Map Thread XIV

[Beedok]

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TOPIC: Are you carrying on with your Commie America map series. I was enjoying it a lot.

I will. Just trying to work out what happens next.

 

[Zek Sora]

What are the full stylings of the King?

As of the time of this map (1831-2): Emperor/Empress of Greater Britain and her Colonies, King/Queen of England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, the Netherlands, Georgia, Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New York, New England, Canada, and the Cape, Protector of Venezuela.

Is the property requirement much of a problem in the south with all the land available, or is it mostly gerrymandered, owned by planters, or do they have a monetary property requirement rather than sometimes unfertile land?

Depends on whose perspective you're looking at it from. Plantation owners and well-to-do farmers: not a problem. Small farmers: definitely a problem. The rules are constantly being adjusted so that only the higher echelons of society have the franchise.

Are any of the Kingdoms itching for the colonies and provinces bordering them that the Beitish still have, or do the Kingdoms know they aren't worth their time?

Not particularly, though Georgia's west is getting a little crowded. Mostly, the Provinces have separate identities from the Kingdoms, and the Kingdoms don't exactly hunger to rule them.

And are Americans trying to ove towards Louisianna or did they still believe the stuff about the Great American Desert?

As I said to Minchandre, you'll see about that when I post my next Century map.

Is the British King seen, either by Europeans, East Asians, South Asians, or his own subjects, as being on par with Emperors?

Europeans see HM as they see pretty much any previous British monarch (perfidious Albion ). For the rest, it mostly depends on whether HM rules them or not.

Thanks for the questions!

 

[Daniwani]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_French

One of my professors actually grew up on the Port-au-Port speaking French as a primary language. Though it's also worth noting that while the French saw Newfoundland as extremely valuable, they never did get into properly settling it (outside of Placentia that is), what little French exits today is Acadian derived and came in the 1800s, rather then from fishermen on the French Shore. Whether or not Newfoundland could have become French this late is probably up for debate, on one hand the French placed a very obvious value on it, and saw it as necessary for building a strong navy (If I can recall they were willing to sign away all their mainland American possessions for a deal that let them dry cod on the shore), but the value Britain placed on the Grand Banks fishery at this point could also not be understated. OTL the French actually succeeded in burning down and exiling every English settlement on the Island; twice (most notably the Avalon Peninsula Campaign under Pierre Le Moyne), and managed to take St. John's as well. That said none of these things mattered in the long run as it always went back to English hands.

The POD stated is 1717, with Maria Theresa being born a boy. This means that Queen Anne's war is already over and what little French presence in Newfoundland has been destroyed, any settled communities having been deported to Port Royal. At this point the French completely gave up on Newfoundland as a colony and just wanted to get as much out of the Fishery as possible, so as mentioned before most of the tension was over just how much land the French could salt and dry cod on, for how long, ect. The French DID take St. John's late in the Seven Years War, but there was never any intention to hold it. At this point France was aware of how the War in America would end, and wished to use Newfoundland as a bargaining chip. This failed, as the British took it back in what became the last battle of the North American theater.

So, with a POD after Queen Anne's War, it is highly unlikely that the French would ever be able to, or even strive to retake Newfoundland, even if we don't take into account British naval superiority. I'd probably say this goes double for a map where Britain holds Haiti/Hispaniola. Chances are that they would have almost certainly traded those at the negotiation table if either ever ended up in control of the other, especially with a POD after France officially renounced it's claims to territory in Newfoundland.

 

[deleonism]

My WIP where Maria Theresa is born a boy, extrapolated way ahead into roughly the 1920s, I'm guessing. Maybe a few decades less.

I've done that sort of thing with Africa before, it's not unique to me. But I like having modernised African nations, adds a lot of flavour.

P.S. That Florida is fucking hideous to me, and I've no clue why.

Other than all that Newfoundland business though!! I am a huge fan of this Africa, for one, and all the internal divisions you already have complete. It's nice to see an alternate Bavaria for once !!

 

[roman8761]

alternate 1556View attachment 275179

 

[Gwrtheyrn Annwn]

alternate 1556View attachment 275179

Interesting map, would love to hear some back story.

You do seem to have put the map on the post 3 times, though.

