,

First I have to say I've never heard such high praise for one of my maps before. Thank you so much for this review, it really means a lot.

I tried to keep the provincial borders aesthetically pleasing as possible, but at the same time also basing it on historical borders wherever possible. For the America's in particular I followed native empires and tribes as best I could, went along with natural boundaries wherever I couldn't, and went with what looked best when I couldn't do either.

The biggest reasoning behind the Sinai was because of the OTL borders for the province of Arabia Petraea covering the peninsula, and I didn't want to exclude it from the Arabian diocese. It's a big oversight on my end to not think of putting a major city there , though smaller cities and villages would exist along the Mediterranean coast. Sinai didn't seem to make sense to me to belong to any other province, so it stayed Arabian and by extension part of Asia Australis.

I'm really glad you didn't think it was overcrowded, since that was one of my biggest fears making it. I had to tweak the cities a lot before I felt I was satisfied, and near the end of putting them into place I still had second-thoughts, so I made sure a city-free version would also be available. I'd love to see you make something similar and to experiment with the aesthetics more to find something even better . I have a few blank templates of the map I used on my dA account if you want to use any of them as a resource.

 

[andreavg]

Work, ispired by this: http://generalhelghast.deviantart.com/gallery/33121505/Chinese-Century-series

 

[Mumby]

1968: Liberal President Rostik Nikolaev visits China and Red India. The Word War's balance shifts massively in the months surrounding both visits. Despite this success in foreign affairs the Nikolaev presidency is still rocked by controversies surrounding the 'Great Migration'. As young Russian families grow rich enough to buy a home in the suburbs (usually rowhousing, but single family homes are present too, bungalows and ranch houses not so much) poorer minorities move out of the often corrupt ethnic homelands into the now emptying and cheaper inner cities of the big cities. To counter this outflow of population many of the warmer southern homelands start sending out feelers to Russian retirees and young families looking for cheap housing (and companies looking for regions without strong labour unions, and often also weaker regulations). Some of the smaller homelands quickly become majority Russian by the end of the 1960s. Unfair policing towards minorities also becomes an issue (especially in Moscow), however Russian minorities are somewhat placated when news leaks out of the USSA.

The sudden death of President Irons under somewhat shady circumstances (he was 67, but in good health) and the speed at which certain members of the Party move to secure the succession causes a lot of raised eyebrows for those in the know. Many inner party members who had not been informed of this pseudo-coup attempt to launch a counter coup and a number of back alley purges occur in the upper and middle ranks of the party. It's nothing too odd, similar events have occured in other dictatorships, but what sets it apart is the racial undertone that gets noticed. The plotters who removed Irons weren't that racist, but had excluded a number of blacks in the upper party and the ensuing power struggle effectively removes most of the blacks and hispanics from the upper party. Protests over the issue brake out in Atlanta, Savanna, and a number of southern cities. The army was sent into both the New Africa Republic and the New Mexico Republic, using primarely forces from outside the two protesting republics. Most protesters retreated at the sight of tanks, but after a deaf man was shot when he couldn't hear warning shouts Birmingham explodes into a full rebellion. The international community loudly codemned the use of chemical weapons during the pacification of the city, but the USSA effectively sneared at the world. A number of African nations were put off by the event, however most shrug and see it as just how a state is run (who hasn't burnt down the occasional village afterall? The USSA just has better weapons than AR-52s* and machetes).

Also of note is the 1966-1968 Red Indian** invasion of Pakistan gets actual approval from global society. Pakistan was a disaster no one else wanted to invest in the cost of cleaning up. Delhi was willing to bleed the half a million soldiers it took to end the nightmare. Unfortunately many radicals who shouted so loudly about the glory of dying for their ideals scattered in the wind as Reds secured the Indus. Bangladesh and the Malay peninsuela received the bulk of them, and Bangladesh had enough issues to collapse into civil war as 1968 drew to an end. Others went to Africa, where they found a fertile audience of anti-White locals who saw Egyptians (and other Arabs) as a shade or two too light for their liking (never mind that the Pakistani preachers were usually just as pale or paler).

