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Beedok, about your K map, I have a few questions. Why did you decide to put the two Koreas together on one planet? It it because they see themselves as the One True Korea? Also where is Kosovo on that map, did you miss it?
Yes, as both Koreas claim the other state entirely it's basically one country with two governments. I really should have put Taiwan in with China for the Cs, but most people accept it as a separate nation.

Kosovo is going to be sticking to the general 'breakaways go along for the ride' system that everong but Taiwan has followed.
 
How come Planet K had no refounded US? there is a large US military presence in Korea to do the job.
28K isn't enough to start a country with a proportion willing to wander off. That and they got hit really bad in the initial fighting after the event. Most survivors were wounded to some level and so in no shape to colonise new lands.
 

Red Orm

Banned
Whelp, here it is. My first paint.net map. I didn't look at any tutorials or anything, just starting clicking around and set myself a goal: OTL Roman Republic around 110 BC, sans non-Italian allies like Rhodes and Bithynia. I didn't try to make it pretty or anything, spent only ten minutes on it. I think I'll be looking at tutorials since this looks like shit, but before I do, do any of you have any advice that might not be in any guide or youtube video? Thanks in advance for all help.

cl1fjSP.png
 
Geez, I get all the tl;dr for you to read ;)

I like it? It's an interesting subversion of the usual "things continue as now, only more so", and I liked the part where the Japanese have turned their demographic decline around so sharply that they are now exporting people to the Philippines (as they say, projecting demographic trends out more than a couple generations is a fools game), and it's a nice recognition of the fact that Africa has actually been picking up economically of late, which many people seem to miss.

A few questions:

How did Indonesia come to occupy Australia?
Why haven't the neighbors been able to restore order to interior Arabia?
What goes on with Turkey and Kurdistan?

Quibbles: current projections are that global warming is going to hit North Africa and the Middle East pretty hard, this may be overoptimistic about the area. And an actual occupation of Russia? Unless it happens at least a generation or more from now, I'd have to say unlikely: we're still a long way technologically from a sufficiently complete defense from nuclear attacks. (By "sufficiently complete", I mean that if you stop 90% of 1,000 nuclear weapons heading your way, you're still pretty screwed).
 
A map I started to make on a bit of a whim, so the backstory is a bit bare. I'm working on adding a legend for the alliances and points of interest.

Details:
America, Brazil and the Republic of South China form the Manhattan Pact. Brazil is a junior partner, but still has a lot of pull with Washington. The Far Eastern Republic is an American puppet state.

The British Entente is still soldiering on. Free France fights on from its colonies, hoping to one day retake the homeland, while the Kingdom of North China wants to prove that they are the ones that have the Mandate of Heaven. The rump Ottoman and Iberian Empires stick with the British only out of fear of the HRE.

Speaking of that gray blob, it's not exactly a Germany, but a Holy Roman Empire that fulfills the empire part. They lead the Nationalist Pact, which includes the Australasian National Union and the Union Of South Africa.

The Communist world does not have a clear leader with the fall of the USSR, but the Turkish People's Union, the People's Republic of China, and the Democratic People's Republic of India are the big players.

America wank.png
 

Dorozhand

Banned
Thereby explaining all those violent revolts in the US and Canada since 1865

The US as it was IOTL is not destiny. It is something that circumstance allowed but as easily could have broken or destroyed. Saying that the rise of the US as the dominant power in the Americas was inevitable is like saying that every timeline is destined to have Europe dominating the globe for a few centuries. Political, international and domestic circumstances alered and the dominance of the US could have been ended, before it began or after. One can only predict in hindsight what the future really holds.
 
The US as it was IOTL is not destiny. It is something that circumstance allowed but as easily could have broken or destroyed. Saying that the rise of the US as the dominant power in the Americas was inevitable is like saying that every timeline is destined to have Europe dominating the globe for a few centuries. Political, international and domestic circumstances alered and the dominance of the US could have been ended, before it began or after. One can only predict in hindsight what the future really holds.
After 1865 why wouldn't it be inevitable, more or less? Perhaps not guaranteed, but after the defeat of the CSA the US stood as a totally uncontested power in all the Americas that could, at will, summon the largest army and navy on Earth (even if not the best trained). It had a continent's worth of resources that was virtually untapped, high population growth rate, was on good terms with the major powers of the day (there's a reason the UK wouldn't back the CSA in OTL), and a massive industrialized economy that was a rival to the British and, later, the German Empire. There's no real reason that the US wouldn't become at least a major power if not superpower because nothing could really threaten it. The only power with the naval reach was a friend who the US allied consistently with to this day (UK) and everyone else couldn't realistically touch actual American soil. Before 1865, maybe it'd be different, but post-1865 there is no real reason the US wouldn't be a domestically peaceful (compared to everyone else) world player outside some sort of self-inflicted idiocy like attacking the British or another civil war, neither of which came even close to happening IOTL.
 
