I'd agree, they don't look very natural. *China in particular bothers me...
Map Thread XIV
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I'd agree, they don't look very natural. *China in particular bothers me...
To be fair, the Chinese borders were *meant* to be unnatural. Most of them are settlement districts so splitting up lands that are to either be razed or repopulated into rather odd shapes to keep away cooperation is what the Mongols were going for.
Truly awe-inspiring.
A few questions:
So provinces and counties, I assume, are about the same thing, parts of the world-raj with direct representation in Parliament?
What are "Palatine counties?" I have heard of knights Palatine of the HRE, which usually held wee little territories, but I imagine this isn't quite the same. I see you also have "Palatine zones" and "Palatine vassals", so I expect this will be complicated...
What's the political difference between "autonomous vassal" and "autonomous province."
Are "directly controlled" areas held by the Crown colony-style, or do they have some form of representation?
Is a "Mediate" vassal a vassal of a vassal?
Do the colors aside from the various shades of red/pink have any significance besides allowing keeping track of states spread out between multiple locations?
Unnatural is fine, but they're just not aesthetically pleasing. And, in this thread anyway, that's pretty important.
What are "Palatine counties?" I have heard of knights Palatine of the HRE, which usually held wee little territories, but I imagine this isn't quite the same. I see you also have "Palatine zones" and "Palatine vassals", so I expect this will be complicated...
They do share the same Late Roman/Carolingian origin (comes palatinus, litterally "count of the palace", an high-administrative/military rank) but while in the Empire and (albeit less so) in France it eventually named particularily powerful counts, it was more or less the equivalent of marches (or apanages) in medieval England and were significantly autonomous : exempt of a lot of obligations of other nobiliar territories in the kingdom, or having their own coinage for exemple.
Still a bit unclear as to why three different types, though. And how exactly do they differ from "autonomous vassals?"
Well, historically, some counties or palatine counties were "upgraded" as duchies but it was essentially cosmetic. I'm under the impression it might be somewhat similar with palatine zones and territories, but Alex_Richards may have another idea about his own map
I suspect that "autonomous vassals" are principalties that beneficy from an even more independent policy (at least on paper) compared to other autonomous territories, a bit like princly states.
I'm puzzled myself, tough, by the use of "Pays d'Etat" for such territories in the Crown of France tough : provincial estates implied direct royal control over a region historically, quite the contrary than what seems to be depicted on this map.
Zek Sora
Donor
X-posting my MotF entry, sorry for massive writeup :/
“At the time, though, it was incredibly controversial, which is something we tend to forget. The controversy wasn’t around the aims of the war, not really; it was about its conduct. The war, while initially sparking patriotic fervor throughout the nation, quickly became unpopular thanks to a combination of a stronger-than-expected Spanish resistance turning it into a bloody affair and a drastic economic recession, which wasn’t really due to the war, though the war probably didn’t help.
“The widespread discontent in the nation was a major factor in the election of William Jennings Bryan [1] and, as would follow, the decisive demise of the Third Party System. However, we won’t really talk about that, since this is an East Asian History class. There are plenty of good classes here covering this period in the United States, especially America Advancing, which I cannot recommend highly enough.
“Anyways, getting back on track. The Spanish attempted to drag out the peace negotiations as long as possible in hopes of getting better terms from a Bryan administration, but the threat of the war beginning again finally pushed them into signing a treaty that, among other things, set Cuba up as an independent republic and gave the Philippines to the United States to do with as it pleased. The McKinley administration immediately set to creating a military territory in the islands, against the inhabitants’ wishes, in hopes of making the annexation of the Philippines a moot point before the anti-imperialist Bryan could enter the office.
“Bryan, of course, was enraged by this, and swore publicly that he would grant independence to the Philippines immediately upon taking the oath of office. Bryan was true to his word, but the damage to the Philippines was already done—much of the revolutionary army had been defeated by the U.S. occupying forces, and in many places (especially the predominantly Muslim) southern island of Mindanao, the occupying forces were the only ones providing law and order.
“This left the new Provisional Government of the Philippines in a very tough spot, from which the pacifist Bryan made clear he would not aid them with military forces. The Provisional Government would eventually dig itself out of that hole, but the early destruction of most of their command structure ensured that the First Republic would never have full effective control over Mindanao.
“Over the next few decades, the government of the First Republic evolved into a corrupt, somewhat inefficient but definitely democratic state, dominated by two main factions: the Constitutionalists and the Limiters. Their main disagreement revolved around distribution of powers—the Constitutionalists supported a strong central government and a powerful executive, while the Limiters supported more local governance as well as granting more power to the Assembly, the legislature.