 

[Isaac Beach]

One of my professors actually grew up on the Port-au-Port speaking French as a primary language. Though it's also worth noting that while the French saw Newfoundland as extremely valuable, they never did get into properly settling it (outside of Placentia that is), what little French exits today is Acadian derived and came in the 1800s, rather then from fishermen on the French Shore. Whether or not Newfoundland could have become French this late is probably up for debate, on one hand the French placed a very obvious value on it, and saw it as necessary for building a strong navy (If I can recall they were willing to sign away all their mainland American possessions for a deal that let them dry cod on the shore), but the value Britain placed on the Grand Banks fishery at this point could also not be understated. OTL the French actually succeeded in burning down and exiling every English settlement on the Island; twice (most notably the Avalon Peninsula Campaign under Pierre Le Moyne), and managed to take St. John's as well. That said none of these things mattered in the long run as it always went back to English hands.

The POD stated is 1717, with Maria Theresa being born a boy. This means that Queen Anne's war is already over and what little French presence in Newfoundland has been destroyed, any settled communities having been deported to Port Royal. At this point the French completely gave up on Newfoundland as a colony and just wanted to get as much out of the Fishery as possible, so as mentioned before most of the tension was over just how much land the French could salt and dry cod on, for how long, ect. The French DID take St. John's late in the Seven Years War, but there was never any intention to hold it. At this point France was aware of how the War in America would end, and wished to use Newfoundland as a bargaining chip. This failed, as the British took it back in what became the last battle of the North American theater.

So, with a POD after Queen Anne's War, it is highly unlikely that the French would ever be able to, or even strive to retake Newfoundland, even if we don't take into account British naval superiority. I'd probably say this goes double for a map where Britain holds Haiti/Hispaniola. Chances are that they would have almost certainly traded those at the negotiation table if either ever ended up in control of the other, especially with a POD after France officially renounced it's claims to territory in Newfoundland.

Well I'm not particularly attached to Quebecois Newfoundland do I'll change that in a jiffy. Not worth the debate frankly.

EDIT: As in not worth me keeping and debating it. That was all very constructive.

Other than all that Newfoundland business though!! I am a huge fan of this Africa, for one, and all the internal divisions you already have complete. It's nice to see an alternate Bavaria for once !!

Thanks. I'm pretty happy with it actually, happier than I am with Europe as a matter of fact. I like me some administrative division so I can't wait to sketch up some states, territories and integrated polities

 

[Tallest Skil]

nucleur wepons in 1929

Quick question: how?

 

[PachPachis]

Here's a WIP map of the world of the Æon Trinity tabletop RPG. Basically, it takes place over 100 years in the future some years after the Aberrant War (which took place in the 80s!), where the superhuman solders used to enforce world peace rebelled, but were ultimately driven away into space. The titular Æon Trinity is a coordinating body for Psi-Orders, basically any organization which can give cool mind superpowers to its members. These range from a Ministry of the Chinese government (now an empire again, an Aberrant blew up the Three Gorges dam and ate most of the central government) to a PMC based in the Austronesian Union, to a megacorporation based in the Federated States of America (the military took charge during the war and decided they liked it. Borderline fascist now, but luckily the districts are so independent of each other FSA politics have been likened to trying to wrangle a schizophrenic hydra). Europe is not a great place to be right now. France is full-on mad max, and most of the other governments are about as stable as present-day Africa. Africa, ironically, is like present-day Europe. Not the #1 power (that would probably be either China or Austronesia), but wields plenty of 'soft' power. The orangey areas are controlled directly by psi orders, usually containment zones for Aberrants still on Earth. The black spot north of Siberia is the last independent Aberrant stronghold on Earth, currently about to be completely destroyed by China. It has a few months left, if we're being optimistic.

 

[22iron thunder]

For Peace, For Union
California Union

 

[TwiliAlchemist]

So, yeah, another 1984 world. I've been working on it for a few months and critic/suggestions would be neat. One thing I would like to note is that there are practically no civil rights for minorities in this world.

Oceania:
Central American Union - *Easier to control large puppets*
Gran Colombia - " " "
Brasil - " " "
Andean Union - " " "
South Africa - " " "
Australasia - " " "
Celtic Union - Created to spite those traitorous B̶r̶i̶t̶s̶ residents of E̶n̶g̶l̶a̶n̶d̶ Airstrip One.
Argentina - " " "

Eurasia:
Germany - Still divided, no one really care in Germany at this point.
Roman Republic - Pax Romana... Kinda.
Turkey - Revenge against the former US ally, Eurasia will show you what happens if you side with those capitalist dogs.
Kurdistan - The Kurds got a state... and now have to worry about the Holy Caliphate in their front yard.
France - Relevant to world events since a large protest against ended with... What protest? There was never a protest. There has always been peace in France.