In good news England was freed of occupation after selling off a few of their scattered holdings. Italy and Hungary have both returned to the global fold more peacefully and totally. A coup attempt in Iran by Communist hardliners failed comically (and would later be turned into a movie by Turkish filmmakers for just how embarassing it was), quickly shifting that nation to a democracy in response. They're nominally pro-Russian, but mostly just want to be left alone. Moscow has also announced a plan to land a man on the Moon by 1975, the Americans stating they'll match every moon landing.

*This world's 'AK-47'. Like the AK-47 a good 80% of weapons refered to as such are later models.
**I just realised this would confuse some comparing with Amerindian people. Oh well, it's not like Belarus stopped the non-communists in Russia from calling themselves White

Hmmm. I'm not entirely sure if the massive population movements in Russia are all that reasonable. Surely this would cause a great deal of resentment amongst ethnic minorities? This feels like a divide and rule strategy that won't last long.

Also, I'm slightly confused by the portrayal of the USSA. You always described it as never reaching the height of Stalinist abuses, but it feels like since the war the Party leadership has doubled down on dictatorship. Russia had no history of democracy, that Communism should take a dictatorial form was the most likely model. The US had over a century of democratic government before the revolution. I dont see people forgetting about that in a hurry. And the race thing particularly stands out. America's internal wars in this TL are deeply involved with anti-racist rhetoric. When the old government tried to invade, it was via the South. African Americans have a large, populous and probably prosperous autonomous republic. The USSAs founding mythology is probably built on anticapitalism and antiracism together. I just don't see this sudden turn toward white supremacy as all that plausible

 

[Serafim]

One more map
PoD - World War I is longer than in reality.

 

[gxblt]

Does anybody happen to have a worlda map with higher sea levels? About 7 metres would be preferable. Thank you immensely in advance.

 

[Beedok]

Hmmm. I'm not entirely sure if the massive population movements in Russia are all that reasonable. Surely this would cause a great deal of resentment amongst ethnic minorities? This feels like a divide and rule strategy that won't last long.

The movements are voluntary, just like the US Great Migration which saw roughly 6 million American blacks move voluntarily (~5 million of them moving between 1940 and 1970). It's also worth noting that some of those ethnic homelands have rather small populations. Dagestan for instance was only about 1.4 million at this time, and OTL peaked at ~20% Russian (and is here split with Azerbaijan). Kalmykia has sat around a quarter million to 300K, and at times had a Russian majority OTL. We're not talking about Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan, though Kyrgyztan would probably pass OTL's 30% Russian peak and Turkmenistan will definitely pass OTL's ~20% peak.

Also, I'm slightly confused by the portrayal of the USSA. You always described it as never reaching the height of Stalinist abuses, but it feels like since the war the Party leadership has doubled down on dictatorship. Russia had no history of democracy, that Communism should take a dictatorial form was the most likely model. The US had over a century of democratic government before the revolution. I dont see people forgetting about that in a hurry.

They slowly declined into a stronger dictatorship under the ~20 years of the Irons Presidency, though at the local levels there are still some fairly functional elections. The latest coup was a major hit against what remained of democracy. (Also there was a fair amount of anti-democracy rhetoric over the years, claims that frequent elections cause governments to only focus on the short term and other issues.) It's still not reached Stalinism levels of control though. Until the 1960s it wasn't too much worse than Putin's Russia in function.

And the race thing particularly stands out. America's internal wars in this TL are deeply involved with anti-racist rhetoric. When the old government tried to invade, it was via the South. African Americans have a large, populous and probably prosperous autonomous republic. The USSAs founding mythology is probably built on anticapitalism and antiracism together. I just don't see this sudden turn toward white supremacy as all that plausible

The USSR of OTL was big on ethnic unity and equality, yet had a strong habit of treating Russians better than anyone. The USSA here is fairly similar. A lot of whites also barely tolerated the Black autonomy in the south (despite high minded ideals amongst the ruling party) and it was only during the 9 Years War where the revanchists engaged in a number of anti-Black war crimes was what it took to get the majority to have favourable view on the experiment. This coup lacking Blacks however was more just an issue of Whites and minorities having different social circles due to coming from different parts of the country and the back room deals were built heavily on folks who rose through the ranks together (remember, despite the civil rights movement OTL it wasn't until the mid-90s that a majority of Americans were accepting of interracial marriage). The crackdown had some racial angles, but was more just meant as a statement on unity. Miscommunications and the ensuing violence have threatened to undo years of work erasing racial prejudice, but it started relatively 'innocently'* and was meant as just a crackdown on regional protesting, not a racial angle, but racism is once more rearing it's ugly head.