“The various disputes between the two factions tend to get pretty arcane, and they weren’t really well-defined on other issues, so we won’t really go into that period, but suffice it to say that there was a fair amount of deadlock and corruption during that time. Besides, foreign powers have usually played an outsize role in the history of the Philippines, and the period of the First Republic is no exception. After Bryan granted the Philippines their independence, he largely left them alone, though making it clear that, similarly to the Monroe Doctrine, any attempt to recolonize the Philippines would be met with hostility from the United States.
“The subsequent President, Theodore Roosevelt, took a slightly more involved approach, signing an official military alliance with the Republic. That alliance was never put to the test; the mere fact of its existence was enough to keep away any would-be predators, like the British or French seeking a new protectorate, or especially the Japanese, whose motives were unknown at the time.
“With the United States’ post-war slump into isolationism, though, the vultures began to circle. The Republic managed to play the various powers that wanted the strategic and economic advantages of having the Philippines under their influence off of one another for a while, but that could only last for so long, especially with a government growing more and more divided. Eventually, in 1934, the pro-Japanese faction of the Constitutionalists launched a successful coup d’état, taking power with fairly little bloodshed. That didn’t last.
“After the new government’s third delay of elections, many in the Philippines began to notice that the Permanent Assembly—which was a group of representatives chosen to govern while the main Assembly was not in session [2]—was beginning to act more and more like a junta. The response after the fourth delay was swift and violent. Most of the countryside was secured by various militias, and it was here that the Communists first became a major force in Philippine history. They had previously been a minor party under the First Republic, but now held territory in much of the middle Philippines. They began to co-opt most of the other rebel movements there and consolidate their control in the area.
“While they did so, the junta requested the aid of Japan in putting down the rebels. Their answer came in the form of a fleet full of Imperial Japanese Army soldiers, who immediately set about two tasks: the first being the request for aid, and the second being the securing of absolute control over the Philippine Islands. It wasn’t long before it was the local Japanese commander who was ruling the islands, rather than the junta. Not all of the islands, of course—the Communists still held out in the central regions, and the Muslim south had never really been under the rule of the Republic.
“As the tide of the Pacific War [3] began to turn severely against them, the Japanese were forced to withdraw their troops from the Philippines, leaving behind them a vacuum of various insurgent groups and regions largely without responsible government. The Communists saw their chance here and took it. There being no other organized, determined force in the islands, they quickly secured all of the territory of the former First Republic. This would shortly include the Muslim-controlled south as well, and even the previously technically-independent (though a protectorate of the First Republic) Sultanate of Sulu, though they were somewhat self-governing.
“With support from the Communist International, the Philippines rapidly found themselves with a new set of friends externally, and a new set of enemies. Internally, the situation was much the same. Those who had done well for themselves under the previous regime—or the First Republic—quickly found their livelihoods “redistributed”, if they were lucky. If not, they disappeared. The redistribution soon stopped under the new Communist regime, but the disappearances did not. More on that later. The history of the Communist regime in the Philippines is, like that of the First Republic, very involved for not a lot of major events, though it is worthwhile to go over their ideology a bit.
“The Communist Party of the Philippines was a definitively National Marxian organization [4]—that is, they believed the naturally superior form of government to be a dictatorship of the proletariat, wherein the Communist Party would, as the voice of the proletariat, decide the allocation of the state’s various resources and the best way to bring about Communism in their nation. This led to a pretty much standard, heavily bureaucratic, Communist rule, as Communist states go.
“That orthodox government is all the more surprising when one considers the complete lack of violence involved in its downfall—certainly not standard for many communist regimes. Basically, a reformist leader came into power through the channels of the Party and revealed enough of its dirty secrets—remember those disappearances I mentioned earlier?—that a massive popular movement arose both from the common citizens and from non-high level members of the Party itself. Eventually, the Premier was forced to declare the next elections for the Assembly open to all voters and candidates, not just Party members.
“The Communist Party was swept out on the massive tide of new voters, and the newly elected Assembly voted, as the last act of the Assembly of the People’s Republic of the Philippines, to dissolve the People’s Republic and gather a group of politicians, statesmen, and various political thinkers to write a new Constitution for the Second Republic of the Philippines. With that, the Philippines truly entered the modern era.