Eastasia:
Afghanistan - "We'll take care of that Caliphate in a bit. How much harm could a rebel group like that do?"
Japan - The final Sino-Japanese war didn't go so well for Japan.
Manchuria - Easier to manage a puppet territory against Eurasia.
Korea - One Korea is best Korea. Think North Korea on steroids.
Tibet - "We can't kill them all and they won't listen to us. Give them a state where religion can be practiced, but make sure to keep them on a very short leash."
Hokkaido - *See Japan*

States that are like the Big Three
Holy Caliphate - Taking the idea of the Big Three and applying it to Islam to create an Islamic State. Strict interpretation of Sharia Law. Currently invading the last of the independent Arabian States, Afghanistan, and Pakistan of the United Indian States. Probably going to get crushed once Eastasia is done with Mongolia.
Republic of China - Occasionally called Hong Kong or Indochina, China has a large military to protect itself from everybody. Isolationist and un-trusting, acts like the big three with brainwashing their citizens and secret police.
United Indies - Dutch East Indies, US controlled Philippines, Indonesia, and what is left of "Free Australia" united to be protected from everyone. More expansionist and claims to represent the Free World, but with corrupt officials, democracy is dead in these lands.

European Refugees: Pretty much European colonies that large amounts of Europeans fled to when Eurasia expanded.
Saharan Republic - Former French West Africa, closest thing there is to a democracy in this world.
Kingdom of Morocco - Islamic? Yeah, but very tolerant, at least with religions, really doesn't like the large amount of Europeans who are seeming to want to overthrow the King.
"Europe in Exile" - A very dramatic name for a large amount of territory controlled by "European" States. Claiming that their situation is only temporary and that they will take back Europe one day, with or without the other Exiled nations.
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Africa - The Royal Family fled to the only African colony that would take them in. Claims that Great Britain is still theirs even thought they haven't had control since the 1930s.
Italian Libya - Role is in the title. Most Italians fled here. Semi-democratic, eyeing Egypt
Europe Collective - A military and economic alliance that hopes to keep Old Europe from dying in the plains of Africa.

Abrahamic States: States that claim to follow religions descended from Abraham.
State of Israel - Jewish State, a semi-democratic state, boasts one of the largest actual military in the world. Really hoping that the Holy Caliphate will leave them allow for now, but isn't afraid to put up a fight.
Egyptian Kingdom - Islamic State, more democratic than Israel, but not by much. While under less threat from the Holy Caliphate, it tends to stress out more with a large amount of Europeans on their doorstep who are starting to eye Egypt for their more fertile land.
Ethiopia - Christian State, Democratic? Yes. Large military? Yes. Stressed out by both Europeans and the Holy Caliphate? Yes.

Other: Everyone else
United Indian States - More of an alliance than an actual federal state. Mainly to stand against being taken over by Eastasia or by the Holy Caliphate.
Mongolia - Currently having a bad time, being invaded by both Eurasia and Eastasia. Not long for this world.

I apologize for the crumby write-up. I wanted to make a different world than what I say when most people do covers of 1984.

 

[Upvoteanthology]

I don't really want to advertise or anything, but I did just write something pretty large for my little map series-type project. If any of you guys remember Lulach's Legacy, this is one of the old maps I made for it, redone with a better writeup. Hope you guys enjoy!

You may be asking, “Why is Europe far different from our timeline, even though the only point of divergence is a Scottish king being sent out to sea?”. Ultimately, it all comes down to the butterflies from the exile, how it affected the Scottish government, and the relationships the merchants from Lulachfrýgyld had with Europeans. After the capture of Lulach by Malcolm, his son Mael was payed off to support the new monarchy. It took quite a bit of money to get him to give up the throne, which destabilized the Scottish government in the long run. Mael’s children, and later descendants, would become high-ranking lords in the Scottish feudal system. After the truth came forth that Malcolm gave money away to Lulach’s son, someone the people of Scotland hated, he began to slowly lose his credibility. After finding out that Mael had sent him away with supplies, and that he was probably alive in another part of Europe, the Scottish monarchy was on the verge of collapse once more. While it didn’t fall apart immediately, the shady trade would become one of the first nails in a very small coffin. By the year 1100, Scotland would fall, though not for the shoddy monarchy alone.