*as coup plotting goes

 

[roman8761]

alternate 1924

 

[Analyst]

Does anybody happen to have a worlda map with higher sea levels? About 7 metres would be preferable. Thank you immensely in advance.

Try the "Request Map/Flag" thread. This thread is primarily for Posting Maps.

(Though now I want to see that map too)

 

[Gian]

Anyways, I now have a separate thread for all ADR-related files, so maps (and other graphics I might have) will be posted in there (as well as Althistoria, and Deviantart)

Link.

 

[Doctor President]

This is a map of a scenario in which after its discovery in the early 1600s, the Dutch explore and settle Australia instead of generally ignoring it. Other European powers soon follow, trying to get their own part of Australia. Six colonies are successfully established:

• New Holland: The first European settlement in Australia. It is managed by the Dutch East India Company, and as a result, many of its settlers are Indonesians.
  
  
• Santa Marina: A colony of Portugal, the second country to settle Australia.
  
  
• New Wales: The British colony in Australia.
  
  
• Willemsland: A second Dutch colony. Unlike New Holland, it is not managed by the Dutch East India Company.
  
  
• Australie: The French colony in Australia.
  
  
• Nueva Galicia: The Spanish colony in Australia. It is part of the Viceroyalty of Peru.
  

 

[Fox-Fire]

With these maps I tried to keep everything as simple and minimalist as possible. This is the third stage of the Wars of British Hegemony. By this time I believe you all see where this is heading...

 

[Doctor President]

How do I make my map link directly to a DeviantArt page? And will that make it not have compression artifacts?

 

[Deleted member 93645]

With these maps I tried to keep everything as simple and minimalist as possible. This is the third stage of the Wars of British Hegemony. By this time I believe you all see where this is heading...

Is this meant to be a British Revolution instead of French Revolution?

 

[Fox-Fire]

Is this meant to be a British Revolution instead of French Revolution?

It could be interpreted as something of the sort. From the beginning of the XVIII century the British Parliament started to issue a series of reforms that created a much more liberal government. A sort of peaceful, gradual French Revolution, but in Great Britain of course (also, the monarch is still nominally in power). This is almost a century after and because of those reforms. The period is known in this world as The Audacity and in this moment, the beginning of the XIX century, it is in its most pure shape. Soon the British will find out that there is a limit to their benign neglect policies both in the colonies and in the mainland.

I'm flattered that there has been interest in this little project of a project of mine. Also, I'm surprised that no one has asked about the First Stage of the Wars of British Hegemony, seeing that the only named ones are the Second and Third ones. We have yet to see the Fourth and final stage... and it probably won't be in the way of what you expect.

 

[Zek Sora]

X-posting my MotF entry.

What Remains, Part 3: Last of the Vikings

(Click image for full size)

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Part 3 of my What Remains series, wherein there is a zombie apocalypse in 1898. Part 1 is here and Part 2 is here. (Yes, this does retcon Part 2's Scandinavian section, but please regard the rest of it as un-retconned until further notice.)

Since the Collapse, Scandinavia has been effectively divided between the regional power of Sweden and the world power of the United Kingdoms of Britain and its local ally/client state/constituent kingdom of Norway. The two powers mostly rule through local protectorates and naval domination (the Swedes of the Baltic, the Brits of pretty much everywhere else) rather than directly administering the various surviving regions, for various different reasons; the British don’t rule directly because they are already overstretched in other parts of the world, the Norwegians don’t because the British don’t, and the Swedes don’t because they’re busy enough already trying to recolonize the mainland and protect their colonies there.

As per usual in What Remains, I’ll do some national summaries.