“The remainder of Philippine history up to the present has largely been a series of economic successes, balanced by social failures. The Philippines is considered an “Asian Tiger” [4], one of the fastest-developing states in the region—unsurprising given its potential and peaceful transfer of government encouraging investors. Unfortunately, the predominately Muslim, or Moro, south has grown more and more restless; protests against Manila are frequent there, and as I’m sure you all heard, the central government has been pushed into holding a referendum on independence there. We’ll see how that turns out; the polling there has been pretty scarce, and what has come in has been pretty contradictory.
“Ultimately, nobody really knows what’s next for the Philippines. Most Filipinos hope that they can continue the same economic growth while working past some of the social problems that have been plaguing their country of late. The results of the upcoming referendum should be a pretty good indicator as to whether or not that will turn out to be possible.”
—From a lecture given by Professor Caroline Kennedy at Harvard University on Philippine history in the 20th century
——————————————
[1] The biggest PoD. I’m working on another thing regarding American politics ITTL; it should be released soon over at AH.Com.
[2] Fun fact: this was actually in the Malolos Constitution, the OTL first Philippine constitution.
[3] Not the Pacific theater of OTL WWII. This is a different thing.
[4] Means a similar thing to OTL, just different countries involved.
Through Trial and Tears
“The Spanish-American War, also known as the War of Cuban Independence and the Philippine Revolution, is today one of the least controversial wars the United States has participated in. It’s considered by many to be the first great active expression of the American anti-imperialist international philosophy, as opposed to the passive expression of the Monroe Doctrine.
“At the time, though, it was incredibly controversial, which is something we tend to forget. The controversy wasn’t around the aims of the war, not really; it was about its conduct. The war, while initially sparking patriotic fervor throughout the nation, quickly became unpopular thanks to a combination of a stronger-than-expected Spanish resistance turning it into a bloody affair and a drastic economic recession, which wasn’t really due to the war, though the war probably didn’t help.
“The widespread discontent in the nation was a major factor in the election of William Jennings Bryan [1] and, as would follow, the decisive demise of the Third Party System. However, we won’t really talk about that, since this is an East Asian History class. There are plenty of good classes here covering this period in the United States, especially America Advancing, which I cannot recommend highly enough.
“Anyways, getting back on track. The Spanish attempted to drag out the peace negotiations as long as possible in hopes of getting better terms from a Bryan administration, but the threat of the war beginning again finally pushed them into signing a treaty that, among other things, set Cuba up as an independent republic and gave the Philippines to the United States to do with as it pleased. The McKinley administration immediately set to creating a military territory in the islands, against the inhabitants’ wishes, in hopes of making the annexation of the Philippines a moot point before the anti-imperialist Bryan could enter the office.
“Bryan, of course, was enraged by this, and swore publicly that he would grant independence to the Philippines immediately upon taking the oath of office. Bryan was true to his word, but the damage to the Philippines was already done—much of the revolutionary army had been defeated by the U.S. occupying forces, and in many places (especially the predominantly Muslim) southern island of Mindanao, the occupying forces were the only ones providing law and order.
“This left the new Provisional Government of the Philippines in a very tough spot, from which the pacifist Bryan made clear he would not aid them with military forces. The Provisional Government would eventually dig itself out of that hole, but the early destruction of most of their command structure ensured that the First Republic would never have full effective control over Mindanao.
“Over the next few decades, the government of the First Republic evolved into a corrupt, somewhat inefficient but definitely democratic state, dominated by two main factions: the Constitutionalists and the Limiters. Their main disagreement revolved around distribution of powers—the Constitutionalists supported a strong central government and a powerful executive, while the Limiters supported more local governance as well as granting more power to the Assembly, the legislature.
“The various disputes between the two factions tend to get pretty arcane, and they weren’t really well-defined on other issues, so we won’t really go into that period, but suffice it to say that there was a fair amount of deadlock and corruption during that time. Besides, foreign powers have usually played an outsize role in the history of the Philippines, and the period of the First Republic is no exception. After Bryan granted the Philippines their independence, he largely left them alone, though making it clear that, similarly to the Monroe Doctrine, any attempt to recolonize the Philippines would be met with hostility from the United States.
“The subsequent President, Theodore Roosevelt, took a slightly more involved approach, signing an official military alliance with the Republic. That alliance was never put to the test; the mere fact of its existence was enough to keep away any would-be predators, like the British or French seeking a new protectorate, or especially the Japanese, whose motives were unknown at the time.
“With the United States’ post-war slump into isolationism, though, the vultures began to circle. The Republic managed to play the various powers that wanted the strategic and economic advantages of having the Philippines under their influence off of one another for a while, but that could only last for so long, especially with a government growing more and more divided. Eventually, in 1934, the pro-Japanese faction of the Constitutionalists launched a successful coup d’état, taking power with fairly little bloodshed. That didn’t last.