Firstly, after the instatement of the House of Moray (Mael’s family) as feudal lords, other nobles began to go against the king. Scotland, at the time, was not under the harsh rule of the Catholic Church to the same degree as the rest of Europe, and issues arising from the manors managed to work their way up to the top. Some high ranking officials would even go so far as to bribe mercenaries, merely to make fun of King Malcolm. Secondly, external forces began to have their way in Scotland. The Scandinavians, which had been declining due to the rise of the Catholic church, saw opportunity in capturing Scotland, and possibly even using it as a way to rebound their power. In 1076, Sweyn II of Denmark invaded and captured King Malcolm, killing his heirs and taking over the country. It was originally operated under a puppet monarchy, but Denmark saw it easy to take over such a divisive nation, especially after the damage caused by Lulach, the Moray, and Malcolm. By the early twelfth century, they didn’t believe it was necessary to keep a puppet monarchy, technically uniting the two kingdoms under a single crown.

The uniting of Scotland and Denmark had consequences of its own, consequences that had began to extend to the rest of Europe. Although it was originally quite decentralized, the Danish kings became much more powerful in the 1100’s. By adopting more Mediterranean ideas, they were able to strengthen themselves. One thing the kings didn’t appreciate adopting, however, was the rule of the church. Denmark, with a cash cow in Scotland, didn’t need the aid of the Pope anymore. Of course being excommunicated, and maybe even interdicted, wouldn’t be the best thing in the world, but it was better for the king to be powerful than well-liked. The feudal system was still quite powerful, but the monarchs began to have the upper hand. After the death of the Geatish King Karl Sverkersson in 1167, the Danes usurped the throne. A few years later, the weak Norwegian nobles began to surrender, one by one, to the Danes. It was not what we would consider a conventional war, however. The annexation mostly consisted of the kings being killed, not entire armies. All it took was an announcement that the Geats were under Danish rule to unite a nation. Of course, it wasn’t ideal to be under the rule of someone so far away, but the serfs of Sweden had bigger things to worry about. In the year 1224, all of Scandinavia was united under King Thorkil I, King of the Danish, the Sænskr (Swedish), the Geats, the Nordics, and the Skozkr (Scottish).

As the thirteenth century rolled on, Scandinavia centered its power, and was able to fight as a powerful country. It was representative of a new type of nation, one never before seen in Europe. Taking cues from the Vikings and their seafaring ways, the Scandinavian government was quite fractured. While there weren’t any more clans, the nobles would have a large amount of power in the land, as long as they swore fealty to the King. However, in contrast to the rest of the feudal system, the King still had far more power than the nobles. Not only did their have their own personal army to use against the lords if they chose to rebel, they also had the people on their side. By rejecting the Christian church, the Scandinavian King was the head of a different branch, and was revered for it. King Thorkil managed to do something amazing in his reign, which was spinning the “lies” of the Catholic church back on them. Even through their threats of interdict, the Scandinavian military was able to hold up, and the king claimed that rule by a Pope was against Jesus’ preachings. Of course this wasn’t true, but it was ultimately one of the main ways the Scandinavian branch of Christianity began to diverge. The people, of course, didn’t care. After the people who remembered Thorkil’s reign began to die, people didn’t remember what happened. All they knew was that the way to get closer to god, the way to get up to heaven, was to pray in a Scandinavian church.

One seemingly unrelated issue, the issue of the Mongols, ties back into the new Scandinavian kingdom. With a weaker Christian church, they have less room to mobilize their military, meaning that a foreign empire could carve out more area in Roman Catholic areas such as the HRE. Of course, the Mongols here didn’t actually get too much more land, they only managed to hold onto it better. Some small khanates in Russia, before being absorbed by Poland or Lithuania, formed different branches of Christianity as a way of holding their citizens down. The 1200’s and 1300’s frequently consisted of the upper class using the serfs. With the King of Scandinavia changing the face of their religion because the people had no way to keep written records, to the Mongols eventually installing Christian rulers, and changing the religion because they knew they held the power. A lack of a powerful force during the High Middle Ages might also explain the rebound of the Byzantines. Instead of the Catholic Church holding power over the Orthodox, it was a more even split. A few crusades still took place, but the disaster known as the Fourth Crusade never happened due to conflicts in the north. With that, the Byzantine Empire survived, and also lived to fund the few surviving crusader states.

