Krall
Banned
Ah yes, my lowest moment. Rather embarassing in retrospect - I would like to ask people to take note of this shining example of how *not* to critique maps.
Map Thread IX
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Ah yes, my lowest moment. Rather embarassing in retrospect - I would like to ask people to take note of this shining example of how *not* to critique maps.
Alex Richards
Donor
Ah yes, my lowest moment. Rather embarassing in retrospect - I would like to ask people to take note of this shining example of how *not* to critique maps.
To quote Machiavelli: Tis better to be loved than feared.
Ah yes, my lowest moment. Rather embarassing in retrospect - I would like to ask people to take note of this shining example of how *not* to critique maps.
I honestly find it rather amusing. But I do agree with you that that shouldn't be the way to deal with terrible maps.
Alex Richards
Donor
It's something of a missquote. The title of Chapter XVII of Il Principe is 'Cruelty and Compassion, and whether it is better to be loved than feared, or the reverse', but the first sentance then says 'I say that a prince must want to have a reputation for compassion rather than one for cruelty', though he does express that the chief point is simply to make sure that one is not hated.'
Although I think I've got a somewhat different translation of the above, as mine merely describes love and fear as being 'difficuly to combine'.
EDIT: I think we can agree Machiavelli was trolling his readers with this bit.
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1976.
This is a re-do of one of my older maps for my (now-defunct) timeline, sigged below.
Germany goes socialist after WW1, although think more Scandinavia than USSR (though it's labelled red) though due to tensions with Imperial Rusia (1917 fails) there's a second Great War, which Britain and France stay out of.
Basically Russia tries to re-annex territory it lost during the Great War but just as Lithuania's falling, it declares itself a social democratic state and calls for German aid; Germany, worried that Poland and Czechoslovakia will be next, issues an ultimatum and in 1940 war is declared. It rages for six years, involving poison gas and it's only ended when German bombers based in Finland demonstrate their capacity to reach Russia's trans-Uralian industries. The war ends with most of Eastern Europe under Germany's thumb. They range from Czechoslovakia, which is a democratic-socialist state with elections and a GDP per capita comparable to western Europe, to Romania which is a quasi-Stalinist hell hole supported by German arms.
After the war, fearing German might, France and the Benelux countries formed the Western Entente, a mutual defence pact that evolved into the European Commonwealth, formed in 1967 in Bruges, which bound the nations and their colonial empires together. Decolonisation has taken a different turn; some former-colonies, such as Senegal, have entered the EC as sovereign nations while others, like Cote d'Ivoire and Benin, have remained integral parts of France. Large parts of Africa remained organised Territories, deemed too underdeveloped for full admittance yet still governed by the Commonwealth. British involvement with the EC has flitted from Halifax's entrance of the Western Entente in 1942 to the 1972 Anglo-European split, where the Eurosceptic Labour government left the Entente and broke with the EC in favour of diplomatic rapproachment with Germany and her allies.
Italy remained fascist and formed the Eastern Pact with Bulgaria and Turkey in order to invade Yugoslavia and Greece, which occurred in 1944 while the world's eyes were to the north. The alliance remained together until 1976, when the map is set, and the Balkan Spring. Higher standards of living and German and EC prosperity have inspired a series of risings in eastern Europe. The Turkish junta has fallen, as has the Bulgarian Tsar and the Serbian dictatorship. Now unrest is spreading west, even to Italy itself. Hardship caused by the enormous cost of maintaining Italy's colonial empire have taken their toll and now it seems that fascism is under threat. The question is will the regime go quietly, or will it blame insurrection on German influence and brutally crack down. Only time will tell...
This is a re-do of one of my older maps for my (now-defunct) timeline, sigged below.
Germany goes socialist after WW1, although think more Scandinavia than USSR (though it's labelled red) though due to tensions with Imperial Rusia (1917 fails) there's a second Great War, which Britain and France stay out of.
Basically Russia tries to re-annex territory it lost during the Great War but just as Lithuania's falling, it declares itself a social democratic state and calls for German aid; Germany, worried that Poland and Czechoslovakia will be next, issues an ultimatum and in 1940 war is declared. It rages for six years, involving poison gas and it's only ended when German bombers based in Finland demonstrate their capacity to reach Russia's trans-Uralian industries. The war ends with most of Eastern Europe under Germany's thumb. They range from Czechoslovakia, which is a democratic-socialist state with elections and a GDP per capita comparable to western Europe, to Romania which is a quasi-Stalinist hell hole supported by German arms.