“After the new government’s third delay of elections, many in the Philippines began to notice that the Permanent Assembly—which was a group of representatives chosen to govern while the main Assembly was not in session [2]—was beginning to act more and more like a junta. The response after the fourth delay was swift and violent. Most of the countryside was secured by various militias, and it was here that the Communists first became a major force in Philippine history. They had previously been a minor party under the First Republic, but now held territory in much of the middle Philippines. They began to co-opt most of the other rebel movements there and consolidate their control in the area.
“While they did so, the junta requested the aid of Japan in putting down the rebels. Their answer came in the form of a fleet full of Imperial Japanese Army soldiers, who immediately set about two tasks: the first being the request for aid, and the second being the securing of absolute control over the Philippine Islands. It wasn’t long before it was the local Japanese commander who was ruling the islands, rather than the junta. Not all of the islands, of course—the Communists still held out in the central regions, and the Muslim south had never really been under the rule of the Republic.
“As the tide of the Pacific War [3] began to turn severely against them, the Japanese were forced to withdraw their troops from the Philippines, leaving behind them a vacuum of various insurgent groups and regions largely without responsible government. The Communists saw their chance here and took it. There being no other organized, determined force in the islands, they quickly secured all of the territory of the former First Republic. This would shortly include the Muslim-controlled south as well, and even the previously technically-independent (though a protectorate of the First Republic) Sultanate of Sulu, though they were somewhat self-governing.
“With support from the Communist International, the Philippines rapidly found themselves with a new set of friends externally, and a new set of enemies. Internally, the situation was much the same. Those who had done well for themselves under the previous regime—or the First Republic—quickly found their livelihoods “redistributed”, if they were lucky. If not, they disappeared. The redistribution soon stopped under the new Communist regime, but the disappearances did not. More on that later. The history of the Communist regime in the Philippines is, like that of the First Republic, very involved for not a lot of major events, though it is worthwhile to go over their ideology a bit.
“The Communist Party of the Philippines was a definitively National Marxian organization [4]—that is, they believed the naturally superior form of government to be a dictatorship of the proletariat, wherein the Communist Party would, as the voice of the proletariat, decide the allocation of the state’s various resources and the best way to bring about Communism in their nation. This led to a pretty much standard, heavily bureaucratic, Communist rule, as Communist states go.
“That orthodox government is all the more surprising when one considers the complete lack of violence involved in its downfall—certainly not standard for many communist regimes. Basically, a reformist leader came into power through the channels of the Party and revealed enough of its dirty secrets—remember those disappearances I mentioned earlier?—that a massive popular movement arose both from the common citizens and from non-high level members of the Party itself. Eventually, the Premier was forced to declare the next elections for the Assembly open to all voters and candidates, not just Party members.
“The Communist Party was swept out on the massive tide of new voters, and the newly elected Assembly voted, as the last act of the Assembly of the People’s Republic of the Philippines, to dissolve the People’s Republic and gather a group of politicians, statesmen, and various political thinkers to write a new Constitution for the Second Republic of the Philippines. With that, the Philippines truly entered the modern era.
“The remainder of Philippine history up to the present has largely been a series of economic successes, balanced by social failures. The Philippines is considered an “Asian Tiger” [4], one of the fastest-developing states in the region—unsurprising given its potential and peaceful transfer of government encouraging investors. Unfortunately, the predominately Muslim, or Moro, south has grown more and more restless; protests against Manila are frequent there, and as I’m sure you all heard, the central government has been pushed into holding a referendum on independence there. We’ll see how that turns out; the polling there has been pretty scarce, and what has come in has been pretty contradictory.
“Ultimately, nobody really knows what’s next for the Philippines. Most Filipinos hope that they can continue the same economic growth while working past some of the social problems that have been plaguing their country of late. The results of the upcoming referendum should be a pretty good indicator as to whether or not that will turn out to be possible.”
—From a lecture given by Professor Caroline Kennedy at Harvard University on Philippine history in the 20th century
——————————————
[1] The biggest PoD. I’m working on another thing regarding American politics ITTL; it should be released soon over at AH.Com.
[2] Fun fact: this was actually in the Malolos Constitution, the OTL first Philippine constitution.
[3] Not the Pacific theater of OTL WWII. This is a different thing.
[4] Means a similar thing to OTL, just different countries involved.
Isaac Beach
Banned
Welp, that is beautiful. Lovely write up, though it has always amazed me how long these people can talk for.