British Bloc​

• United Kingdoms of Britain: (The fact that the UKB has had a writeup in every single map in the series thus far speaks not just to their high relevance in the post-Collapse world, but also to the increasing irrelevance of said writeups.) In the Scandinavian seas to the west of Denmark, the Royal Navy rules the waves, which gives them a fundamental chokehold on the various fishing-dependent states in the region should they choose to use it. This has allowed the Royal Navy, and by extension the UKB (the difference is highly blurred) to establish protectorates over most of the region.
• Kingdom of Norway: During the Collapse, what remained of the Norwegian government fled to the northern fjords, establishing Narvik as the “temporary” capital, protected by the cold and the mountains. In these mountains, they established a zone of control that would eventually evolve into the directly-ruled Kingdom. However, this was a long time coming, and there was a more immediate issue: rulership. The King of Sweden, Oscar II, was also technically the King of Norway, but the remnants of Sweden were far away in Gotland, and the British could guarantee open fishing waters forevermore, something that was essential to their survival. Thus, they agreed to take Queen Victoria as their new monarch, angering the Swedes and beginning the Swedish-British rivalry.
  • Jointly Administered Territories: Some smaller holdouts had survived in the northern fjords that were eager to rejoin Norway. However, they were disconnected and the Norwegian military (really just a collection of local militias) was having enough difficulty protecting the homeland, so it was the British who re-established control. A joint Anglo-Norwegian Condominium was established in Trondhjem (and the disconnected Varjag), where the Norwegians rule in name, and the British Governor-General rules in actuality.
• Kola: A remnant of the old Russian Empire, Kola was a collection of isolated northern fishing villages that came under British “protection” to secure their fishing waters.
• Romsdal: Romsdal began when local authorities in the Norwegian province of Romsdal managed to fight off the Horde thanks to their isolated mountain location. They were, however, reluctant to rejoin Norway because of their geographic isolation and their localist republicanism. They came under British protection for the same reason as Kola and Norway—fishing security.
• Lappland: Lappland is different from the other states in the bloc for several reasons, the main two of which being 1) that it did not come under British protection for fishing rights, and 2) that it is not a state. Lappland is a collection of nomadic Sami peoples, isolated towns, and snow held together by British military and a single operational railroad.

Swedish Bloc​

• Kingdom of Sweden: Thanks to the broken-up, island-based geography of Stockholm, the pre-Collapse Swedish capital, the Swedes were able to evacuate a fair chunk of its population to the islands of Gotland, Öland, and various scattered others, but more importantly they were able to evacuate the Swedish Navy, a force which now dominates the Baltic and keeps the Royal Navy from entering. The Swedes can be said to be like the United Kingdoms of Britain in that their monarch does not actually rule; the Swedish Navy does.
  • Mainland Territories: The Swedes have begun to extend their rule back onto the mainland. Some surviving villages were contacted, particularly the city of Luleå, which had cut off its peninsula from the Horde with a tall wall. It has been expensive work, but worth it for have the living space to ease the pressure in overcrowded Gotland.
• Kingdom of Denmark: The Danes were not as lucky as the Swedes, and were able to evacuate only a small chunk of their population to the island of Bornholm, not including their King. Long story short, the Swedish monarch is now also the Danish monarch.
• Esthonia: Another remnant of the old Russian Empire, this one not so eager to stay in it. Esthonia broke off from Russia as soon as they could, and took only ethnically Esthonian refugees onto their islands. This had the side effect of not many refugees coming to their islands, which allowed the now far more populous Swedes to establish a protectorate. Estonia is now mostly used for farmland to feed the hungry mouths in Gotland.
• Uleåborg: Uleåborg originated as just the city that shared its name, and a few connected towns and forts. However, the Swedes, after establishing a protectorate over it, extended its rule deep inland, so that they might rule over…even more frozen, underpopulated, individual Horde members wandering around here and there wasteland. They aren’t entirely grateful.

As usual, if you have any questions about this scenario or the world of What Remains, please ask away and I'll be happy to give a detailed answer!

Slightly fuller-size map

(click it for the full-full size)

​

 

[Clandango]

Well done, Zek. Looking briefly at your second map, may I ask if the various Native Amerians west of the Mississippi managed to go mobile? I imagine they would be helpful in the greater Deseret area. Though by this time perhaps they had been broken and kept to reservations where they would be sitting ducks.