The US as it was IOTL is not destiny. It is something that circumstance allowed but as easily could have broken or destroyed. Saying that the rise of the US as the dominant power in the Americas was inevitable is like saying that every timeline is destined to have Europe dominating the globe for a few centuries. Political, international and domestic circumstances alered and the dominance of the US could have been ended, before it began or after. One can only predict in hindsight what the future really holds.

As it was IOTL, true enough. But there are reasons it turned out the way it did: history is not a succession of random coin-flips, and the US becoming a superpower wasn't just the result of an improbably long row of "heads". And some variants are likelier than others: there were a lot of forces in US culture, politics, economics, ethnic divisions, etc. that made a successful Red Revolution in the early 20th century quite unlikely, all else being the same before then. If you have your POD as late as WWI, and have the US go Red as a result of a failed war in Mexico, that is simply implausible. It may be tolerable in this case because it makes for a nice map, but in the case of an actual TL it would be picked to pieces by people around here. Handwaving a major and unlikely change is frankly a bit of an insult to the hard-working timeline
builders here. [1]

Edit: to clarify, it's OK to handwave if you make it clear that you're just following Rule of Cool or something and shouldn't take it too seriously. Quite a lot of, say, rvbomally's GrimDark scenarios are just having fun with some sort of unlikely parallelism and should not incite ire.

[1] Such as Jello Biafra, whose Red America I don't find entirely convincing, but who put an impressive amount of work into the effort.
 
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I like it? It's an interesting subversion of the usual "things continue as now, only more so", and I liked the part where the Japanese have turned their demographic decline around so sharply that they are now exporting people to the Philippines (as they say, projecting demographic trends out more than a couple generations is a fools game), and it's a nice recognition of the fact that Africa has actually been picking up economically of late, which many people seem to miss.

A few questions:

1) How did Indonesia come to occupy Australia?
2) Why haven't the neighbors been able to restore order to interior Arabia?
3) What goes on with Turkey and Kurdistan?

Quibbles: current projections are that global warming is going to hit North Africa and the Middle East pretty hard, this may be overoptimistic about the area. And an actual occupation of Russia? Unless it happens at least a generation or more from now, I'd have to say unlikely: we're still a long way technologically from a sufficiently complete defense from nuclear attacks. (By "sufficiently complete", I mean that if you stop 90% of 1,000 nuclear weapons heading your way, you're still pretty screwed).

Thanks, I do intend to subvert many tropes. I just thought, what if Japan can be anything other then cyberpunk dystopia which then crumbles to dust? So I decided to have it systematically de-Meiji-fied. While England takes the mantle of robotized dystopia. Under an Indian corporation.

And then I just threw bunch of other stuff in :openedeyewink:

1) Indonesia came to occupy Australia only after the later fell into decades of warlordism after having a particularly bad right wing caudillo episode. It basically became a Congo, with much less resources. Indonesia didn't come until like 3 decades, after deciding to have enough of Australian criminals and refugees and being enticed by the prospect of new lands for population excesses, which is not an entirely rational point, but basically it was the victory of patriot faction's maneuvering and propaganda and it was the trigger to the rise of open naval activism. Indonesian politics is heading towards interesting times.

2) It's a giant unhabitable desert.

On Russia it was occupied by Sino-European coallition on the behalf of the reigning FSB regime which was already crumbling.

3) A temporary success of HDP-like multiculturalism, but nowadays buttresting on Islam-lite and efficient "neutral" bureaucracy run by diviners, genetically modified humans with superhuman intelligence and memory capacity as well as nearly inhuman empathy for society.
Yeah I'm still a Turkophile. :p
 
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Dorozhand

Banned
After 1865 why wouldn't it be inevitable, more or less? Perhaps not guaranteed, but after the defeat of the CSA the US stood as a totally uncontested power in all the Americas that could, at will, summon the largest army and navy on Earth (even if not the best trained). It had a continent's worth of resources that was virtually untapped, high population growth rate, was on good terms with the major powers of the day (there's a reason the UK wouldn't back the CSA in OTL), and a massive industrialized economy that was a rival to the British and, later, the German Empire. There's no real reason that the US wouldn't become at least a major power if not superpower because nothing could really threaten it. The only power with the naval reach was a friend who the US allied consistently with to this day (UK) and everyone else couldn't realistically touch actual American soil. Before 1865, maybe it'd be different, but post-1865 there is no real reason the US wouldn't be a domestically peaceful (compared to everyone else) world player outside some sort of self-inflicted idiocy like attacking the British or another civil war, neither of which came even close to happening IOTL.
True enough, but the US was also an extremely dysfunctional state socially. The south was an economic mess with a huge unrepresented underclass living in many cases in virtual slavery, the industrial north had ethno-religious tensions, significant corruption and was a mess of bad working conditions plaguing a highly dissatisfied urban working class, the prairie had problems with underdevelopment, isolation, and poverty, and the coastal west had simmering ethnic tensions like the east. I see in the First World War era US the potential for major problems if an event or series of events occurred in the right ways to set it off. In this case, economic collapse brought on by chaos in Latin America and general disruption of world trade following the dysfunctional partial end of war in Europe and the rise of Communism throughout the world following collapse of colonial regimes. That the US was actually losing the war in Mexico right while the economy went through the basement and socialist sympathy was high resulted in the conditions for insurrection in the northern cities and total social rupture of the twisted south. Essentially, the colonial-by-any-other-name stranglehold the US had on Latin America blew up in its face like the colonial regimes of the European states had.