Query; I'm pretty certain that, with the exception of Romania, most countries at least of the Warsaw Pact overthrew their communist governments peacefully. This posts seems to imply that that was an uncommon occurrence ITTL. Does that mean the breakup of this world's Communist Internationale was more violent?
And will the Moro secede? Or is that something to keep us on the edge of your seats for later?
I gotta say, I think this might be my favourite designed map of the year. Or at least as far as I can remember so far.
Zek Sora
Donor
Thank you! And yes, it astounds me as well.
Well, international communism is a very different thing ITTL, given that the PoD is almost 20 years prior to the Russian Civil War and the establishment of the Soviet Union. You'll also notice that I never actually referred to any large-scale collapse of the International; only that some Communist regimes had fallen. I'm still working out what should happen with that one, honestly.
And will the Moro secede? Or is that something to keep us on the edge of your seats for later?
Good question.
That's high praise. Thank you!
I still think it would be plausible to subdivide Svealand. Svealand, just like Geatland, has never been an politically important subdivision of Sweden.
Oh I know. Just thought that would be funny.
@Zek Sora for some reason I read that in Barack Obama's voice. Anyway, awesome map, very interesting!
What I do is to put down 'dots' randomly and when link them together, adjusting if need be.
Wait, wait..here`s sum more.
What if South America and Africarabia never drifted apart?
(Rivers will be added later)
What if South America and Africarabia never drifted apart?
(Rivers will be added later)
Alex Richards
Donor
Only just found a decent map I'm afraid.
Truly awe-inspiring.
A few questions:
So provinces and counties, I assume, are about the same thing, parts of the world-raj with direct representation in Parliament?
What are "Palatine counties?" I have heard of knights Palatine of the HRE, which usually held wee little territories, but I imagine this isn't quite the same. I see you also have "Palatine zones" and "Palatine vassals", so I expect this will be complicated...
What's the political difference between "autonomous vassal" and "autonomous province."
Are "directly controlled" areas held by the Crown colony-style, or do they have some form of representation?
Is a "Mediate" vassal a vassal of a vassal?
Do the colors aside from the various shades of red/pink have any significance besides allowing keeping track of states spread out between multiple locations?
Well, historically, some counties or palatine counties were "upgraded" as duchies but it was essentially cosmetic. I'm under the impression it might be somewhat similar with palatine zones and territories, but Alex_Richards may have another idea about his own map
I suspect that "autonomous vassals" are principalties that beneficy from an even more independent policy (at least on paper) compared to other autonomous territories, a bit like princly states.
I'm puzzled myself, tough, by the use of "Pays d'Etat" for such territories in the Crown of France tough : provincial estates implied direct royal control over a region historically, quite the contrary than what seems to be depicted on this map.
OK, essentially there's going to be the Imperial Parliament, and within that two 'spheres' so to speak, the Colonial sphere, which'll basically be Colonies with various levels of self government and protectorates/Princely States (of which Iceland's basically the only bit shown so far), and the 'feudal' (not so much in governance but as a shorthand) sphere which is almost done (Ukraine/Volga/maybe Anatolia being the last bits) which is more complex.
For the colonial sphere, only Dominions have representation in the Imperial parliament, everything else is moving towards that point gradually. The Rulers of Protectorates may be granted representation in the Imperial House of Lords in some cases.
For the Feudal sphere, each 'Crown' has representation in the ImParl, Autonomous vassals are represented in the Imperial HoL rather than in their local House of Lords.
Each Crown has, essentially, three levels:
-Direct Rule: Provinces which are directly under the authority of that Crown's Parliament, but always have their own legislatures with significantly more autonomy than OTLs County Councils.
-Autonomous Provinces: Represented in Parliament and the ruler is guaranteed a privelidged position in the HoL along with various other perks, has more autonomy than a usual province (e.g. might have militia rights, minting rights etc.)
-Autonomous Vassals- Owe their allegiance to the monarch only, effectively Princely State level independence but get representation in the Imperal HoL as part of a vote-packing procedure.
Names are essentially local flavour- the 'Autonomous Vassal' level might be termed a County Palatine in England, or a 'mediate vassal' in the HREmpire (I'll have to change it for France) or a Palatine territory elsewhere but have essentially the same relationship. The distinction between Palatine Territories and County Palatines is simply that within the British Isles essentially only the latter were ever created whereas elsewhere the same status might be granted to other entities rather than just Counts.
Any other colours in the key are just to distinguish detached territories.
I'm aiming to have Europe done, neatened up and with a smarter key by Christmas BTW.
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