Outside of the Byzantines, Scandinavia, and the Middle East, not a lot is different. Except for one particular nation; England. After Scandinavia took over Northumbria in the late-1200’s, England shifted their priorities south. The Norman conquest still went roughly the same as it did OTL, except for a few small details. For example, the original government fell sooner, and the Normans were able to hold rule for far longer (with the Danes in Scotland, why not the Normans in England?). With a more assimilated Anglo-Norman culture, they were able to expand into France far easier. They had to if they wanted to survive against the Scandinavians, after all. After a brief unity between the crowns of England, Normandy, and France in the 1300’s, their possessions began to grow smaller, as the English kings refused to adopt French mannerisms. However, the “Englishness” of England began to fade, as survival took priority in the minds of the kings. They would have rather kept France and adopted parts of the language and ruling class than be taken over by Scandinavia. By the fifteenth century, England was quite Frenchized, even though their culture was still viewed as “English”. The spoken language was quite similar to what we’d describe as French, while the written language was more similar to Norse.

With more people taking advantage of the lack of education in Europe, one would think that the continent, by 1450, is a very dark place. However, other factors also promoted political and technological growth. While there wasn’t a Renaissance forming, it was a slower transition from the Dark Ages to civilized society. A less powerful Catholic Church, especially in Britain and Germany, means the earlier fall of the feudal system, especially as people began to die in the Crusades. The diseases brought on by the Mongols (though not as bad as IOTL) also made the nobles less powerful. Plus, furs and fish coming in from the strange land to the west allowed for richer trade, with Venice becoming known for its strange amount of Coffeetree wood. In addition to all that, the advent of the Scandinavians spread the ideas of empire through Northern Europe, giving the Europeans the resources needed to create a “Caliphate” of their own. Ultimately, the 1400’s brought more power to the monarchy, a shift in priorities to making the world more literate (Scandinavian Christianity dropped a bit in popularity, but there were still no written records of the 1200’s), and a greater connection to the rest of the world.

 

[bm2617]

Butterflies: the cause and solution of all our AH problems...

Nice map, as usual. How centralized is the HRE, and aside from Venice and the Scandies trading, is anyone getting into the Western Continent Colonizing game?

 

[bm2617]

And that's me, Bruce. Not sure why I am now bm2617: I was just trying for a new password.

 

[Upvoteanthology]

Butterflies: the cause and solution of all our AH problems...

Nice map, as usual. How centralized is the HRE, and aside from Venice and the Scandies trading, is anyone getting into the Western Continent Colonizing game?

Until the official discovery by Lund in 1451, the western lands are sort of a grey area. The only country that has solid colonies there is Navarre, with everything else coming from Frygian or Basque trading ships. I believe I also mentioned once offhand of some Frygian generals serving in the courts of Scandinavia. And thank you for liking my map!

Also, I feel like I need some suggestions on where to go next. I mean, I have loose plans for North and South America, but I'd like to know what people want me to add. Any requests?

 

[bm2617]

Curious what's happening to the rest of the Mongol world for one thing...

Here's an ASB scenario map, writeup here. https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/asb-settings.158644/page-128#post-12400813

View attachment 275243

 

[roman8761]

View attachment 275252 alternate 1672

 

[Iserlohn]

The first map of mine for the new board software, without much of a backstory and just a few ideas of mine I wanted to put into cartographic art. Enjoy!

 

[bm2617]

WIP (slooowly) in progress: the US from the DMZ comic series. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMZ_(comics) ) Dark brown are major militia/insurgent groups, light brown minor local pro-rebel areas, peach/tan preexisting state structures cooperating with or at least staying neutral with respect to the "Free States of America." Dark green "territorial" color within US controlled area are areas under military administration or martial law due to rebel activity or border positions, and the bright green is the "Washington Defensive Perimeter", where nobody as much as breathes without the military and security forces permission.

 

[Dorozhand]

WIP (slooowly) in progress: the US from the DMZ comic series. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMZ_(comics) ) Dark brown are major militia/insurgent groups, light brown minor local pro-rebel areas, peach/tan preexisting state structures cooperating with or at least staying neutral with respect to the "Free States of America." Dark green "territorial" color within US controlled area are areas under military administration or martial law due to rebel activity or border positions, and the bright green is the "Washington Defensive Perimeter", where nobody as much as breathes without the military and security forces permission.

View attachment 275292

This setting looks really interesting.