Mexico is the key to the scenario, in that it performed better than expected by far. The country changed drastically in such a short time due to a radically successful alternate 1917 Constitution which essentially built Cardenas' state a generation early, which was in large part the aim of the Zapatistas. Having defeated Carranza and put the rest Mexico's social woes once and for all with the reintroduction of the Ejido system and the liberation of the Hacienda serfs, and something similar to the NEP in the cities, the few years between the conclusion of the revolution and the beginning of the Second Mexican-American War was a time of great reform and construction. Villa, a fairly brilliant military organizer and a brilliant tactician as Secretary of War under a Zapata government is a powerful combination and the Zapatistas, Villistas, and those who joined their cause after the victory is a powerful pool of military talent that would undoubtedly make Mexico a tougher nut to crack even despite population difference, especially considering that the US Army (with neutrality in a rather short First World War) wasn't in the most fantastic shape at the time. Mexico, a united country with a fast-growing economy and a newly enlarged army, against a disunited US with an economy just beginning to wither and a populace not really willing to wage total war, a bit like what happened with the Russo-Japanese War. Once the total war phase of the conflict had set in the fire had already started and the US was crippled with its own problems.

This timeline I would define as an interesting edge-case where something unexpected occurred under unique circumstances, but to a degree every timeline is like that in some places and some times.
 

Dorozhand

Banned
One thing to consider is that the revolutionary happenings in the US began spontaneously and were only really organized later on. Civil war only began when the army, brought up from bloody and demoralized fighting in Mexico was called in to restore order and ruptured along the seams with desertion and defection. From there other social dominoes fell, and the reds were the ones most visibly egging the whole thing on while around them the rebellions began to orbit only after rebellion had begun.

Yet another thing to consider is that, even though there were reasons the British Raj lasted as long as it did and didn't break up nearly as violently or chaotically as it could have, it still could have given the right circumstances. The conditions I put the US in, I think, back the country in the right corners, towards an evolutionary pattern that leads to socio-political self-destruction similar to the corner the German state was backed in with OTL's First World War.
 
Dorozhand, it's not just the US: your whole TL, frankly, is peppered with highly improbable stuff. I could fill pages, but I shall say no more on the subject (Like us all, I am racing towards the grave and must choose on what to spend on my shrinking time).
 
View attachment 283167

So, after that map of the German Empire, I had a bunch of people commenting that I should do more historical scenarios. Well, I heard you, and now you’re getting...modern-day Texas. Okay, so I can explain. I had previously finished a map of Florida ISOTed to a virgin Earth, didn’t like the final result, so I tried it again with Texas, took elements from the Florida map, and threw it all together.

So here we go. The world in 2216, two hundred years after the state of Texas was ISOTed to a virgin Earth.

*awesome stuff*

The 1776 British Empire is next, and yes, Cool-Eh, I fixed Jamaica. Thank you for that. So. Questions? Thoughts? Comments? Criticism?

EDIT: Also, I need ideas for ISOT scenarios. Hit me up with a reply on this thread or a PM or a profile post or something if you have a scenario in mind. I don't do so well with pre-18th century stuff, but anything else, we should be good.


That was really quite good! May i suggest the Austro-Hungarian Empire? Or Scotland, just after the Battle of Bannockburn. (What do you mean I'm a provincialist XD)
 
28K isn't enough to start a country with a proportion willing to wander off. That and they got hit really bad in the initial fighting after the event. Most survivors were wounded to some level and so in no shape to colonise new lands.
I imagine those that remained would be able to be subsumed into the population easilly enough. Plenty of Christians and, even if Korea is homogenous, there are still millions of women around. Bound to be a few thousand who would marry physically fit soldiers who would probably be getting paid by the Korean government for their services. Even if by using whatever the American government or businesses left there.
 

Chicxulub

Banned
EDIT: Also, I need ideas for ISOT scenarios. Hit me up with a reply on this thread or a PM or a profile post or something if you have a scenario in mind. I don't do so well with pre-18th century stuff, but anything else, we should be good.
2016 Canada to either 1914, or a virgin earth.
 
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