After the war, fearing German might, France and the Benelux countries formed the Western Entente, a mutual defence pact that evolved into the European Commonwealth, formed in 1967 in Bruges, which bound the nations and their colonial empires together. Decolonisation has taken a different turn; some former-colonies, such as Senegal, have entered the EC as sovereign nations while others, like Cote d'Ivoire and Benin, have remained integral parts of France. Large parts of Africa remained organised Territories, deemed too underdeveloped for full admittance yet still governed by the Commonwealth. British involvement with the EC has flitted from Halifax's entrance of the Western Entente in 1942 to the 1972 Anglo-European split, where the Eurosceptic Labour government left the Entente and broke with the EC in favour of diplomatic rapproachment with Germany and her allies.
Italy remained fascist and formed the Eastern Pact with Bulgaria and Turkey in order to invade Yugoslavia and Greece, which occurred in 1944 while the world's eyes were to the north. The alliance remained together until 1976, when the map is set, and the Balkan Spring. Higher standards of living and German and EC prosperity have inspired a series of risings in eastern Europe. The Turkish junta has fallen, as has the Bulgarian Tsar and the Serbian dictatorship. Now unrest is spreading west, even to Italy itself. Hardship caused by the enormous cost of maintaining Italy's colonial empire have taken their toll and now it seems that fascism is under threat. The question is will the regime go quietly, or will it blame insurrection on German influence and brutally crack down. Only time will tell...
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Abhakhazia
Banned
I was going to enter this into the Map of the Fortnight contest, but then decided it's too ASB.
Speaking of Britain, how come they share Cyprus with some state set up by the toppled Turkish government? Or I probably should just read over the timeline though. Might explain the issue with Madeira.
They aren't sharing, the Turkish-supported state is in a state of Rebellion.
wolf_brother
Banned
Hmm... so independent East African federation, independent Indian empire, independent Tibet, and I believe that blue is used for a democratic Chinese color. Interesting. What's the rest of the world like?
That's some impressive Austria-wank. What's the year?
(Heck, as far as I know, yours is the only series with simultaneous French, Austrian, and Prussian wanks)
Bruce
PS - come to think of it, there's a Spain-wank going on too...
Nice scenario: a couple quibbles.
As the RAF found out with Germany, using WWII targeting skillz, it's hard to knock out a country's wartime industry [1]: the main reason the Soviets moved industries to the Urals and east was to keep Germans from actually walking into them, not fear of bombers. Why not have the Germans develop the atom bomb in 1946? Without the Nazi exile of scientists, they're in a better position to do so.
Compare to fascistic movements, the Communist movement in Romania OTL was fairly weak, and required Soviet occupation to impose their rule: I don't think being militarily overrun a couple times is going to bring them to power, and I doubt Social-Democratic Germany would put a bunch of actual Stalinists in power. Does Romania get horribly chewed to pieces in the war to the extent where the traditional leadership loses all credibility and social order entirely collapses? Cause I can't see anything else doing the trick.
Bruce
[1] Especially if you lack true air dominance. I suspect 1940s Russia could compete pretty favorably with Germany in terms of number of planes built, especially compared to Nazi Germany vs the US and UK and USSR.
As the RAF found out with Germany, using WWII targeting skillz, it's hard to knock out a country's wartime industry [1]: the main reason the Soviets moved industries to the Urals and east was to keep Germans from actually walking into them, not fear of bombers. Why not have the Germans develop the atom bomb in 1946? Without the Nazi exile of scientists, they're in a better position to do so.
Compare to fascistic movements, the Communist movement in Romania OTL was fairly weak, and required Soviet occupation to impose their rule: I don't think being militarily overrun a couple times is going to bring them to power, and I doubt Social-Democratic Germany would put a bunch of actual Stalinists in power. Does Romania get horribly chewed to pieces in the war to the extent where the traditional leadership loses all credibility and social order entirely collapses? Cause I can't see anything else doing the trick.
Bruce
[1] Especially if you lack true air dominance. I suspect 1940s Russia could compete pretty favorably with Germany in terms of number of planes built, especially compared to Nazi Germany vs the US and UK and USSR.
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Its currently the 1870s, just after the collapse of the Kingdom of Brasil with some nudging from the from Dorada (the big-ass Rio de la Plata) and the Iberian Union.
It took quite a lot to engineer those three states into relative equality. Believe me when things kick off in the 1890s, fur will fly.
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